My 1st vinyl experience

[Vladimir]

Half my post gone missing. Nevermind.

I was saying that it doesn't matter how great the player is since it cannot surpass the limitations of the media. No turntable can be more accurate than any CDP because of the limitations of vinyl. Invest milions in it with laser guidance and hydraulics and whatever, it will still be playing a $2 poorly smashed bit of plastic.

On the other end have the cheapest ASDA CDP and play a well mastered and well recorded music on CD, it will be superior in all possible ways. This is not because the player is so well made, it's the media.

I take your point but only up to a point. The term 'well recorded' when it comes to a lot of CDs is a misnomer these days which is why I prefer most on well mastered and well pressed vinyl.

You tend to get a lot more idea on the quality when reading into the making of a particular LP, there is little info on the actual quality of a CD and, quite a bit recently, I have felt that I have wasted my money on CDs.

If you are a pop/rock/hiphop/metal/rnb/edm fan then yes. But classical (including contemporary), jazz, world music, ambient, minimal and few other electronica genres, all generally have no loudness compression or production heavy on effects and overdubbing.

The former is not music for critical listening or for picky refined listeners. They are the gourmet equivalent of a gas station sandwich or chocolate bar you buy at the cash register. Which is why I'm a bit confused when I read how someone invests in quality hi-fi gear only to listen to music made to sound good only on lo-fi devices and not with a critical ear (just something to hum on your way to school or work). And then they complain how it sounds poor on their system and if this cable or DAC will help. No wonder people go back to lower resolution devices and iron out the nasty bits in their music. That music was made to sound good on less accurate gear and if I add a turntable, valve amp and colored FR speakers I can get that effect, yet remain in the hobby zone.

 

[MeanandGreen]

and insults on here really doesn't it.

I must be be a hipster and after 23 years of being a music lover and a Hi Fi enthusiast I obviously have no clue as I am happy with a budget, no sorry 'hipster' turntable. To suggest that people need to be spending thousands of pounds just to get listenable vinyl playback is ludicrous.

I have a few good digital sources which I can compare to my turntable. They sound better (not by much) when level matched and I put that purely down to the format not the equipment. Digital is a superior media we all know the flaws of vinyl. I couldn't disagree more with the notion that an entry level Pro-Ject or Rega isn't good enough for someone wanting to get into the format.

It's like saying an RS Ford isn't good enough to be a drivers car, you have to be spending Porsche or Ferrari money to get any kind of drivers enjoyment. Utter b@ll@cks!

I have owned a fair amount of kit, I've mixed & matched all sorts. I've spent a long time with my current 2 setups and I know my own music collection well enough to have a very good idea of what is accurate to my ears. Budget or hipster decks are not at all bad they shouldn't be immediately dismissed as not worthy. They can produce a very convincing presentation of the music I have been enjoying all of my life.

I detest stuck up opinions. We are talking about listening to music here, there is no elite club which people have to join to be able to enjoy music.

 

[Vladimir]

CD is more clinical, but I'll never understand how a series of ones and noughts can contain the emotions and subtleties in recorded music, it can't.

This reminds me of the time when HDTV was introduced. All hosts and their guests panicked when they saw how exposing HDTV was. Suddenly all skin wrinkles, michelin belly tires, roughly applied make up, badly dyed hair, cartboard studio scenography, everything became more ugly and noticable compared to good old 640x480 resolution of CRT TV. HD was amazing for macro shots on National Geographic, but morning shows and news looked terrible untill they figured out how to use better make up, softer lights, younger hosts, spend more time at the dermatologist, the gym etc.

This happened earlier with HD photography, but thanks to Photoshop it wasn't such a crisis like live television.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

CD is more clinical, but I'll never understand how a series of ones and noughts can contain the emotions and subtleties in recorded music, it can't.

This reminds me of the time when HDTV was introduced. All hosts and their guests panicked when they saw how exposing HDTV was. Suddenly all skin wrinkles, michelin belly tires, roughly applied make up, badly dyed hair, cartboard studio scenography, everything became more ugly and noticable compared to good old 640x480 resolution of CRT TV. HD was amazing for macro shots on National Geographic, but morning shows and news looked terrible untill they figured out how to use better make up, softer lights, younger hosts, spend more time at the dermatologist, the gym etc.

This happened earlier with HD photography, but thanks to Photoshop it wasn't such a crisis like live television.

Nice story, but you didn't enlighten me on how a series of numbers can contain real emotion.

 

[MeanandGreen]

CD is more clinical, but I'll never understand how a series of ones and noughts can contain the emotions and subtleties in recorded music, it can't.

This reminds me of the time when HDTV was introduced. All hosts and their guests panicked when they saw how exposing HDTV was. Suddenly all skin wrinkles, michelin belly tires, roughly applied make up, badly dyed hair, cartboard studio scenography, everything became more ugly and noticable compared to good old 640x480 resolution of CRT TV. HD was amazing for macro shots on National Geographic, but morning shows and news looked terrible untill they figured out how to use better make up, softer lights, younger hosts, spend more time at the dermatologist, the gym etc.

This happened earlier with HD photography, but thanks to Photoshop it wasn't such a crisis like live television.

Nice story, but you didn't enlighten me on how a series of numbers can contain real emotion.

Those binary numbers represent an analogue waveform (music).

No emotion or subtleties are lost with digital.

 

[Vladimir]

CD is more clinical, but I'll never understand how a series of ones and noughts can contain the emotions and subtleties in recorded music, it can't.

This reminds me of the time when HDTV was introduced. All hosts and their guests panicked when they saw how exposing HDTV was. Suddenly all skin wrinkles, michelin belly tires, roughly applied make up, badly dyed hair, cartboard studio scenography, everything became more ugly and noticable compared to good old 640x480 resolution of CRT TV. HD was amazing for macro shots on National Geographic, but morning shows and news looked terrible untill they figured out how to use better make up, softer lights, younger hosts, spend more time at the dermatologist, the gym etc.

This happened earlier with HD photography, but thanks to Photoshop it wasn't such a crisis like live television.

Nice story, but you didn't enlighten me on how a series of numbers can contain real emotion.

You are such a romantic. I have no chance against that, but if you are genuinly interested the connection is there.

 

[plastic penguin]

PP, I wouldn't bother if I were you. Enjoy what you can afford.

Dave is talking about TTs like his old SME (and similar exotica that he has owned and sold as a dealer) and he is right about their capabilities to create vast, holographic sound spaces that can even stretch behind the listener's head (even beyond the room) with a properly chosen system. I have witnessed it just once or twice and know what's possible with a few tens of thousands of pounds (that was early 1980s £s) spent on something from Oracle and Koetsu played through Audio Research and Krell's finest.

Whereas I survived (and continued to derive much pleasure from far more prosaic gear) Dave's 'bar' has remained permanently stuck very high and a budget deck will never do it for him.

I do.

Like you, I aspire to the exotica but unlikely to achieve anything that'll come close. As I pointed out earlier that cheap is cheap regardless. As Animesh was talking about a cheapo TT from Richer, it makes Dave's comments even more confusing.

 

[iMark]

I really enjoy listening to well recorded music. It comes in all shapes and sizes. I have inherited hundreds of great LPs with classical music. Many of them sound very good on our system. But they don't sound better than CD's of the same recordings. There is simply no way that vinyl playback can reproduce the original recording as well as a CD.

Because a lot of modern CDs are very poorly mastered, LPs of the same recording (but a different master) sound better. It actually should be the other way round because of the limitations of LPs. The LPs that I transfer to the computer sound better with a bit of noise filtering and crack and pop removal.

I don't know who perpetuated the myth that CDs, the bit rates etc aren't good enough. I have wonderful sounding classical music recordings from the 'early' digital age. There is no tape hiss and other distortion. Some say this is 'clinical' and less 'musical'.

LPs are overrated, CDs are underrated.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I'm afraid I disagree with the notion of cd replay being inherently better than vinyl, it's a case of how much your willing to spend, my turntable system is easily giving my cd5i a run for it's money with more to come when I get a good mc cart.Some of the new 180grm vinyl pressings sound better than the cd rubbish that they're releasing these days . Anyway the whole point is being missed, Viny is a lovely format to sit down and listen to properly, no skipping back and forth between tracks, the wipe down of the record, the album artwork and the pride of ownership, OK some can't be bothered with all that, but I think it makes listening to music more involving and precious, unlike throwaway mp3's and "who cares if you got that cd". My sister in law was over for Christmas last week and couldn't care less about my cd collection, but when I started playing first pressing of Nirvana's "nevermind" among others she was holding the covers just staring at them with a nod and a smile, nostalgia, cd, mp3 just can't come close.

 

[MajorFubar]

I'm afraid I disagree with the notion of cd replay being inherently better than vinyl, it's a case of how much your willing to spend,

No that's not the case. You can enjoy records all you like, in fact you're preaching to the converted (even though I didn't ever need converting, I pre-date digital by over a decade), but vinyl as a medium is compromised at every turn. From a technical perspective there is nothing records do better than CDs. None of that really matters if you prefer the sound of records, but don't kid yourself that if you throw enough money at it you'll somehow overcome the technical shortcomings.

 

[Covenanter]

I'm afraid I disagree with the notion of cd replay being inherently better than vinyl, it's a case of how much your willing to spend, my turntable system is easily giving my cd5i a run for it's money with more to come when I get a good mc cart.Some of the new 180grm vinyl pressings sound better than the cd rubbish that they're releasing these days . Anyway the whole point is being missed, Viny is a lovely format to sit down and listen to properly, no skipping back and forth between tracks, the wipe down of the record, the album artwork and the pride of ownership, OK some can't be bothered with all that, but I think it makes listening to music more involving and precious, unlike throwaway mp3's and "who cares if you got that cd". My sister in law was over for Christmas last week and couldn't care less about my cd collection, but when I started playing first pressing of Nirvana's "nevermind" among others she was holding the covers just staring at them with a nod and a smile, nostalgia, cd, mp3 just can't come close.

Absolute nonsense I'm afraid. Vinyl is inherently distorted, that's not an opinion but a fact. You might like the sound of it but it just means you like distortion. You are not alone in that, many people like it, but it is distortion.

Chris

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Oh dear, here comes cd's best crew to kick my behind. Sh##ing myself I am.

 

[Covenanter]

Oh dear, here comes cd's best crew to kick my behind. Sh##ing myself I am.

No need to get aggravated! Facts are facts. Vinyl brings distorted sound, it's inherent in the medium. There's nothing wrong with you liking it though. Just don't pretend it's not what it is.

Chris

 

[Vladimir]

It's also low resolution. 13bit if ideal.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Obviously a first time vinyl buyer starting off with an entry level Rega or Project is a hipster. But what if someone were to buy a record player costing over a grand? Or one of those Linn LP12 thingies? Would they still be considered a hipster?

Am I now a hipster for having just bought a Technics record player? And does using it with a cheap Behringer phono stage, a cartridge that's popular with DJ's and one of silly Technics branded slipmats make me more or less of a hipster?

Yes. *biggrin*

 

[Vladimir]

Vinyl hipster here and lovin' it *biggrin*

Obviously a first time vinyl buyer starting off with an entry level Rega or Project is a hipster. But what if someone were to buy a record player costing over a grand? Or one of those Linn LP12 thingies? Would they still be considered a hipster?

Am I now a hipster for having just bought a Technics record player? And does using it with a cheap Behringer phono stage, a cartridge that's popular with DJ's and one of silly Technics branded slipmats make me more or less of a hipster?

If you bought it in an ironic way you are a hipster. If you are genuinly interested in TTs and LPs then you are not.

 

[steve_1979]

*unknw*

 

[steve_1979]

Vinyl hipster here and lovin' it *biggrin*

Obviously a first time vinyl buyer starting off with an entry level Rega or Project is a hipster. But what if someone were to buy a record player costing over a grand? Or one of those Linn LP12 thingies? Would they still be considered a hipster?

Am I now a hipster for having just bought a Technics record player? And does using it with a cheap Behringer phono stage, a cartridge that's popular with DJ's and one of those silly Technics branded slipmats make me more or less of a hipster?

 

[Vladimir]

I strugle with the concept myself. I wouldn't worry about it as long as it makes me crank up a tune.

If you bought "a nice wooden turntable" I would be worried though.

 

[Freddy58]

I don't think there's much doubt that CD's are capable of producing sounds that vinyl can't. One listen to any Telarc disc will confirm this, 'Timewarp', for instance. I see the word "distortion" used with regards to vinyl. Well, if there is distortion, I don't hear it, so I guess it's something that can be measured, or my hearing is bad. There are obviously lots of benefits with CD's (or digital, if you prefer), no scratches, pops, ease of storage to name a few. During quiet passages CD's are obviously much better, no argument there.

Which do I prefer? Well, from purely a musical sense, vinyl. It, to me, just seems more rythmic, vital, given the nature of music. Of course, it needs to be well recorded and mastered. Vinyl can sound stunning, even on my relatively meagre set-up. A half-decent cartridge and phono stage is key here.

Not sure what the term 'hipster' is supposed to convey. I'm guessing it's someone who buys a T/T for fashionable reasons, in which case price doesn't have much to do with it, if one has the money.

I suppose the bulk of my listening is in digital form, purely from a convenience point of view, but for serious listening, vinyl all the way *smile*

 

[Vladimir]

I couldn't give a damn about fashion.* In real life I'm so uncool that the cool kids at work actually think I'm cool. I kid you not.

They think you are cool in an ironic way (hipsters). You are a classical geek (you think military spec turntable is cool). It needs wood to have a soul Steve!!!!!

 

[Vladimir]

I thought you had a beatbox.

 

[Freddy58]

I thought you had a beatbox.

Nah, that's for Dave's benefit

 

[steve_1979]

I couldn't give a damn about fashion.* In real life I'm so uncool that the cool kids at work actually think I'm cool. I kid you not.

They think you are cool in an ironic way (hipsters). You are a classical geek (you think military spec turntable is cool). It needs wood to have a soul Steve!!!!!

OMG! I'm a hipster and I didn't even know it.

*dance4*

 

[MajorFubar]

Oh dear, here comes cd's best crew to kick my behind. Sh##ing myself I am.

This is an argument from the 1980s not now. Think you need to get over it.