Monitor Audio Bronze BX2, Sound too bright

[Myers]

As above something greatly wrong if you got the bungs in & loudness on & bass up, I don't have tone controls on my amp but haven't used a loudness button or tone controls in 30 years as I've never felt the need, I've always found changing placement of speakers works - As I remember the BX's were pretty good on bass & have a fairly large driver, the front port should help with reducing boom, you have them dragged well out from the wall which should cut down room reinforcement.

Personally never found the BX's boomy, & never had the bungs in. I have a relation who hates ported speakers & will only use sealed boxes & he was quite impressed with the BX's & said he could live with them (an honour indeed BTW) - I know this is very basic but have you double checked they are in phase? I think most people at some point have run their speakers out of phase by mistake? Otherwise it’s looking like you require different speakers altogether, I would listen to some before buying.

 

[danrv]

Sounds like a similar situation when I bought a brand new pair of Monitor Audio RX1's (silver series). The bass in my 4m x 4m room was a bit too much as the speakers had to go in the room corners around 18" from rear and side walls. I found with eq engaged, the sound wasn't quite as detailed as without. Bungs just seemed to make the bass rather uneven in volume. I decided that I didn't want to compromise by using the eq so sold them. They did have a really smooth sound though and could rock when needed. I'm surprised that you're not getting much bass with source direct on. They're fairly large as bookshelfs go. Are there any genres of music that sound good on the system? + 1 on the Dali recommedation. I've got the Lektor 2's. Terrific speakers for the money. You'll get more bass from the Zensor 3's though.

 

[JohnnyKid]

I'm currently home-auditioning a pair of BX2s (local Richer Sounds kindly let me take their demo set home). I really like the clean, detailed sound, but they can be very bright and I can't help feeling there's something lacking the in the upper-bass area. This is particularly noticable in choral music where female voices sound very bright (at times piercingly so) while bass and tenor are a tad muted. I really want to like these speakers, because the detail is amazing, but not sure I can put up with my ears ringing after prolonged listening! Struggling to find a suitable alternative at this price point. Found Wharfedale 220s a bit muddy sounding, QA 2020i a bit bland, Dali Zensor 1 had distant vocals. Not sure whether it's a case of letting my ears get used to this very different sound, or to keep searching for the right speakers?!

 

[rainsoothe]

I'm currently home-auditioning a pair of BX2s (local Richer Sounds kindly let me take their demo set home). I really like the clean, detailed sound, but they can be very bright and I can't help feeling there's something lacking the in the upper-bass area. This is particularly noticable in choral music where female voices sound very bright (at times piercingly so) while bass and tenor are a tad muted. I really want to like these speakers, because the detail is amazing, but not sure I can put up with my ears ringing after prolonged listening! Struggling to find a suitable alternative at this price point. Found Wharfedale 220s a bit muddy sounding, QA 2020i a bit bland, Dali Zensor 1 had distant vocals. Not sure whether it's a case of letting my ears get used to this very different sound, or to keep searching for the right speakers?!

if you don't like it, then you don't What's your amplification? If it's Marantz, I heard PM6005 with Dali Zensor 3 and it sounded very very good to my ears. Some people had similar problems as you with the Dalis, and they were reported in the Dali Zensor 3 thread, and they all arrived to the conclusion that it was a matter of speaker positioning, which solved the distant vocal thingie. But if they're still wrong for you, then you gotta look somewhere else, 'till you find what you're looking for. So: what's the rest of your system, roomsize, music preferences and source + budget?

 

[JohnnyKid]

I'm going to give them a couple more days and see how I get on. Listening to them right now mind, and they still have that "edginess" with choral music. Had considered the Zensor 3 but I was already stretching budget with BX2s. They're great speakers with other music types I listen to (rock, acoustic, classical etc.), I'm just struggling with them on a-cappella choral music, of which I listen to a lot! Amp is Teac nph750. Source is primarily CD (Teac CD750), but also ipod/airplay. Also running Sky HD & Bluray through this set-up. Room is approx 12'x16'. Speakers positioned in corner facing into room at approx 45 degrees with only very limited clearance from wall (less than 10cm) which is why I've avoided speakers with rear-firing bass ports. Any alternative speaker suggestions at £200-250 that I haven't come across that will give a touch more warmth but without losing the detail and clarity would be very welcome!

 

[JoelSim]

Absolutely don't buy them, you need speakers that soothe, not detail crazy, cheap, metal tweeters.

Go second hand, look at soft dome tweeter models. They may not be as piercing but they will be better.

 

[cse]

With classical music you really need better quality speakers. I've found, over the years, most set-ups to be disappointing and usually either too bright, or muddled and lacking in detail. Your amp is probably fine, as it has a smooth side of neutral presentation. However, you really need to listen to some much more sophisticated speakers (possibly even 2nd hand) for classical. I'm only 'just' satisfied and I spent £1300 on Neat Petit SX speakers. The problem is that with classical you usually sit down and listen and any failings in your system just get worse over time, making the whole experience too taxing. The sound needs to be calm but at the same stage it must have detail and depth of scale in order to feel that you are listening to the musicians playing in your living room. Instrumentation and separation must be easily recognisable. Not easy to achieve I'm afraid at the budget end, but brighness must be avoided at all cost (including detail) to have any chance of lasting satisfaction.

 

[JohnnyKid]

Well, after an evening of listening and TV watching at not terribly loud volume, my ears really do hurt! I think I need to see if Richer Sounds will let me home audition the Zensor 3s instead. Out of my budget but perhaps worth it for more comfortable listening. Given my placement needing to be close to rear wall, albeit at an angle, is this likely to be an issue with the rear firing ports on the Zensors?

 

[davedotco]

Well, after an evening of listening and TV watching at not terribly loud volume, my ears really do hurt! I think I need to see if Richer Sounds will let me home audition the Zensor 3s instead. Out of my budget but perhaps worth it for more comfortable listening. Given my placement needing to be close to rear wall, albeit at an angle, is this likely to be an issue with the rear firing ports on the Zensors?

The MAs are hyped to sound good (ish) on modern pop music, once you get past that they are really pretty awful. Any music that requires even a semblence of accuracy is simply not catered for.

Buy some nice hip-hop or drum and bass.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Well, after an evening of listening and TV watching at not terribly loud volume, my ears really do hurt! I think I need to see if Richer Sounds will let me home audition the Zensor 3s instead. Out of my budget but perhaps worth it for more comfortable listening. Given my placement needing to be close to rear wall, albeit at an angle, is this likely to be an issue with the rear firing ports on the Zensors??

The MAs are hyped to sound good (ish) on modern pop music, once you get past that they are really pretty awful. Any music that requires even a semblence of accuracy is simply not catered for.

Buy some nice hip-hop or drum and bass.

I think you're being a tad unfair Dave. There is some extremely well produced drum and bass and hip hop music out there.

I'm curious to know how loud is your 'not terribly loud' johnny kid - for your ears to be hurting you must have super hero ears or its louder than you're making out.....lol

 

[davedotco]

Well, after an evening of listening and TV watching at not terribly loud volume, my ears really do hurt! I think I need to see if Richer Sounds will let me home audition the Zensor 3s instead. Out of my budget but perhaps worth it for more comfortable listening. Given my placement needing to be close to rear wall, albeit at an angle, is this likely to be an issue with the rear firing ports on the Zensors?

The MAs are hyped to sound good (ish) on modern pop music, once you get past that they are really pretty awful. Any music that requires even a semblence of accuracy is simply not catered for.

Buy some nice hip-hop or drum and bass.

I think you're being a tad unfair Dave. There is some extremely well produced drum and bass and hip hop music out there.

I'm curious to know how loud is your 'not terribly loud' johnny kid - for your ears to be hurting you must have super hero ears or its louder than you're making out.....lol

Never suggested otherwise Thommo......!

However the kind of system required to make it sound 'good' (to most people) is completely different to the kind of system required to play acoustic (voice) music.

The OP has a setup that, like most budget hi-fi, is optimised for the former, but is playing the latter.

The natural result of punters buying equipment that they 'like' rather than equipment that is accurate and manufacturers supplying that need.

 

[JohnnyKid]

Haha, Dave, believe me, if I had the money no expense would be spared on the search for perfection, but the reality is that I shouldn't spend more than £250 on speakers and can't spend more than £300! It seems clear that the BX2s are wrong for my kind of listening. The impression I'm getting from forums is that the Zensor 3s will be better for classical, while remaining good all rounders for my other listening habits, ie TV, indie rock, accoustic. How does this chime with the experience of others? Ears still ringing after a few hours of the BX2s last night btw! Volume was no louder than usual with my old (boring) Q acoustics 1020i, much more detailed, but far less comfortable!

 

[davedotco]

It's a relatively simple issue of who buys what.

Most budget speakers are sold to people who are going to play modern, compressed to ****, bass heavy music, so that is what the manufacturers make their speakers sound good on, simple as that. They all do it, to one degree or another.

Dali and Q Acoustics make the best balanced speakers in this range, the Q Acoustics need a fair amount of power to sound at their best, otherwise, as you say, they can sound a bit bland. That leaves Dali.

Zensor 1s are great speakers and if the positioning is less than optimum I would consider these as an alternative to the Zensor 3s, depends where you are going to put them.

For future inprovement, both will respond well to better amplification and Zensor 1s with a decent sub sound great.

 

[JohnnyKid]

Thanks Dave, good advice. I've just phoned RS and they've agreed to let me home auditon the Zensor 3s for a few days, so that's what I'll do. From what I've read elsewhere, as well as what you've said, these would seem the best option for my listening needs at this price point (my wife will be less than pleased that've I've gone to the very top of budget mind). They also seem like the more "future proof" option in terms of being a good match for any future amp upgrages (lottery win permitting of course!). Look forward to trying them out at home this evening!

 

[Myers]

Most budget speakers are sold to people who are going to play modern, compressed to ****, bass heavy music, so that is what the manufacturers make their speakers sound good on, simple as that. They all do it, to one degree or another.

Dali and Q Acoustics make the best balanced speakers in this range, the Q Acoustics need a fair amount of power to sound at their best, otherwise, as you say, they can sound a bit bland. That leaves Dali.

I would think the people who buy any speakers are going to have varying tastes including budget, I listen to a wide range of music as most people I know who buy separates, people who buy top of the range have varying tastes too - IMO cash in the bank usually dictates how much people spend on loudspeakers (and cars/houses) from my experience, if you are skint you have no choice but budget - I bought budget when I had a growing family, my next speakers will be probably be over 2K mainly because I don't have to buy school uniforms & pushchairs or a mortgage, my musical tastes have remained much the same. over the past 40 odd years.

The frequency response graph for the budget BX2 is pretty flat with a small peak around 10k certainly not smiley faced, though my hearing tails off quickly around there which is why I find the MA silvers sound good though I've not looked at a graph for those.

As for which speakers are the most balanced surely that would be in your opinion?

 

[davedotco]

The average persons buying budget hi-fi are as I descibed, there are exceptions sure enough, like the op and perhaps yourself, but speaker manufacturers make the speakers the way they do because that is what sells.

Nice and bright balanced by overblown bass is the norm, it's just a matter of degree, the big 'smiley face' is the in room response, not free space or anechoic. Such speakers audition well to the inexperienced because they 'sound good' on modern pop music, the buyer who knows the difference at this level is pretty rare.

A balanced speaker will produce real, acoustic sounds in a manner that sounds real, most budget speakers make no attempt to do that so, as the op found out, they sound poor on a lot of material.

This is not an opinion, it is a value judgement based on years of experience with real instruments in the home, in the studio and pretty much everywhere else. It is budget hi-fi, so allowances are made but really, it is pretty obvious.

 

[JohnnyKid]

The chaps in RS were incredulous when I popped in at lunch time to swap the BX2s for the Zensor 3s. They really couldn't believe I didn't like them! They seemed to think I'd find the treble just as harsh on the Zensors, but with overbearing bass?! That's completely at odds with what I've read elsewhere, so will be interested to judge for myself. I should have mentioned previously, I do have partial hearing loss, which perhaps is why my remaining "good ear" is particularly sensitive to screeching treble and craves a rich and detailed mid-range. Maybe there's a theme for a new thread there actually, "hifi for the hearing impaired", if that's not an oxymoron?!

 

[Thompsonuxb]

They share my view of the Dali's.

I do disagree with all Davedotco has said.

Imo the Dali's are not an 'accurate' speaker the bass while plenty full is not 'good'.

A dun speaker but foe the more discerning listener immature.

But horses for courses and all that. Let us know what you think.

 

[Myers]

This is not an opinion, it is a value judgement based on years of experience with real instruments in the home, in the studio and pretty much everywhere else. It is budget hi-fi, so allowances are made but really, it is pretty obvious.

It's still an opinion - I too have real instruments including a half decent piano, several guitars & been messing with hi-fi & electronics since I could walk well over 50 odd years ago, no I’m not a recording engineer but I do know what instruments sound like & played around a fair bit with amateur recording though some years ago.
But what ‘balanced speakers' to are you may be balanced to me & or others, or indeed whether a person would like the sound of such a unit. That's why we should all ideally listen to speakers in the room they will be used in as we all know & it's not possible to buy ‘X’ speaker & you will be happy.

I have a pretty good chart of my ears FR & it’s far from flat with a dip at 7k & a worrying roll off before 10k which IMO is certainly going to change what I perceive balanced speakers are.

Of course cheaper smaller speakers are often given a bass lift to give the impression of deeper bass from a small cabinet & when you have limited money sacrifices have to be made on magnets, cabinet material etc. But I still don't agree that budget speaker buyers have different musical tastes to those who buy or can afford more expensive gear, I’ve always bought the best I could afford, though very few speakers are totally neutral & no living rooms are - Opinion is not fact, that’s all, the older I get the more I realise many things I once though were facts ended up as opinions.

Last time I took someone to RS for a speaker audition, the stands only had two spikes touching the floor, wobble wasn't the word, that was where they once made steel

The post was did have paragraphs, sorry about the block of text.

 

[davedotco]

If you live with real instruments then you should have a decent grasp of what reproduces them with a reasonable attempt at accuracy and what does not. It is about accuracy, not likes or dislikes.

It is a fact of a hi-fi retailers life that most systems sold are budget systems and most of these are bought to play modern popular music. Speaker manufacturers know this and given the limited options at this level, opt for a 'hyped' sound, thats just the way it is.

It doesn't help that the standard of hi-fi retailing in the mass market is awful, it pretty much always was, so shop demonstrations are often useless. This is not because of the dem room being different to your own room but the complete lack of understanding by the retailer (and often the buyer) about what does and does not work in domestic situations.

 

[BigH]

A dun speaker but foe the more discerning listener immature.

What?

 

[JohnnyKid]

Very quick update on the Zensor 3s; I really like them so far. Bigger, fuller sound with slightly less detail than the BX2s but much more warmth while still retaining very good clarity. Perhaps a bit too much bass for my taste but only very slightly and it's actually very good at low volume v the BX2s, which is important as in reality most of my listening will have to be at lower volume. Completely out of left field however, my wife has just annouced that she perfers the BX2s (I suspect aesthetically!)....

 

[davedotco]

Where and how do you have the Zensors positioned, they do need proper support and a bit of space.

The Zensor 1s are easier to site, hence my suggestions earlier. Good amplification makes a difference too.

 

[JohnnyKid]

They're standmounted, either side of a 42 inch tv in the corner of a room that's approx 12'x18'. The rear of the speakers is angled to the wall but they have approx 8-10" of breathing space. I'm really enjoying these speakers. I was going to stick some tv on about an hour ago, but I just find myself listening to more and more music! A bit bassy, but it's tight and controlled, so it's impressive rather than oppressive bass. I do agree with my wife, the BX2s look nicer, but I think I'm sold on these Dalis. Will give it a few more days of course, I have them til after weekend, but if I wake up in the morning without ringing ears (like I did after the BX2s), then it's a no brainer!

 

[davedotco]

The little teac has tone controls, try -1 on the bass setting and if needed +1 on the treble. Try and give the system a very gentle uptilt.

Of course the real answer is a more potent amplifier with better control, more money I'm afraid.

I was playing with some Zensor 5s the other day and amplifiers made a big difference, going from an Arcam A19 to a big Cambridge power amp made a hell of a difference.