Making two amplifiers wireless

[Louis]

Hellofellow human beings,

After getting totally lost in google searches I have come here to seek answers.

My situation is as follows:

I want to make two separate amplifiers (both with aux input) play from the same iphone/ipad simutaneously and without any audio quality loss/data compression. Price is definitely a factor, but I won't compromise much with audio quality, my demands for range however are very low.

Please come wtih any suggestions on how I can do the above.

 

[tino]

Hellofellow human beings,

After getting totally lost in google searches I have come here to seek answers.

My situation is as follows:

I want to make two separate amplifiers (both with aux input) play from the same iphone/ipad simutaneously and without any audio quality loss/data compression. Price is definitely a factor, but I won't compromise much with audio quality, my demands for range however are very low.

Please come wtih any suggestions on how I can do the above.

I suppose the cheapest way to do this (can't comment on audio quality) is to get two £15 Google Chromcast Audio devices from Curry's / PC World and set them up as an audio group - see https://support.google.com/chromecast/answer/6328691?hl=en-GB&ref_topic=6328727

 

[davedotco]

Do either of your amplifiers have a line out?

Are you comfortable adding an Airport Express to your network/setup?

 

[Louis]

I believe they do not, btw I am working with car amplifiers which I guess makes it a bit unusual. I have not been interrested in airport express as I hoped for a cheaper alternative, after all i only need aux or phono connection..

 

[davedotco]

I believe they do not, btw I am working with car amplifiers which I guess makes it a bit unusual. I have not been interrested in airport express as I hoped for a cheaper alternative, after all i only need aux or phono connection..

Then you will have to get a cable splitter and feed the signal simultaneously into the two amplifiers.

Hopefully the resulting impedance will not be low enough to cause a mismatch. If the amplifiers are the same you will get similar output from both, if not, who knows?

 

[Louis]

That would of cause be very simple, but it doesn't fit my needs of having the amps completely separatel, without cables running to each other. Sorry if this was unclear in the original post.

 

[Louis]

I suppose the cheapest way to do this (can't comment on audio quality) is to get two £15 Google Chromcast Audio devices from Curry's / PC World and set them up as an audio group - see https://support.google.com/chromecast/answer/6328691?hl=en-GB&ref_topic=6328727

That seems to be the best option so far, unfortunately pc world doesn't ship to denmark, so I probably have to pay the double ):

 

[davedotco]

I suppose the cheapest way to do this (can't comment on audio quality) is to get two £15 Google Chromcast Audio devices from Curry's / PC World and set them up as an audio group - see https://support.google.com/chromecast/answer/6328691?hl=en-GB&ref_topic=6328727

That seems to be the best option so far, unfortunately pc world doesn't ship to denmark, so I probably have to pay the double ):

Seems like a possibility though if you are using both amps (and speakers) in the same room/space I would be concerned about 'contention'. This is the tendency of two similar but separate digital devices to receive and process music data at a different rate, thus producing two music signals that are slightly out of sync.

Of no importance if they are in different rooms, the differences would be small, but it could matter if they are being used together in the same room.

 

[Louis]

I indeed am intending to use the whole system in the same room. Just to be clear it's the wireless transmision, In this case the google chromecasts, which causes the signal to be slightly out of sync? What about the amps, would they cause any sync problems if they were different models?

 

[davedotco]

I indeed am intending to use the whole system in the same room. Just to be clear it's the wireless transmision, In this case the google chromecasts, which causes the signal to be slightly out of sync? What about the amps, would they cause any sync problems if they were different models?

This is the issue where a dac/digital processor accepts digital data from another 'source', this might be another component, an online resource, anything. To make sure the data is received correctly, checks are performed as with any transfer of digital data. Data may be re-read or buffered to iron out timing issues and this will be different from device to device.

This may not be an issue in some cases but it is something that is routinely faced in studios, The Adam Artist monitors, for example, have a usb dac on board each speaker but require a sync cable between left and right. More sophisticated monitors from the likes of PMC and Dynaudio use elaborate PC control to keep everything in sync.

As I said, this may not be an issue in this case, but it is something worth bearing in mind.

 

[tino]

I indeed am intending to use the whole system in the same room. Just to be clear it's the wireless transmision, In this case the google chromecasts, which causes the signal to be slightly out of sync? What about the amps, would they cause any sync problems if they were different models?

Is it a big room, like a hall? How far apart are the amps going to be?

 

[Louis]

It is not that big a room 4x7 meters I think, which leaves the amp and speakers about 4 meters or 13 feet apart.

 

[andyjm]

I indeed am intending to use the whole system in the same room. Just to be clear it's the wireless transmision, In this case the google chromecasts, which causes the signal to be slightly out of sync? What about the amps, would they cause any sync problems if they were different models?

This is the issue where a dac/digital processor accepts digital data from another 'source', this might be another component, an online resource, anything. To make sure the data is received correctly, checks are performed as with any transfer of digital data. Data may be re-read or buffered to iron out timing issues and this will be different from device to device.

This may not be an issue in some cases but it is something that is routinely faced in studios, The Adam Artist monitors, for example, have a usb dac on board each speaker but require a sync cable between left and right. More sophisticated monitors from the likes of PMC and Dynaudio use elaborate PC control to keep everything in sync.

As I said, this may not be an issue in this case, but it is something worth bearing in mind.

The amps will have no effect - they effectively pass the signal through almost immediately.

Synchronous digital protocols will also be fine, so S/PDIF (optical or coax output from a TV/streamer/CD player) is synchronous and will always be in step.

Analogue wireless will also be fine. There used to be a range of analogue wireless signal links available - but I haven't checked recently. The transmission range was rubbish, but they did just about work across a room OK.

What is not fine (as Dave points out) are asynchronous / packet switched systems. This would include the WiFi, USB and network based solutions linked to above. Data is sent in discrete packets, and depending on what else is happening on the network, separate receivers may get out of step. The solution (as used by Sonos, Squeezebox and others) is to timestamp the packets and have the receivers buffer the data to bring it back in step. This needs to be designed into the system, and if the system you choose doesn't have it, there is no way you can fix it.

Rather than try and reinvent the wheel, have you thought about using a Sonos system? The new Play 5 is supposed to be quite good, and it does have the benefit of digital room correction.

 

[andyjm]

The O/P's requirement is not unusual, and I am sure others have replied to similar queries.

What is needed is a streamer / amp unit that could be mounted below / above a speaker to turn it into an active wireless speaker. This would give the perfect minimalist system, just the speakers, no other boxes required (well maybe an iPhone / Android controller and a source of music - internet streaming or a NAS).

There are manufacturers who have bespoke solutions, but Sonos are clearly the market leader in terms of installed base of wireless speakers. The challenge is that speakers are a personal choice, and not everyone want a Sonos speaker.

There are a couple of solutions.

1. Sonos could launch an updated, single channel, modern version of the Connect:Amp. The current version of the Connect:Amp is stereo, and it is so old Noah had one installed on the Ark. I am not sure you can link two as a stereo pair, and it also looks like a large block of off-white Icecream. A slim, modern, unobtrusive, grey or black box with a mains socket and speaker connection placed on or under a speaker would fit the bill.

​2. Sonos could offer an OEM solution to existing speaker manufacturers who don't have the software and network nous to do it themselves. That would seem to be most speaker manufacturers. A Sonos unit could be mounted inside a speaker enclosure, or alternatively a simple fixing on the rear of the enclosure to allow the unit to be fitted would allow speaker to become an active streaming solution.

This would make Sonos the market standard, but is no different to Intel who supply the smarts used in most PCs. They could call it the Connect:Speaker. Perhaps I should send the idea to Sonos and see if they send me a £5 M&S voucher.

Edit: Just had another thought. Keep the Connect:Speaker two channel, and you can then have a DSP active speaker solution. This would cater to speaker manufacturers who haven't moved beyond MDF / woodglue skills and give them an active / wireless / DSP solution. The various Sonos units already have the DSP smarts to do this. Another £5 M&S voucher?