Mini Systems - Conflicting Advice, help please

[admin_exported]

Hi

I am looking to downsize my current Marantz separates system for a Mini system. (wife feed up with large black slabs in the living room)

The problem is that I have been given conflicting advice as to what would be suitable.

I will be keeping my existing set of KEF 35.2 floorstanders so the system will need to be able to drive the speakers.

I am considering the following Mini systems:

DenonM37

Onkyo CR715

Onkyo CR725

The system is for my living room. Don't really need a system to deliver party volume levels but I don't want the system to sound weedy.

So far I have visited two branches of Ritcher Sounds and one branch of Sevenoaks HI-FI. Each visit has given me conflicting advice.

First visit to Richer Sounds, the salesman only had a M37 on display. He said that a mini system was not really suitable for my needs as they would all struggle to drive the speakers that I have, even the Arcam Mini Solo (which is out of my price range anyway) he advised that I go for a full size AV receiver (not really what I want) and forget the mini system idea as they all would sound rather lost.

On my visit to Sevenoaks HI-FI they didn't have any of the systems I was looking for in stock and I was told that any of the systems would drive the speakers but all mini systems are a compromise and the sound is not that great. I asked about the different qualities of the units I was looking at, the guy said that it doesn't really matter what system you buy as all minis sound nearly the same anyway? He did point me in the direction of the Arcam Solo Mini and said that would be OK but still a compromise. He then said that he had a Yamaha CRXM170 on special. When I asked to look at it, he said that it is a sealed box but it is as a good mini system as the others!!!. Not really the best salesman in the world.

I tried another branch of Richer Sounds they had the Denon and the Onkyo CR515 on display. The advice I was given was that any of the systems I was looking at would drive the speakers perfectly well. He did say that he had never heard the performance of the CR715/CR725 but did say that they are similar to the C515. He again pointed me to the Arcam Mini as he said it is of better quality than the others. He allowed me to try all the systems he had on display.

On listening to the Onkyo 515 connected up to a pair of budget Eltac speakers it sounded a little flat with a bit to much treble.

The Arcam was a big disappointment. It was connected up to a pair of £300 Arcam speakers and sounded terrible. No bass, over bright treble and not very clear at all. Not what I expect for £650.

I was really surprised by the Denon. It sounded really good. It was connected up to a pair or budget Gale speakers, but it had a clear, warm sound with a good bass/treble balance. I liked it the best out of all of the ones I tried. Unless I can try either of the other Onkyo's I might go with this.

But I am left with the following questions.

Will my speakers work with any Mini system .

How similar are the Onkyo's as I can't seem to find anyone local who has the CR715/CR725 on display.

I really like the Denon but will the Little unit be powerful enough for my living room.

Thanks in advance

 

[Gerrardasnails]

pcoleman11:
Hi

I am looking to downsize my current Marantz separates system for a Mini system. (wife feed up with large black slabs in the living room)

The problem is that I have been given conflicting advice as to what would be suitable.

I will be keeping my existing set of KEF 35.2 floorstanders so the system will need to be able to drive the speakers.

I am considering the following Mini systems:

DenonM37

Onkyo CR715

Onkyo CR725

The system is for my living room. Don't really need a system to deliver party volume levels but I don't want the system to sound weedy.

So far I have visited two branches of Ritcher Sounds and one branch of Sevenoaks HI-FI. Each visit has given me conflicting advice.

First visit to Richer Sounds, the salesman only had a M37 on display. He said that a mini system was not really suitable for my needs as they would all struggle to drive the speakers that I have, even the Arcam Mini Solo (which is out of my price range anyway) he advised that I go for a full size AV receiver (not really what I want) and forget the mini system idea as they all would sound rather lost.

On my visit to Sevenoaks HI-FI they didn't have any of the systems I was looking for in stock and I was told that any of the systems would drive the speakers but all mini systems are a compromise and the sound is not that great. I asked about the different qualities of the units I was looking at, the guy said that it doesn't really matter what system you buy as all minis sound nearly the same anyway? He did point me in the direction of the Arcam Solo Mini and said that would be OK but still a compromise. He then said that he had a Yamaha CRXM170 on special. When I asked to look at it, he said that it is a sealed box but it is as a good mini system as the others!!!. Not really the best salesman in the world.

I tried another branch of Richer Sounds they had the Denon and the Onkyo CR515 on display. The advice I was given was that any of the systems I was looking at would drive the speakers perfectly well. He did say that he had never heard the performance of the CR715/CR725 but did say that they are similar to the C515. He again pointed me to the Arcam Mini as he said it is of better quality than the others. He allowed me to try all the systems he had on display.

On listening to the Onkyo 515 connected up to a pair of budget Eltac speakers it sounded a little flat with a bit to much treble.

The Arcam was a big disappointment. It was connected up to a pair of £300 Arcam speakers and sounded terrible. No bass, over bright treble and not very clear at all. Not what I expect for £650.

I was really surprised by the Denon. It sounded really good. It was connected up to a pair or budget Gale speakers, but it had a clear, warm sound with a good bass/treble balance. I liked it the best out of all of the ones I tried. Unless I can try either of the other Onkyo's I might go with this.

But I am left with the following questions.

Will my speakers work with any Mini system .

How similar are the Onkyo's as I can't seem to find anyone local who has the CR715/CR725 on display.

I really like the Denon but will the Little unit be powerful enough for my living room.

Thanks in advance

Well mini systems are designed to be matched with smaller speakers - not like yours. The only thing you can do is try them out.

 

[Big Chris]

Of course, if your speakers have decent efficiency (The larger the speaker, the 'better' the efficiency...Ususally). Then I can't see why you'd have a problem with a 25/30wpc mini system.

Especially as you've already admitted you're not expecting to hold raves with it.

;-)

 

[chebby]

pcoleman11:The Arcam was a big disappointment. It was connected up to a pair of £300 Arcam speakers and sounded terrible. No bass, over bright treble and not very clear at all. Not what I expect for £650.

Wrong speakers to judge this unit, they (Arcam Muso speakers) are for use in very small study or bedroom and are best with the Arcam Logo sub-woofer. Specifically they were really designed to be part of a compact/mini 5.1 speaker system.

Try and hear the Arcam Solo-Mini with much larger, efficient speakers. I use mine with Rega R3's and it sounds superb.

I am afraid you only heard the Arcam speakers (tiny bass drivers that only go down to 70hz) and not the best the Solo-Mini can offer.

[Late edit] I just noticed you have a pair of KEF Q35.2 speakers. I used to have a pair of these driven by a Rega Luna amp. They have an efficiency of 91db (into 8 ohms) and they should be ideal with the Arcam. Try and hear both together. Forget what you heard through those little Muso speakers, with your Q35.2's it will be a different story completely.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies,

As I said the Arcam is out of my limit so I will give it a miss for now.

I managed to get a demo of both the DM37 and the Onkyo CR-715 with a set of KEF Q7 and Q5 floorstanders. (Thanks to John, from Superfi in Camden) Both units had no problem driving either set of speakers, which with the Denon really surprised me.

The Onkyo sounded good with cean sound. It also had plenty of range with the volume and was not overwhelmed by the speakers. I did find the bass a little bit shallow, even using the tone control the bass went to +3db and I still found it a bit light. But I have to say that I am impressed.

I then moved to the Denon M37. I can say that I noticed a sound difference . The Denon had a slighter clearer sound than the Onkyo. It also had a warmth that the Onkyo didn't. This was down to the added bass, which was set to max as default?, this unit can go down really low punching way above it's weight. It also impressed me.

Using both systems on 'direct' without any tone enhancements, the Denon just slightly wins in the Low to Mid volume levels, it certainly had a cleaner sound but once you start to move up the volume level the Onkyo starts to show it's capabilities, and it starts to edge ahead of the Denon. The Onkyo showed no signs of any distortion or hiss at any of the levels I tried. But as I cranked up the Denon, you got the signs that it was struggling and it started to muddle the definition of the music.

So what to Choose? Overall I was really impressed with the Denon. It has a superb sound in the low/Mid volume range and only just loses it at it's top end. It also has plenty of BASS available(should you need it). It is well put together, looks great and is terrific value for money.

The Onkyo is only just behind the Denon. It does wins hands down in the higher volume levels, but a little bit short on Bass. IMHO it does not look quite as good as the Denon but it is still well put together. It is also now good value for money as it has been replaced with the CR-725. If you need that extra volume level, then I think that this is the one to go for.

Me, I don't think I will use that extra volume of the Onkyo, so I think it will be the Denon.

Thanks

 

[bretty]

it's not on your list, but, and don't laugh, have a look at the Hitachi AX-M135. Don't let the brand put you off. It has the looks of seperates, while being about the same size as the micro's you mentioned. i've had the Denon, and the Hitachi blows it away. Also it has an RMS of 100 watt per channel, plenty to run your existing speakers (I've had it running my mezzo 6 floorstanders effortlessy). It has a hard drive (40g) which, honestly, is useless. However, the cd player and amp are pretty exceptional at the price (bout £300). Also has a very strong tuner. Lastly, it's easily the best looking of all the systems you listed.

there's one on e-bay, have a look. Its going for £75. ÿI've put the link below.ÿ

ÿhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hitachi-AX-M135-HiFi-with-40GB-Hard-Drive-MP3-USB_W0QQitemZ230306101193QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230306101193&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A2%7C240%3A1318ÿ

 

[Clare Newsome]

Well we gave the Denon the Product of the year Award over any other system - including the Onkyo and Hitachi mentioned - so you know what we think! As mentioned, at your budget and for what you want to do with it, I think the D-M37 DAB will do fine.

And congrats on perservering to get the product-auditions you wanted!