Meridian DSP 3200 + AC 200 - Third time Active Speaker Disappointment

[WishTree]

Either I am going this all wrong way or I am not meant for actives!

With the disappointment of AVI ADM9T (not the latest version) and the Dynaudio Xeo5, I have decided to give another chance for Active speakers with Meridian DSP 3200 + AC 200.

I went with my wife for audition and had already filled her head with the technical prowess of DSP 3200 - about how active speakers make it easier on power amplifier, how a 400Hz cross over is so important (I read some where on HDD forums by Ashley about the crossing over and in my head I remember it that it is important not to cross the drivers in human voice range to avoid unplesant dips - I might be wrong), how the speakers can work near walls etc etc

I used my Macbook Air to connect via USB to AC 200 and played all the songs that we heard many times at home. The speakers were free in the room on a wide table (looked audiophile enough - heavy and no vibration) along with AC 200. It is about 3-4 feet into the room and we were sitting some 4-5 feet away.

Out of the box, Meridian sounded excellent bass for their size. My wife has to ask few times if there is a sub conected somewhere..

That's it.

Apart from the convenience of a small size, there is nothing more to write if I have to write positive. Ok, the finish and build are excellent.

What we did not like are the overpowering mid bass, soundstage was somehow felt wrong and voices went very much behind the instruments. At home with out any tweaking we hear the singers clearly and balance of the instruments to voices is normal / correct and with the system Meridian has put in it was quite behind. There is no musicality or seperation of instruments. If some one had told me that it is a Mini / Micro system sound, I would have just believed it.

We were told that the system was not run-in enough and we were also told that since we never heard correct bass, we feel the speed of the bass as higher volume of the bass :doh:

I would give the benefit of doubt about system not run-in but still..

I almost thought that I found the perfect system for me to go with my relocation but I did not expect such a big disappointment.

For now, I will stop chasing actives (though it is a pity that with Classe CP-800 a beautiful & simple system can be set up but alas for now I give up)

Also, this unforked path of passives speakers (atleast for now), put me on to explore different kind of speakers. Immediately on radar / soon to be auditioned are Anthony Gallo Strada and Vivid Audio V1.5

I am aware that there is a huge price & size difference but I want to see what would my current maximum budget will get me to.

in the mean time, KEF R300 are brilliant !!

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Either I am going this all wrong way or I am not meant for actives!

With the disappointment of AVI ADM9T (not the latest version) and the Dynaudio Xeo5, I have decided to give another chance for Active speakers with Meridian DSP 3200 + AC 200.

I had a chance to hear the same system last year at Dublin's hi-fi affair. suffice to say we - myself, my GF and friend - spent maybe about 1 minute in Meridian room. the sound was shrill and very fuzzy to my ears.

I went with my wife for audition and had already filled her head with the technical prowess of DSP 3200 - about how active speakers make it easier on power amplifier, how a 400Hz cross over is so important (I read some where on HDD forums by Ashley about the crossing over and in my head I remember it that it is important not to cross the drivers in human voice range to avoid unplesant dips - I might be wrong), how the speakers can work near walls etc etc

that really depends on quality of xover itself. well design xover will not exhibit any freq dip. but there's a good reason for shifting xover point as low as possible and letting one driver, if it's capable, to do most of the job - phase coherence. one driver will always be in phase with itself.

and if you really want to let one driver to do the whole of human voice 400Hz xover point is not enough. 200Hz looks more like it.

Out of the box, Meridian sounded excellent bass for their size. My wife has to ask few times if there is a sub conected somewhere..

That's it.

Apart from the convenience of a small size, there is nothing more to write if I have to write positive. Ok, the finish and build are excellent.

What we did not like are the overpowering mid bass, soundstage was somehow felt wrong and voices went very much behind the instruments. At home with out any tweaking we hear the singers clearly and balance of the instruments to voices is normal / correct and with the system Meridian has put in it was quite behind. There is no musicality or seperation of instruments. If some one had told me that it is a Mini / Micro system sound, I would have just believed it.

that's actually the artefact of small drivers doing job of large drivers. high levels of intermodulation distortion make small speakers sound more bassy than they should and also you loose on resolution in midbass.

I also found this system to sound like there was no separation in instruments. just a wall of noise.

We were told that the system was not run-in enough and we were also told that since we never heard correct bass, we feel the speed of the bass as higher volume of the bass :doh:

LOL! that's a good one. like I just said, what you heard was harmonic distortion, and maybe bass reinforcement from the table plane (if the speakers weren't put on the edge of the table) so how can this be any correct?

if you ever want to hear how bass truly sounds like you have to listen to large bass drivers. it may, ironically, initially sound bass light. but only until when you realise that where there should be bass there's plenty of it. and then you start to appreciate increased midbass resolution, because there's virtually no harmonic distortion in the bass region.

if I may point you in the direction of large planar speakers... :shifty: you seem like a guy willing to experiment. and this experiment may come through as revelation for you.

 

[WishTree]

if you ever want to hear how bass truly sounds like you have to listen to large bass drivers. it may, ironically, initially sound bass light. but only until when you realise that where there should be bass there's plenty of it. and then you start to appreciate increased midbass resolution, because there's virtually no harmonic distortion in the bass region.

if I may point you in the direction of large planar speakers... :shifty: you seem like a guy willing to experiment. and this experiment may come through as revelation for you.

Thanks oldric! It looks like I am not the only one to trash this Meridian system.

Yes, I am willing to experiment in a slightly convoluted way 'cos I also wish that HiFi fits in home rather than home needs to fit for HiFi which seems more likely

The point is - I love the concept of Planar speakers and I have never heard them. The little I read, told me they are fussy about positioning and they are generally huge to look at which makes them out of the equation, for me.

But I have a feeling as time progresses, I might get the right place where there might be a place in home just for HiFi and these physical challenges can be overcomed.

Right now, I am looking forward to some possibly 'out of the box' speakers like Anthony Gallo Strada and the reviews say that then sound a lot like ESL.. I will keep us posted!

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

What you are hearing with the Meridian's is there sound. I wouldnt let that experience put you off active speakers in the same way that if you didnt like PMC or B&W it shouldn't put you off passive designs.

The Vivids are a completely different sound to the Meridian's but I suspect you will like them coming from the R300's. We put our K1's against the KEF 207's and they are not chalk and cheese.

 

[andyjm]

Active loudspeakers are widely used in professional circles with firms such as Genelec the common choice for studio montiors.

The retail market has been slow to respond, but at the low end there are some standout products (Squeezebox Boom, Sonos Play3, Play5) which show what you can do with modern DSP and multi-amped setups, and at the higher end Meridian and ADM.

I certainly believe that active / dsp speakers are the way of the future.

Have you considered using room equalisation? The LF problems you describe are more likely to be room resonance problems than the speaker themselves.

 

[ellisdj]

I have Meridian kit - not dsp speakers and I dont think the Meridian sound is exactly how it is being described here.

The mid range is maybe slightly recessed in its presentation and there is always a lot of bass

I have read the post and I can understand the dissapointment when the hopes are so high when the price tag is equally so, but I have realised that my Meridian kit has made me notice the flaws in my setup / room placement of speakers etc and thats what it sounds like a little bit in this instance. I would bet putting them in a better listening environment acoustically would yield much better results. I also thought the op would have prefered the M6 as they more like his current speakers - larger etc.

He is also very lucky - I would love to hear some Vivid Audio speakers to hear what they are all about - lucky you !!

 

[WishTree]

I have Meridian kit - not dsp speakers and I dont think the Meridian sound is exactly how it is being described here.

The mid range is maybe slightly recessed in its presentation and there is always a lot of bass

Recessed midrange is a big killer, for me

I have read the post and I can understand the dissapointment when the hopes are so high when the price tag is equally so, but I have realised that my Meridian kit has made me notice the flaws in my setup / room placement of speakers etc and thats what it sounds like a little bit in this instance. I would bet putting them in a better listening environment acoustically would yield much better results. I also thought the op would have prefered the M6 as they more like his current speakers - larger etc.

The audition was at dealer's demo room and we immediately switched to KEF R100s in the same roon with some Marantz electronics and they did not have the recessed mid range any more.

He is also very lucky - I would love to hear some Vivid Audio speakers to hear what they are all about - lucky you !!

Luck is a phone call or a little bit drive away.. !! The only problem is resisting to temptation if they do live up to their excellent reviews.. and even better is I get to hear them at home so it would be no more blaming unknown electronics, unknown room acoustics!!!

 

[WishTree]

I certainly believe that active / dsp speakers are the way of the future.

Have you considered using room equalisation? The LF problems you describe are more likely to be room resonance problems than the speaker themselves.

I do believe in that as well and I will not give up.

Yes, I have PEQ in the CP-800 however these speakers were heard at dealer audition room and with R100s in the same room, they sounded alright..

I will keep an open mind on DSP!

 

[WishTree]

What you are hearing with the Meridian's is there sound. I wouldnt let that experience put you off active speakers in the same way that if you didnt like PMC or B&W it shouldn't put you off passive designs.

The Vivids are a completely different sound to the Meridian's but I suspect you will like them coming from the R300's. We put our K1's against the KEF 207's and they are not chalk and cheese.

Nick,

Thank you for the clarification. I am not aware / familiar with the Meridian house sound and if this is so, then I can rule out a brand completely!

I am looking forward for the Vivid Auditio and I really loved the sound of Kef 201/2 at home!

 

[ellisdj]

I certainly believe that active / dsp speakers are the way of the future.

Have you considered using room equalisation? The LF problems you describe are more likely to be room resonance problems than the speaker themselves.

I do believe in that as well and I will not give up.

Yes, I have PEQ in the CP-800 however these speakers were heard at dealer audition room and with R100s in the same room, they sounded alright..

I will keep an open mind on DSP!

Meridian systems only use DSP / EQ in the bass region - there is a big article they have written why eq from bass up is bad - to do time domains etc.

I have not read it all - but these guys do know their stuff so I have taken on board their arguement.

I on the other hand firmly believe in Room equalisation as much for music and films - I am sure there is a valid reason why its bad, however I wouldnt dream of listening to a system now without it.

Therefore if you are used to hearing a system that has EQ - every system that is not EQ'd will sound off in regions / bad as they are likely nowhere near reference / flat curve (assuming thats what the Classe has done for you).

Therefore I am suprised you have gone now the active speakers route in the first place, room eq is missing from those options

I think its great that a Classe Stereo Preamp / processor has it in - normally eq is shunned by high fi brands.

Maybe the Meridian sound isnt for you - but your opinion of it is not 100% accurate the overall meridian sound - using a mac to feed it they would say would have a large negative effect - they would point you at a MC200 / MD600 Core / Storage to an MS600 then on again digitally to the speakers or out via the analogue on the MS600.

Check out these reviews

http://www.hifi-advice.com/Meridian-MD600-MS600-review.html

http://www.hifi-advice.com/Meridian-818-review.html

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Yes, I am willing to experiment in a slightly convoluted way 'cos I also wish that HiFi fits in home rather than home needs to fit for HiFi which seems more likely

I know exactly what you mean. I don't have a huge living room but it's not puny either, approx 4,5m * 4m. my MG12s fit in quite OK. but I know that if I wanted to upgrade to a larger model (I think I'll make a jump straight to MG3.7, omitting MG1.7, not to mention that I'd like to try out a true ribbon model, my Magnepans are quasi ribbons) I'll have to upgrade my apartment too .

The point is - I love the concept of Planar speakers and I have never heard them. The little I read, told me they are fussy about positioning and they are generally huge to look at which makes them out of the equation, for me.

that's not exactly what is my experience. if you give them about 3ft behind them they should be fine, but more is better. and in case of flat speakers 3ft is not such a bad thing. it's like you left 2ft behind typical box speakers, which is arguably the minimum clearance distance from back wall for typical box speakers. the front of both speakers will be more or less on the same plane.

the only thing where planars may cause more trouble is bass IME. every room will have resonances and anti-resonances in bass. and the only really good thing to fight them is to set up bass traps. I have a bass reinforcement in region of 40 - 50 Hz and then corresponding suck out around 100 - 150 Hz in my room. I'm getting a feeling that room nodes with MG12 are stronger excited than with Focus 110, which means the 40Hz resonance sounds more powerful and 100Hz region very lightweight in comparison. this on some bass heavy recordings gives strange tonality. it's like the lowest bass comes from a completely different set of speakers. but this is the only bad thing I can tell about MG12s. and it's not really the fault of the speakers but my room.

Right now, I am looking forward to some possibly 'out of the box' speakers like Anthony Gallo Strada and the reviews say that then sound a lot like ESL.. I will keep us posted!

I also heard good things about Anthony Gallo speakers. good thing they use no xover. only mechanical attenuation between drivers apply. way to go Wish Tree! but I'm getting a feeling that comparing dynamic speakers, even from Gallo, to ESLs is a little bit far fetched IMO...

still, awaiting your report.

 

[Overdose]

If you spent £4k on 'pro audio' instead of 'high-end', I reckon you'd hear a completely different side to actives. That sort of money would get you some very capable monitors indeed, with enough left over for a couple of screens to hide them.

 

[WishTree]

If you spent £4k on 'pro audio' instead of 'high-end', I reckon you'd hear a completely different side to actives. That sort of money would get you some very capable monitors indeed, with enough left over for a couple of screens to hide them.

I might but I was constantly driven away sub consciously that pro audio is designed to show everything in the recording where as my hobby is only to enjoy the music at the highest quality possible / affordable. I might be wrong here but somehow pro audio equals to honest / analytical / unforgiving

 

[WishTree]

I also heard good things about Anthony Gallo speakers. good thing they use no xover. only mechanical attenuation between drivers apply. way to go Wish Tree! but I'm getting a feeling that comparing dynamic speakers, even from Gallo, to ESLs is a little bit far fetched IMO...

still, awaiting your report.

For me 3 feet behind the speaker front plane is not possible.. Once I move to the new place (in few months), I will post some pictures and I bet you will feel sorry for me for the smallness of the room

At the moment I am into things which work on wall or placed close to the wall.

I never would think Stradas can be compared to ESLs however the 6moons review did that which is still surprising to me to the extent of I do not believe it !!

We will see as I will be getting the speakers in a week's time however I would still not be able to comment on the comparision to ESL as I never heard ESLs

One thing I am excited about Stradas are that they perform even better with closer to the back wall! What a bonus for a person who has such small listening space!

 

[WishTree]

Maybe the Meridian sound isnt for you - but your opinion of it is not 100% accurate the overall meridian sound - using a mac to feed it they would say would have a large negative effect - they would point you at a MC200 / MD600 Core / Storage to an MS600 then on again digitally to the speakers or out via the analogue on the MS600.

Check out these reviews

http://www.hifi-advice.com/Meridian-MD600-MS600-review.html

http://www.hifi-advice.com/Meridian-818-review.html

I understand EQ to some extent. Though the CP-800 has PEQ, I only used them with my previous speakers to tame the shoutiness. With the current R300s EQ is off.

Honestly just with AC200 and DSP 3200, if the Meridian system is not willing to work perfectly and needs an MC200 as well, then I am sorry.

My CP-800 accept the Mac Mini USB with out fuss and same goes with all the other DAC I had before. So it is purely irrational to me that though AC200 has USB input, it would not work with Mac Mini (which IMO has very good sound out of the box) very well and needs some more investment.

I give it to that what I heard might not be Meridian sound but what ever I heard was definetly not worth 5600 Pounds or even 1/3rd of it. Purely my view based on my audition.

 

[Overdose]

If you spent £4k on 'pro audio' instead of 'high-end', I reckon you'd hear a completely different side to actives. That sort of money would get you some very capable monitors indeed, with enough left over for a couple of screens to hide them.

I might but I was constantly driven away sub consciously that pro audio is designed to show everything in the recording where as my hobby is only to enjoy the music at the highest quality possible / affordable. I might be wrong here but somehow pro audio equals to honest / analytical / unforgiving

I hear what you are saying, but you are largely at the mercy of the recording. If you start with a neutral and dynamic speaker, harsh recordings can be EQ'd to suit, that is afterall what a coloured system does, but with much broader strokes and to all recordings, as opposed to selected ones.

One mans meat is another mans cliche and all that, but I've yet to listen to anything that causes me to want to switch off the system. If I like a particular piece of music, I'd happily listen to it on a mono FM radio in the kitchen for example. The enjoyment is in the music, or at least should be. Too much angst is given out to making ones system sound just so. Such small degrees are easily dealt with via EQ.

You have a lovely looking and capable system, do you really need more? Always remember that everyones system is someones dream system.

 

[WishTree]

You have a lovely looking and capable system, do you really need more? Always remember that everyones system is someones dream system.

Thank you!

I do not really need more in electronics but with respect to speakers I have an upcoming physical requirement (relocation which means I need speakers which play well on wall or pushed agaist wall) and a bit more smooth & joyous sound.

As you said, a good recording is always fun to listen to even on my wife's all in one!

 

[Overdose]

Do try the Event Opals if you can, if only to dispel any active aversion. You can then retire back to more comfortable passive surroundings.

 

[ellisdj]

I had previously posted about Meridian Kit having a slightly recessed mid range - I think I had rea dthat somewhere

Well I had a little listen to my system yesterday Meridian MC200 / MS600 and if anything the Mid Range is its strongest quality, followed by the bass with a slightly dark treble - which is how this partnership is reviewed.

The Mid Range is big and clear where it needs to be, or soft and sudductive when the music is the opposite - the upscaling really adds a lot to the mid range and it really is a sweet mid range - very realistic but still musical.

The vocal / mid range is not recessed but it just sits in with the rest of the music, not exaagarated - detailed but smooth - that is the Meridian House Sound as I know it - why I Spent my money on it

 

[WishTree]

I had previously posted about Meridian Kit having a slightly recessed mid range - I think I had rea dthat somewhere

Well I had a little listen to my system yesterday Meridian MC200 / MS600 and if anything the Mid Range is its strongest quality, followed by the bass with a slightly dark treble - which is how this partnership is reviewed.

The Mid Range is big and clear where it needs to be, or soft and sudductive when the music is the opposite - the upscaling really adds a lot to the mid range and it really is a sweet mid range - very realistic but still musical.

The vocal / mid range is not recessed but it just sits in with the rest of the music, not exaagarated - detailed but smooth - that is the Meridian House Sound as I know it - why I Spent my money on it

I don't think I got the point.

In the beginning of the thread you mentioned "The mid range is maybe slightly recessed in its presentation and there is always a lot of bass" now after your careful listen "The vocal / mid range is not recessed but it just sits in with the rest of the music, not exaagarated"

Anyways..

What I heard is AC200 with DSP 3200 where as it looks like what you have is none of these components.. May be that explains why my experience with your 'second' experience difference..

it is all good as long as your system is delivering to your expectations where as it was not that in my case with the audition of AC200 with DSP 3200.

 

[BenLaw]

I had previously posted about Meridian Kit having a slightly recessed mid range - I think I had rea dthat somewhere

Well I had a little listen to my system yesterday Meridian MC200 / MS600 and if anything the Mid Range is its strongest quality, followed by the bass with a slightly dark treble - which is how this partnership is reviewed.

The Mid Range is big and clear where it needs to be, or soft and sudductive when the music is the opposite - the upscaling really adds a lot to the mid range and it really is a sweet mid range - very realistic but still musical.

The vocal / mid range is not recessed but it just sits in with the rest of the music, not exaagarated - detailed but smooth - that is the Meridian House Sound as I know it - why I Spent my money on it

I don't think I got the point.

In the beginning of the thread you mentioned "The mid range is maybe slightly recessed in its presentation and there is always a lot of bass" now after your careful listen "The vocal / mid range is not recessed but it just sits in with the rest of the music, not exaagarated"

The only explanation I can think of is that his 'little listen' was actually his first listen to his system :?

 

[ellisdj]

I had previously posted about Meridian Kit having a slightly recessed mid range - I think I had rea dthat somewhere

Well I had a little listen to my system yesterday Meridian MC200 / MS600 and if anything the Mid Range is its strongest quality, followed by the bass with a slightly dark treble - which is how this partnership is reviewed.

The Mid Range is big and clear where it needs to be, or soft and sudductive when the music is the opposite - the upscaling really adds a lot to the mid range and it really is a sweet mid range - very realistic but still musical.

The vocal / mid range is not recessed but it just sits in with the rest of the music, not exaagarated - detailed but smooth - that is the Meridian House Sound as I know it - why I Spent my money on it

I don't think I got the point.

In the beginning of the thread you mentioned "The mid range is maybe slightly recessed in its presentation and there is always a lot of bass" now after your careful listen "The vocal / mid range is not recessed but it just sits in with the rest of the music, not exaagarated"

The only explanation I can think of is that his 'little listen' was actually his first listen to his system :?

I didn't finish writing that sentence in that post, I added it in at the end, after posting I realised I hadn't finished but it was too late rushing because of work - the mid range maybe considered recessed against shouty presentations, it would especially appear recessed if the upper bass was drowning it out like it sounds like it did in your demo

I also have had 0 time to listen lately due to the birth of my baby boy so I made some time, and posted what I think. I videod the system before and was going to put it on you tube but didn't realise you could only put 10 min videos on - I planned to put a link on here to show how it sounds but that will have to wait a bit until I can do it again or cut it down

Do some reading of the Meridian sources I mentioned - I bet what you read will correspond with what I have said in the latter post, not showing off but the Meridian sound is detailed and smooth and with the newer kit you get very close to the reference 808.3 standard playback which is pretty high. Lots of reviews of that player to give you more on the meridian sound.

Maybe Classe is more forward in presentation and thats what you are used to - that would make sense to pair with b&w speakers the owners.

 

[Overdose]

I videod the system before and was going to put it on you tube but didn't realise you could only put 10 min videos on - I planned to put a link on here to show how it sounds but that will have to wait a bit until I can do it again or cut it down

A flaw in the plan perhaps?

Do you not think that something might get a little lost in translation by listening to a home brewed video on youtube of a hifi system in action?

My mobile phone speakers would probably sound better.

 

[ellisdj]

I videod the system before and was going to put it on you tube but didn't realise you could only put 10 min videos on - I planned to put a link on here to show how it sounds but that will have to wait a bit until I can do it again or cut it down

A flaw in the plan perhaps?

Do you not think that something might get a little lost in translation by listening to a home brewed video on youtube of a hifi system in action?

My mobile phone speakers would probably sound better.

Your right there - I didn't get it all on a video not by a long shot but you can get an idea.

A good camera can pick up a fair bit, I have watched quite a few vids of peoples systems - some extreme high end just to get an idea of what they might be like to listen to.

I videod it as a test to see how much my new camera would pick up and if I could demonstrate a few things, like how speakers sound

 

[ellisdj]

Hi

Right I got about 20 minute with no baby in the house so got to fire the system up nearly properly and videod 2 songs.

I wanted to show the Meridian Sound - you will get an idea from this - let me know if you think the mid range is recessed??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7XpEqvFXZg&feature=youtu.be