Musical Fidelity M3i amp - damping factor 36 - critical?

[Chaloff]

Hi all,

Recently have replaced my cheap mediaplayer with Oppo 105 . Next step is integrated amp.

Thinking about MF M6i, but it's too expensive. As an option considering M3i. Main difference in them as I see is the power output, which is more than enough for me with M3.

But! I found in specs that M3i's damping factor is only 36. Have read some day that theoretically the DF for decent hi-fi must start from 20, and does not have to be high. But this is in theory.

Has anybody had experience to audition M3i, paying attention to how it grips speakers?

Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[iJoe]

Interesting, my old X-80 has a dampening factor of 77. I believe the importance of it depends on the sensitivity of your speakers.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi all,

Recently have replaced my cheap mediaplayer with Oppo 105 . Next step is integrated amp.

Thinking about MF M6i, but it's too expensive. As an option considering M3i. Main difference in them as I see is the power output, which is more than enough for me with M3.

But! I found in specs that M3i's damping factor is only 36. Have read some day that theoretically the DF for decent hi-fi must start from 20, and does not have to be high. But this is in theory.

Has anybody had experience to audition M3i, paying attention to how it grips speakers?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Gawd.

Please don't waste your time with paper specs. A couple of people on here have the M3i and say it's wonderful. My advice is just to listen to it and decide for yourself whether it's good, bad or indifferent. If it sounds great to your ears then the DF has no real bearing.

 

[BigH]

The M3i should be a good upgrade from your NAD, I heard it with KEF LS50s and it was fine, for CM1s it should good also.

 

[toyota man]

Hi all,

Recently have replaced my cheap mediaplayer with Oppo 105 . Next step is integrated amp.

Thinking about MF M6i, but it's too expensive. As an option considering M3i. Main difference in them as I see is the power output, which is more than enough for me with M3.

But! I found in specs that M3i's damping factor is only 36. Have read some day that theoretically the DF for decent hi-fi must start from 20, and does not have to be high. But this is in theory.

Has anybody had experience to audition M3i, paying attention to how it grips speakers?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Hi Chaloff another forum member El Hefe has done a review of the M6i in which he speaks very highley of the M3i having had one one dem I liked the M3i but the M6i has a bigger sound stage and had a good grip of the music I am sure you will love the M3i If I was you I would read El Hefe's review

 

[Rethep]

I heard someone say a low dampingfactor gives good sound! Then you need impedancefriendly speakers of course, and of good sensitivety! Anyway a dampingfactor of 10 or 20 is already very good. Maybe a too high damping factor can kill your sound ? But then again i am a fan of tubesound.

 

[Overdose]

But! I found in specs that M3i's damping factor is only 36. Have read some day that theoretically the DF for decent hi-fi must start from 20, and does not have to be high. But this is in theory.

Has anybody had experience to audition M3i, paying attention to how it grips speakers?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Damping factor explained.

The amps in the link have a high damping factor.

 

[Chaloff]

Well, friends, thank you very much indeed for all your helpful comments and ideas.

I am affraid I need to forget for a while (or maybe for good) about M3i. Yesterday night I found a problem with my new set-up. When listening to music with extremely low volume the sound jumped considerably at places where melody raised up. The jump was about twice higher. I had not had this problem entirely before with my mediaplayer which was replaced by Oppo. The only bad thing had been that it was sometimes not too easy to adjust very low volume with NAD, but once I did this after a three or four seconds adjustment, the sound did not skip uncontrolled.

I dream to trust that this is not purely the problem of Oppo, but the problem of compatibility of the player, amp and the speakers. Will try to find time to replace NAD with Onkyo CD reciever using it as an amp. If that does not help I'd post a new thread asking for an advice.

I guess the problem is in the amp now. So probably, after figuring it out I would need to find an amp which has a long run volume control.

But still if somebody has an idea about this issue - I'll be very thankful.

Cheers to all!

 

[davedotco]

A few slightly random thoughts.

For once PP is 100% correct, if the bass sounds tight enough for what you want then the DF is sufficient, no problem.

From a personal viewpoint I like the bass to be really tight, any hint of looseness or overhang just will not do. I have never quantified this effect but I think, everything else being equal, I would probably prefer amps with a 'high' DF.

If you want to know how strong this effect is, try the following....

Disconnect one of your speakers from the amp so there are no wires or links on the terminals. Carefully and symetrically push the speaker cone in and out in a pistonic manner, ie move the whole cone/coil assembly as one, do not just flex the cone. Note how easily the cone moves in and out.

Now, connect a piece of wire between the speaker (or bass speaker) terminals and then try pushing the cone, you should find the resistance to movement to be much higher, the cone is much more tightly controlled.

An amplifier with a very high DF will have an output impedance that is almost as low as a length of wire, try it and see.

 

[BigH]

Well, friends, thank you very much indeed for all your helpful comments and ideas.

I am affraid I need to forget for a while (or maybe for good) about M3i. Yesterday night I found a problem with my new set-up. When listening to music with extremely low volume the sound jumped considerably at places where melody raised up. The jump was about twice higher. I had not had this problem entirely before with my mediaplayer which was replaced by Oppo. The only bad thing had been that it was sometimes not too easy to adjust very low volume with NAD, but once I did this after a three or four seconds adjustment, the sound did not skip uncontrolled.

I dream to trust that this is not purely the problem of Oppo, but the problem of compatibility of the player, amp and the speakers. Will try to find time to replace NAD with Onkyo CD reciever using it as an amp. If that does not help I'd post a new thread asking for an advice.

I guess the problem is in the amp now. So probably, after figuring it out I would need to find an amp which has a long run volume control.

But still if somebody has an idea about this issue - I'll be very thankful.

Cheers to all!

Sounds like you need some attenuators, that will reduce the volume so you can increase the volume on the ampflier if you see what I mean, Im sure Dave will know more about them than I do.

 

[davedotco]

Well, friends, thank you very much indeed for all your helpful comments and ideas.

I am affraid I need to forget for a while (or maybe for good) about M3i. Yesterday night I found a problem with my new set-up. When listening to music with extremely low volume the sound jumped considerably at places where melody raised up. The jump was about twice higher. I had not had this problem entirely before with my mediaplayer which was replaced by Oppo. The only bad thing had been that it was sometimes not too easy to adjust very low volume with NAD, but once I did this after a three or four seconds adjustment, the sound did not skip uncontrolled.

I dream to trust that this is not purely the problem of Oppo, but the problem of compatibility of the player, amp and the speakers. Will try to find time to replace NAD with Onkyo CD reciever using it as an amp. If that does not help I'd post a new thread asking for an advice.

I guess the problem is in the amp now. So probably, after figuring it out I would need to find an amp which has a long run volume control.

But still if somebody has an idea about this issue - I'll be very thankful.

Cheers to all!

Sounds like you need some attenuators, that will reduce the volume so you can increase the volume on the ampflier if you see what I mean, Im sure Dave will know more about them than I do.

Not even sure what the problem is, let alone the solution.

Furthermore I have no idea what an 'Oppo' is, I am guessing some kind of universal player but I have not been in the market for any kind of (hi-fi) disc players for nearly 15yrs. Does it not have an output level control?

 

[BigH]

Well, friends, thank you very much indeed for all your helpful comments and ideas.

I am affraid I need to forget for a while (or maybe for good) about M3i. Yesterday night I found a problem with my new set-up. When listening to music with extremely low volume the sound jumped considerably at places where melody raised up. The jump was about twice higher. I had not had this problem entirely before with my mediaplayer which was replaced by Oppo. The only bad thing had been that it was sometimes not too easy to adjust very low volume with NAD, but once I did this after a three or four seconds adjustment, the sound did not skip uncontrolled.

I dream to trust that this is not purely the problem of Oppo, but the problem of compatibility of the player, amp and the speakers. Will try to find time to replace NAD with Onkyo CD reciever using it as an amp. If that does not help I'd post a new thread asking for an advice.

I guess the problem is in the amp now. So probably, after figuring it out I would need to find an amp which has a long run volume control.

But still if somebody has an idea about this issue - I'll be very thankful.

Cheers to all!

Sounds like you need some attenuators, that will reduce the volume so you can increase the volume on the ampflier if you see what I mean, Im sure Dave will know more about them than I do.

Not even sure what the problem is, let alone the solution.

Furthermore I have no idea what an 'Oppo' is, I am guessing some kind of universal player but I have not been in the market for any kind of (hi-fi) disc players for nearly 15yrs. Does it not have an output level control?

Problem seems to be playing at very low volumes. An Oppo 105 is a high quality "audio" Blu-Ray player.

 

[Chaloff]

Now, connect a piece of wire between the speaker (or bass speaker) terminals and then try pushing the cone, you should find the resistance to movement to be much higher, the cone is much more tightly controlled.

Thanks, davedotco, for sharing interesting test method. I think hi-fi lovers need always to have it in mind. One thing to clarify. Shall the signal from amp be sent to the speaker after connecting the wire?

 

[Chaloff]

Sounds like you need some attenuators, that will reduce the volume so you can increase the volume on the ampflier if you see what I mean, Im sure Dave will know more about them than I do.

Thank you, BigH. Have never known before about attenuators. I've checked wiki to have some idea. Yet, after running quickly through web I did not find that any of hi-fi dealers sell them. That would be great to know if these attenuators can be installed outside the gadgets (I guess between the player and the amp). I do not like the idea to change the design of amp or any other component. And if they can cause any sound distortion. I hope that Dave can help.

 

[Chaloff]

Problem seems to be playing at very low volumes. An Oppo 105 is a high quality "audio" Blu-Ray player.

Exactly

oh, no... Exactly

 

[BigH]

As Dave said can't you reduce the sound output on the Oppo and then turn the amp volume up?

I used to have a similar problem on my old Arcam amp. you used to have to turn it up a bit for it to work properly.

As for attenuators no its not the sort of item hifi shops would sell, maybe Maplins sell them or pro music shops/suppliers?

 

[Electro]

Attenuators like these may help with the problem .

http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html

 

[davedotco]

Now, connect a piece of wire between the speaker (or bass speaker) terminals and then try pushing the cone, you should find the resistance to movement to be much higher, the cone is much more tightly controlled.

Thanks, davedotco, for sharing interesting test method. I think hi-fi lovers need always to have it in mind. One thing to clarify. Shall the signal from amp be sent to the speaker after connecting the wire?

No amplifier involved, just take one speaker out of your system and try gently pushing the cone in and out, firstly with nothing connected to the terminals, then with the terminals shorted with any bit of wire. Just feel the difference in the resistance to movementof the cone, with the terminals connected to when they are not connected, should be obvious.

Then remove the link and connect up your speaker as normal.

Edit. If it is a level mismatch the Rothwell devices detailed above should be an excellent solution, 10db should be fine.

 

[Chaloff]

As Dave said can't you reduce the sound output on the Oppo and then turn the amp volume up?

I used to have a similar problem on my old Arcam amp. you used to have to turn it up a bit for it to work properly.

For sure that's very logical. but I was scared to switch the amp any higher at night, as my wife and little son were sleeping. I was not sure that that was exactly the amp. If the problem is in Oppo the sound could jump and hit the walls.

By now have not found time to experiment during day time.

There is another thing - I am not sure that switching down Oppo's volume would not affect the SQ. Need to reed more about it.

Anyway thanks to everyone!