Mixing Vintage and Modern Equipment

[elnorte]

Hello

I'm just looking for a little advice from anyone who maybe has previous experience of this sort of thing. I have a late 1960s era turntable and amplifier along with speakers from the early 1970s. I think both the amplifier and speakers are in working order but the turntable may need to be replaced.

Would it be advisable just to replace the faulty turntable with a new modern amplifier and use it in conjunction with the vintage amplifier and speakers? It might sound odd but I felt this could possibly look a little strange in terms of a setup but I guess sound and performance is all that really matters in the end.

Maybe I should add as well that I was advised that my amplifier is of a significantly higher quality than my speakers and the likely broken record player. Perhaps then I should consider replacing two out of the three items?

Any advice at all would be most appreciated and please ask if you wish me to provide any further details.

 

[nopiano]

It would help to know exactly what equipment you are referring to. However, if we are talking about HiFi separates then the basic principles of turntable, cartridge, amp and speakers have changed very little over the decades.

 

[elnorte]

Ok, thanks.

Turntable: Garrard AP76

Cartridge: Shure M75EJ Type 2

Amplifier: Armstrong 521

Speakers: Wharfedale Linton 2

 

[nopiano]

Ok, thanks.

Turntable: Garrard AP76

Cartridge: Shure M75EJ Type 2

Amplifier: Armstrong 521

Speakers: Wharfedale Linton 2

Any of these could be below their original standard, given they are forty odd years old. I remember them all!

The Armstrong was considered well in its day and I can see why you’d been told it is better than the speakers. Neither is, in my view, a patch on a basic budget system of c. £200 per item in today’s market, brand new. A Richer Sounds advert will give you a good idea what is around at that price, and a demo there will help you decide what needs replacing.

If you are confident the amp and speakers are in good working order, I’d look at a Project turntable of whatever your funds allow. They are easily improved and maintained, unlike some budget rivals. I’m assuming you have a reasonable selection of records, as otherwise keeping up to date with LPs will be costly!

 

[Fee]

There is no fundamental rrason why a modern turntable/cartridge shouldn't work quite acceptaby with 40+ year old amp and speakers. However, there are a couple of things to bear in mind;

Connections - what connections does your amp have? I used to have an A&R Cambridge A60 from the late 70's which was all 5 pin DIN, not phono plugs, and I understand this was quite common on British kit of that era - no modern turntable will have this so a conversion from phono to DIN would be required.

Condition of electronics - old electronics in both your amp and the crossover of your speakers, particularly the capacitors, will perish with age. They may still "work", but performance could be severely compromised. So called "re-capping" may not be cheap if you can't do it yourself.

As Nopiano said, new kit is both relatively inexpensive and good quality, so this may be the way to go.

 

[nopiano]

I think the 521 had non standard speaker plugs/sockets, but it did have regular RCA phono sockets for sources.

 

[Al ears]

I think the 521 had non standard speaker plugs/sockets, but it did have regular RCA phono sockets for sources.

Quite so. If I recall correctly (I owned one - CORRECTION - mine was a 621...) it had DIN type connections for the speakers i.e. one 'bar' and one round pin in a plug.

However I would guess any capacitors in it would probably need replacing by now and soldered connections might not be at their best. Regards the rest the turntable might need belts etc and the cartridge would certainly need replacing. Better to retire this on I feel.

 

[nopiano]

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/500/500page2.html

The 621 was the stylish slim one, but this earlier model had the speakers sockets of the day. I seem to recall that matchsticks came in handy!

 

[Al ears]

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/500/500page2.html

The 621 was the stylish slim one, but this earlier model had the speakers sockets of the day. I seem to recall that matchsticks came in handy!

Aha! The olde Leak asymetric sockets eh?

 

[elnorte]

Thanks for all the help so far.

I should add that repairs have been carried out on these items in the last couple of years or more specifically to have them 'fully restored'.

However, subequent to this I then had to have the tweeters replaced in both the speakers

The turntable then started making a loud hum along with rumbling sounds even without a record playing. Could this just be a loose connection or something more serious? It does not have a ground wire (if I'm using the right terminology) but just single 6 pin DIN to RCA cable connecting directly to the amplifier.

The amplifier itself has apparently had its capacitors replaced but then who knows if its entirely OK given what else has already occured with the other two appliances since the repairs originally took place. It has also been having it's own audio issues as well.

 

[nopiano]

Thanks for all the help so far.

I should add that repairs have been carried out on these items in the last couple of years or more specifically to have them 'fully restored'.

However, subequent to this I then had to have the tweeters replaced in both the speakers

The turntable then started making a loud hum along with rumbling sounds even without a record playing. Could this just be a loose connection or something more serious? It does not have a ground wire (if I'm using the right terminology) but just single 6 pin DIN to RCA cable connecting directly to the amplifier.

The amplifier itself has apparently had its capacitors replaced but then who knows if its entirely OK given what else has already occured with the other two appliances since the repairs originally took place. It has also been having it's own audio issues as well.

Hum when the turntable is connected, and the amp set at normal listening volume, means there is an earth problem. Sounds like you have have a short coupler to convert the 5 pin din cable from the TT to the amp. They aren’t the best, and I suggest you should chop the DIN plug off and get two new phono plugs fitted. Of course the amp still might be dodgy!

Have you access to anything working to test it out? Maybe a DVD player you can use to try a cd? Use an Aux or Tape input though, not the LP/phono input.

 

[elnorte]

Thanks for all the help so far.

I should add that repairs have been carried out on these items in the last couple of years or more specifically to have them 'fully restored'.

However, subequent to this I then had to have the tweeters replaced in both the speakers

The turntable then started making a loud hum along with rumbling sounds even without a record playing. Could this just be a loose connection or something more serious? It does not have a ground wire (if I'm using the right terminology) but just single 6 pin DIN to RCA cable connecting directly to the amplifier.

The amplifier itself has apparently had its capacitors replaced but then who knows if its entirely OK given what else has already occured with the other two appliances since the repairs originally took place. It has also been having it's own audio issues as well.

Hum when the turntable is connected, and the amp set at normal listening volume, means there is an earth problem. Sounds like you have have a short coupler to convert the 5 pin din cable from the TT to the amp. They aren’t the best, and I suggest you should chop the DIN plug off and get two new phono plugs fitted. Of course the amp still might be dodgy!

Have you access to anything working to test it out? Maybe a DVD player you can use to try a cd? Use an Aux or Tape input though, not the LP/phono input.

First off the hum is heard when the phono button on my own amplifier is turned on which also results in intermittent pops and bangs. It does not seem to happen when the aux button is used.

A number of tests have subsequently been carried out.

One that may interest you is that the amplifier and turntable were tested together in a separate location which resulted in the same noise issues occuring. Interestingly enough the person who did this for me believed it was the amp that was causing the problem and made me think there was an issue specifically within the phono component of the device.

Furthermore another shop tested the amplifier on it's own (ie independently of my turntable) who confirmed they could hear an intermittent pop.

However, the latest test which I carried out was with a modern amplifier which I borrowed. As soon as I turned it to the phono setting the hum was actually considerably more audible than my own amp and latterly the same pops could be heard as well.

So do we possibly have two separate issues?

Would you possibly be able expand a little in your references you made to the coupler and DIN etc. I do actually have two DIN cables but neither make any difference to the problem. If I did chop off the DIN plug what would I use to connect to the turntable?

And if you have the patience it would be very useful to know what an earthing problem actually is. Excuse my ignorance but despite my best efforts to educate myself I still don't properly understand it.

Thanks again.

 

[nopiano]

Any noises from an amplifier suggest a fault somewhere. Given the age, some component or several may be responsible. The phono/turntable input is much higher gain than the others because it is amplifying a few millivolts. By contrast, a CD player can put out two volts maximum. Therefore it will always be a bit noisier and more sensitive to hum. (Even placing an amplifier on top of, say, a tuner or CD player can cause some noise pickup.) The aux input should be almost silen. The intermittent pop could be a dodgy component, or pick8ng up switching noises from the mains.

I was picturing the captive signal lead from your Garrard being terminated in a DIN plug. Then an adapter of a Din socket to two phono plugs. I was suggesting these are a bit flaky when new, and if this was the same age as the rest it could be the problem - hence cutting it off and soldering on two phono plugs instead. Then the turntable can be plugged into almost anything.

Earthing is always something of a mystery, but with a turntable it can either have a separate lead expressly to connect to a ground screw on the amp, or ground via the screen. Yours seems not to have a separate lead, but I’ve no idea if it should or not. The amp has no earth term8nal anyway, though the chassis screw might suffice.

Given I would right the turntable off, you need to establish if the amp works well with a new turntable. It seems that it doesn’t even do that. Only you can decide if it is worth spending more time and money on. Frankly I wouldn’t.

I hope the speakers work, but even new they were nothing special. I expect they’d sound quite boxy and muddled today. I’m sure you could get something quite decent secondhand for fifty quid or less, or new for under two hundred.

 

[elnorte]

Any noises from an amplifier suggest a fault somewhere. Given the age, some component or several may be responsible. The phono/turntable input is much higher gain than the others because it is amplifying a few millivolts. By contrast, a CD player can put out two volts maximum. Therefore it will always be a bit noisier and more sensitive to hum. (Even placing an amplifier on top of, say, a tuner or CD player can cause some noise pickup.) The aux input should be almost silen. The intermittent pop could be a dodgy component, or pick8ng up switching noises from the mains.

I was picturing the captive signal lead from your Garrard being terminated in a DIN plug. Then an adapter of a Din socket to two phono plugs. I was suggesting these are a bit flaky when new, and if this was the same age as the rest it could be the problem - hence cutting it off and soldering on two phono plugs instead. Then the turntable can be plugged into almost anything.

Earthing is always something of a mystery, but with a turntable it can either have a separate lead expressly to connect to a ground screw on the amp, or ground via the screen. Yours seems not to have a separate lead, but I’ve no idea if it should or not. The amp has no earth term8nal anyway, though the chassis screw might suffice.

Given I would right the turntable off, you need to establish if the amp works well with a new turntable. It seems that it doesn’t even do that. Only you can decide if it is worth spending more time and money on. Frankly I wouldn’t.

I hope the speakers work, but even new they were nothing special. I expect they’d sound quite boxy and muddled today. I’m sure you could get something quite decent secondhand for fifty quid or less, or new for under two hundred.

Hey man. Apologies for the delay in responding. Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice and information you gave to me. I think I am at this point ready to move on from the old system. Sad as it is I've had no joy solving the route cause of the problem and can no longer be bothered with the hassle (not to mention stress) of it all.

I've set myself a total budget of around £2000 for a new turntable, amplifier and speakers so will hopefully that will find me something which will prove an enjoyable replacement!

 

[6and8]

Hi Elnorte, don't know where you live but as you have an Armstrong amp thought this may be of interest: https://www.armstrong-audio.com

 

[entrails]

For what its worth, the M75shure cartridge/ N75type 2 stylus you mention I rate highly and continue to use using a jico replacement stylus. Most after market styluses for this cartridge are around £15 and ok but the jico version costs around £38 including import costs and sounds great it is very musical, a nice vivid presence to the music and gives a good balance between detail and being forgiving of imperfections of used lps. The cartridge doesn't command high prices on ebay but I would advise giving it a go before getting a more modern costly cartridge.