Mains conditioners

[pete321]

Perhaps this is one to consider over the Russ Andrews model.

"Our entry level plug-in mains noise filter. Don't be fooled into thinking the performance is small - we've packed a lot of filtering ability into this neat package. Ideal for plugging in near household items that cause noise eg. Fridges and washing machines. This plug offers 2X more filtering capacitance and superior spike clamping than a very well known £40 filter."

 

[the record spot]

aliEnRIK:
With regards to hearing and seeing. Its a biological FACT that some people can see better than others and some people can hear better than others. Not to mention some people cant see or hear at all.

Im not 'suggesting' anything other than that 'fact'

Its also well known that some people have better perception than others (ie, they 'notice' things others dont)

Yes, people have different capabilities in their senses. My issue with this line of reasoning is it's being used to infer that, subsequently, they will hear things emitting from their stereo when they use - in this case - a mains conditioner. It's a reliance on not fully understanding what the ear can hear, but it's flawed logic in this context as I understand it.

What are we talking about hearing in this case - greater "space" around the instruments? More decay when a violin string is plucked? The light inhalation of breath just before a singer commences a piece? And the like...

Miniscule stuff. And where you already have a pretty revealing system (see my signature for mine - it is) what am I missing out on here? Well, I already get the decay on strings when they're plucked, or the reverberation of a tom-tom when a drummer hits it, I've got "space" and "atmosphere" aplenty, because the recordings I have are mastered to emphasise the recording session and not add unnecessary EQ, limiting or compression. My ears, in this context, work well and I am happy - and confident - that when I say there is no difference, there really is no audible difference.

And incidentally, this isn't based on one song and then swap over, it's based on running this stuff for a couple of weeks, then removing it. I make a point of it, because ultimately, it's not a case of being a naysayer, or disbeliever, far from it. It's about being as objective as it is possible to be and giving the accessory the best chance to live up to the claims made about it. In the end, in my experience, the ones I've tried don't ultimately live up to those claims.

Which isn't, of course, the same as saying that this is true across the board - it might well be that a £500 or £5000 cable will do something spectacular. It's just that I won't be spending that money to find out. What I can say with some degree of confidence is that I've given a fair crack of the whip to a LOT of products that have various claims and review ratings around them and their less expensive brethren deliver just as well. And for mains conditioners, well, use a bog standard extension lead and have confidence in the onboard filtration capabilities that the equipment already has. It is more than enough.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Have you ever thought spot that we both might be right? Its simply the area we live in thats making the difference?

 

[audioaffair]

An interesting discussion - its worth trying a piece of music you're used to when making changes to your system. Although we're human, not robots and can't be a constant variable in the process, I'm confident most have the senses and hearing quality needed to hear changes in the music - if they do then its something worth adding to their system, if they don't they could consider something else. Demming kit you're unsure of before buying is the way forward in this regard.

 

[the record spot]

aliEnRIK:Have you ever thought spot that we both might be right? Its simply the area we live in thats making the difference?

Possibly Mr. R, but I'd still be inclined to disagree that the quality of hearing has a major bearing (for anyone with relatively normal hearing, even with age taken into account - folk who are as deaf as a post don't count though!) on what they hear when an accessory is added or removed for reasons I've already mentioned.

Just out of interest, that Atlas Titan, I nearly pulled the trigger on a cheap one of those - £110 from £300 or so. What's your take on it? I took the view that if there was any improvement to be had, I might as well buy something that should have a bearing at £300. In the end I decided against it - Christmas coming and all that, so I didn't bother. Not much on the web on it but interested to hear your views on where you thought it majored?

 

[the record spot]

audioaffair:An interesting discussion - its worth trying a piece of music you're used to when making changes to your system. Although we're human, not robots and can't be a constant variable in the process, I'm confident most have the senses and hearing quality needed to hear changes in the music - if they do then its something worth adding to their system, if they don't they could consider something else. Demming kit you're unsure of before buying is the way forward in this regard.

Yep, agreed - I tend to go with the title track from Joni Mitchell's "Night Ride Home", Genesis "A Trick of the Tail" album (first edition), and The Yes Album, particularly the "Starship Trooper" track. Again, I use the first edition, not the remasters. There's others obviously (Charlie Haden and Keith Jarret's CD from earlier this year for instance), but those three are the main staples for demoing gear.

 

[aliEnRIK]

the record spot:aliEnRIK:Have you ever thought spot that we both might be right? Its simply the area we live in thats making the difference?

Possibly Mr. R, but I'd still be inclined to disagree that the quality of hearing has a major bearing (for anyone with relatively normal hearing, even with age taken into account - folk who are as deaf as a post don't count though!) on what they hear when an accessory is added or removed for reasons I've already mentioned.

Just out of interest, that Atlas Titan, I nearly pulled the trigger on a cheap one of those - £110 from £300 or so. What's your take on it? I took the view that if there was any improvement to be had, I might as well buy something that should have a bearing at £300. In the end I decided against it - Christmas coming and all that, so I didn't bother. Not much on the web on it but interested to hear your views on where you thought it majored?

I doubt the Atlas would make any difference due to the speaker cable you use being a bottleneck (Just my opinion) so £110 well saved there spot. My personal experience showed it wasnt a massive leap from the van damme I was using, but definitely more detail and bass is VERY low. Cymbals and other sounds around that frequency sound so much more 'real'.

As for hearing (And im stating this just so people are aware), tests have shown that a portion of the population actually hear 'differently' to what they 'should' be hearing as frequencies are physically changed as they enter the ear due to the actual shape. Any 'phase shifts' of this type would mean theyre quite capable of hearing the full spectrum, but not as it should be heard and theyll almost certainly lose detail due to the phase shifts. This loss of detail would easily account for why some people can hear differences and others cant. Its not all about hearing aids.

 

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK:As for hearing (And im stating this just so people are aware), tests have shown that a portion of the population actually hear 'differently' to what they 'should' be hearing as frequencies are physically changed as they enter the ear due to the actual shape. Any 'phase shifts' of this type would mean theyre quite capable of hearing the full spectrum, but not as it should be heard and theyll almost certainly lose detail due to the phase shifts. This loss of detail would easily account for why some people can hear differences and others cant. Its not all about hearing aids. All well and good, but any connection to the subject of dispute here is completely unproven.

Please note: I make no comment about whether differences are real or not. My take is entirely about the logic.

 

[Anonymous]

The best sounding systems used to be the ones that were not connected to the 240v mains at all but run on dc voltage supplied by batteries, this was known years ago.

So if you want your system to sound at its best have it coverted to dc and run it on rechargerble batteries or if you dont want to convert you system from AC to DC ,then buy a AC TO DC TO AC power supply they cost about £500.

 

[Anonymous]

When it comes to hifi and mains, stating that anything is 'known' is probably unwise...

 

[Frank Harvey]

Low, battery supplied voltages are more stable than higher mains supplied ones....

 

[Anonymous]

What I mean by 'Know' is that DC is a cleaner source of power hense it is Direct current it does not go up and down in its power supply delivery, it does not spike and is also unaffected by outside sources. Because of this smooth delivery of power it does not make your system components slave meaning they are not over worked to correct the delivery the hifi unit was designed to do.

AC is alternating current it goes back and forth in other words it is not smooth it jumps up and down and spikes, creating noise and making your system slave because one secound it is recieving 240 volts the next secound it is recieving 220 volts then 210 volts,in other words its is all over the place and because it it is connected to other outside sources on your ring mains this adds to its alternating behaver.

This is not a Myth or unwise in side the field or outside the field off hifi this is a Known in electric and electronics.

 

[RobGardner]

I like the effect of mains conditioners on my system, although if I lay all the money I have spent on them end to end I would have enough to have purchased a bigger and more powerful power amp which would probably sound better, and no one could argue that it wouldn't look different, (or could they?)

It strikes me that this subject was comprehensively covered in 1726 by Johnathon Swift in Gulliver's Travels, We seem to be either Bigendians or Littlendians, the important thing is that we both enjoy the egg in the middle!

 

[Anonymous]

LOL , Yes it is true about the egg.

As for spending more money on a better amp this is also true as well, depending on how much money you are willing to spend it will more than likly come with a better built in power supply unit (psu),that will smooth out the ripples in the 240v current before it gives it to the electronic components. Linn do this in there new range of hifi.

As for most of us working on a tight budget, I tend to do things DIY and make my own power cables that are sheilded and have silver plated connection contacts. I make these for £16.50 each for a meter length. I don't think you have to spend a fortune on mains supply a good mains conditioner pluged into a silver plated wall socket that has its own earthing rod, plus the sheiled power cables that are silver plated to each hifi unit

This can all be done on a budget of £200.00. I think that is where the myth is, when unessary large amounts of money are spent on mains supply , you only need to smooth out the supply current and stop it from spiking and then sheild it from RF and thats about it and does not cost a lot of money to do. plus it prolongs the life of the hifi unit as its not slaving to do its task.

 

[steve_1979]

I bought a mains filter and plugged my microwave and kettle into it, since then the food has tasted so much better and the water boils in a more pleasing manner than before.

 

[datay]

Wow, never heard that one before.

 

[Anonymous]

i'd love it if someone could explain just how an aftermarket mains cable can lead to better sound/picture etc quality..?

 

[datay]

The title of the thread is "Mains conditioners", not cables. And plenty of people have explained it. They're usually selling them of course, but there you go.

 

[Anonymous]

steve_1979:

I bought a mains filter and plugged my microwave and kettle into it, since then the food has tasted so much better and the water boils in a more pleasing manner than before.

Perhaps you should have pluged yourself into it and filter that sarcasome of yours.....

 

[aliEnRIK]

maxflinn:i'd love it if someone could explain just how an aftermarket mains cable can lead to better sound/picture etc quality..?

Better shielding prevents airbourne EMI from getting into the mains supply

Braided types remove RFI from within the mains supply itself

Lowering RFI has been proven to affect amplifiers at its output

 

[steve_1979]

darrell 1966:

Perhaps you should have pluged yourself into it and filter that sarcasome of yours.....

I've just ordered a Tacima mains filter yesterday and am now waiting with open minded scepticism to see how well it works when it arrives. I have high hopes because I live in an old victorian house with less than perfect wiring which seems to cause alot of interfefance on the TV with both freeview and DVD's.

 

[Anonymous]

Surely the answer is to audition the "wonder cable" any cable!, at your local av dealer, it would be expected that said cable would be in use to provide the ultimate performance from the demo units, and an extra sale, if not why not?, look and listen, replace with your STANDARD CABLE (which you brought with you) and be wowed by the REDUCTION in performance ,or not?.

 

[Anonymous]

I love it when people tell me that this subject wether it be mains conditioners or mains cables and interconections are a myth or some kind of concept accepted only by morons. You might aswell stick a big sign on your head saying :

( I HAVENT A CLUE HOW LINEAR ELECTRONICS WORKS )

Instead of telling people that they are wrong or falls for buying into it, Why dont you stand up to the mark be brave and tell use that you have studied this subject , then explain to us why it cant work and give us reasons on a Linear Electronic bases your findings and testing results coming to a evident conclusion.

Dont be completly passive by saying stupid things like " When I bought a New Amp the shop keeper didn,t offer me a mains conditioner or a shielded mains cable, therefore the problem does'nt excist. In order to understand this subject or any electric or electonic behaver please go some distance in looking into and educating yourself . Listed below are some of the basic subject matters that concern designers in the electric and electronic world. Theses are not myths that they waste time on they are scientific fact

http://www.ebook3000.com/The-Art-of-Linear-Electronics--Second-Edition_60163.html : Have a go at reading this for a start :

Johnsons Noise

Shot Noise (Current Flow Noise)

Flicker (defect noise)

Noise Figure or Noise Factor

Low Noise Circuit Design

MOSFET's

Microhony

OV Line Potential

Noise from External Sources

Mians Hum

Screening

Balanced Cables.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Well said Darrell. Lets see how many sheep come forward.........

 

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK:Well said Darrell. Lets see how many sheep come forward.........

mains cables, pah, what do we need to understand electricity for? our shearer only uses the one that came with his electric shears, and it never ever ever suffers from rfi

we'll be skint to the bone come spring.. ba-a-a-a-a-ah...