Low volume, high quality

[unsleepable]

I totally concur with that. And it's such a pleasure when you just play some music and don't have to bang it all up to feel it and joy it.

Not that banging every now and then hurts either.

 

[Neptune_Twilight]

I think it is something that could become an issue for more and more people. Homes are getting smaller, it is getting more and more difficult to be able to afford a house rather than a flat, and even in houses sound insulation can be pretty poor. Being able to enjoy music in high quality at low volume levels is probably a bigger need now than it has ever been.

Something that's not mentioned much in tests though? I was thinking about this after a conversation about systems sounding good at low volumes a few weeks ago, maybe it's something What Hi-Fi could pick up on is how speakers & selected systems sound at low volumes as not all of us have neighbour free environments & I'm not much of a headphones fan - This thread shows some like or need to listen at low volumes, maybe a feature on such systems? - Just a thought? ~

 

[Vladimir]

Have micro and macro dynamics as part of the reviews as well. 🙂

 

[plastic penguin]

Think there also needs to be modicum of realism; though some systems do excel at low volumes, every system (amps and speakers in particular) need a bit of welly to hear it at its best -- that's just the nature of the beast.

Although I love Totem Arros, they tend to be more welly-reliant than some other makes, including PMCs IMHO. That, in all truth, was a major deciding factor in not buying.

 

[Glacialpath]

Since updating my Cambridge Audio amp from the A1 to the C500 and P500 and adding the Chord Company cables there is a much more even playback at all volumes.

Having it loud still yeilds more but it always will. With the A1 at low volume the balance would move to one side. To be honest I haven't really tried the C+P500 that low but it can go lower than the A1 without the balance being effected.

I'm going through a phase where I want things about 2/3s the way to reference level. Obviously listening at that volume for to long will damage my hearing but the I'm not usually in the same room as the system. My flat os only about 28x28ft square so I don't go far.

 

[Vladimir]

Human hearing loudness curve. The speakers and the amp don't really need that much a welly up. Our hearing does. Speakers that are not FR flat and have a coloration, may favor lower listening levels (frowny face) or louder listening (smiley face). If a speaker sounds detailed and clear at lower listening, it may be too bright and harsh when turned up louder.

It's the Goldilocks dilema.

 

[Singslinger]

We all know the real challenge is making a system sound good at loud listening levels where things fall apart.

Dolby Volume does a good job at low listening levels, but it's an AV solution: http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-volume-tech-paper.pdf

For 2 channel, a good Class A amp (Valves or SS) with sensitive speakers is a good way to go.

Absolutely right. My bedroom system is a Sugden A21SE class A amp into ProAc D2 speakers with PS Audio DAC/transport as the source - excellent detail and enjoyment at low volume.

To answer the OP - yes, it's very important to me that the system sounds involving at low volume. It's easy to impress when you turn the wick up but IMHO the true test of how good (or bad) a system is comes when you listen quietly.

 

[plastic penguin]

Human hearing loudness curve. The speakers and the amp don't really need that much a welly up. Our hearing does. Speakers that are not FR flat and have a coloration, may favor lower listening levels (frowny face) or louder listening (smiley face). If a speaker sounds detailed and clear at lower listening, it may be too bright and harsh when turned up louder.

It's the Goldilocks dilema.

Eh?! What?! I've got squiffy hearing!

More seriously, there are squillions of these hi-fi graphs/studies, and very few IMO can be backed up in a normal living environment -- no doubt have a lot credence in a controlled environment, such as a lab.

 

[AEJim]

I expect some part of this has to do with the ear's sensitivity to different frequencies - at around 90dB (reasonably loud in the home) we hear frequencies in a pretty balanced fashion, at lower volumes the ear becomes less sensitive to bass in particular, if you have a warm sounding or bass heavy system (or just one with speakers placed near a wall, giving them a LF boost) then it will probably sound quite pleasant and balanced at slightly lower volumes while it may get a little heavy or congested when turned up. If the system is perfectly balanced then it may sound a little lightweight at lower volumes etc... Simplifying a little of course but it could well be a factor.

 

[Electro]

This may be the reason that PMC speakers sound equally good at low listening levels .*smile*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=683FoCDilOE#t=1m04

 

[plastic penguin]

I expect some part of this has to do with the ear's sensitivity to different frequencies - at around 90dB (reasonably loud in the home) we hear frequencies in a pretty balanced fashion, at lower volumes the ear becomes less sensitive to bass in particular, if you have a warm sounding or bass heavy system (or just one with speakers placed near a wall, giving them a LF boost) then it will probably sound quite pleasant and balanced at slightly lower volumes while it may get a little heavy or congested when turned up. If the system is perfectly balanced then it may sound a little lightweight at lower volumes etc... Simplifying a little of course but it could well be a factor.

Yup, pretty much subscribe to your sentiments. Also believe room topography plays a part, the type of furniture etc etc; have to say that PMC, from the speakers I've heard, manages, somehow, to hit the ideal compromise.

 

[Vladimir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZlKIBbTB-w

 

[Neptune_Twilight]

When funding allows & my ‘fully independent offspring’ ? that have moved out (and the one still here) impose less of a strain on my ever dwindling disposable income, PMC's from my reading on here recently are going to be top of my list for auditioning. (assuming by that time I'm not totally deaf or daft)

 

[chebby]

Human hearing loudness curve. The speakers and the amp don't really need that much a welly up. Our hearing does. Speakers that are not FR flat and have a coloration, may favor lower listening levels (frowny face) or louder listening (smiley face). If a speaker sounds detailed and clear at lower listening, it may be too bright and harsh when turned up louder.

It's the Goldilocks dilema.

Eh?! What?! I've got squiffy hearing!

More seriously, there are squillions of these hi-fi graphs/studies, and very few IMO can be backed up in a normal living environment -- no doubt have a lot credence in a controlled environment, such as a lab.

The phenomena these curves illustrate is very well known and the reason for all those ill-named 'loudness' buttons that were so common on amps in the 1970s and 80s. Obviously people just pressed the button and left them on permanently along with maxed out bass and treble and some quite bizarre shapes on their graphic equalizers (the 'Brontosaurus back' * was a popular one).

If they'd been called 'quietness' buttons instead (and designed to cut-out automatically above a certain volume) things might have been better.

The Naim Unitiqute has a switchable contour for low level listening that adjusts to volume and cuts out automatically in this way.

* Apatosaurus for all those under 40.

 

[plastic penguin]

Human hearing loudness curve. The speakers and the amp don't really need that much a welly up. Our hearing does. Speakers that are not FR flat and have a coloration, may favor lower listening levels (frowny face) or louder listening (smiley face). If a speaker sounds detailed and clear at lower listening, it may be too bright and harsh when turned up louder.

It's the Goldilocks dilema.

Eh?! What?! I've got squiffy hearing!

More seriously, there are squillions of these hi-fi graphs/studies, and very few IMO can be backed up in a normal living environment -- no doubt have a lot credence in a controlled environment, such as a lab.

The phenomena these curves illustrate is very well known and the reason for all those ill-named 'loudness' buttons that were so common on amps in the 1970s and 80s. Obviously people just pressed the button and left them on permanently along with maxed out bass and treble and some quite bizarre shapes on their graphic equalizers (the 'Brontosaurus back' * was a popular one).

If they'd been called 'quietness' buttons instead (and designed to cut-out automatically above a certain volume) things might have been better.

The Naim Unitiqute has a switchable contour for low level listening that adjusts to volume and cuts out automatically in this way.

* Apatosaurus for all those under 40.

Yes, but from memory, those 'loudness' buttons or switches only worked at low levels. Once you got over approx 9-9.30 on the volume dial they didn't work. You couldn't tell if it was pressed in or out.

 

[chebby]

Human hearing loudness curve. The speakers and the amp don't really need that much a welly up. Our hearing does. Speakers that are not FR flat and have a coloration, may favor lower listening levels (frowny face) or louder listening (smiley face). If a speaker sounds detailed and clear at lower listening, it may be too bright and harsh when turned up louder.

It's the Goldilocks dilema.

Eh?! What?! I've got squiffy hearing!

More seriously, there are squillions of these hi-fi graphs/studies, and very few IMO can be backed up in a normal living environment -- no doubt have a lot credence in a controlled environment, such as a lab.

The phenomena these curves illustrate is very well known and the reason for all those ill-named 'loudness' buttons that were so common on amps in the 1970s and 80s. Obviously people just pressed the button and left them on permanently along with maxed out bass and treble and some quite bizarre shapes on their graphic equalizers (the 'Brontosaurus back' * was a popular one).

If they'd been called 'quietness' buttons instead (and designed to cut-out automatically above a certain volume) things might have been better.

The Naim Unitiqute has a switchable contour for low level listening that adjusts to volume and cuts out automatically in this way.

* Apatosaurus for all those under 40.

Yes, but from memory, those 'loudness' buttons or switches only worked at low levels. Once you got over approx 9-9.30 on the volume dial they didn't work. You couldn't tell if it was pressed in or out.

A few of the more expensive Yamaha amps did*, but most didn't. Some had 'variable' loudness controls (but these were manually adjustable not automatic).

*There might have been some other exceptions apart from upper range Yamahas.

 

[plastic penguin]

Human hearing loudness curve. The speakers and the amp don't really need that much a welly up. Our hearing does. Speakers that are not FR flat and have a coloration, may favor lower listening levels (frowny face) or louder listening (smiley face). If a speaker sounds detailed and clear at lower listening, it may be too bright and harsh when turned up louder.

It's the Goldilocks dilema.

Eh?! What?! I've got squiffy hearing!

More seriously, there are squillions of these hi-fi graphs/studies, and very few IMO can be backed up in a normal living environment -- no doubt have a lot credence in a controlled environment, such as a lab.

The phenomena these curves illustrate is very well known and the reason for all those ill-named 'loudness' buttons that were so common on amps in the 1970s and 80s. Obviously people just pressed the button and left them on permanently along with maxed out bass and treble and some quite bizarre shapes on their graphic equalizers (the 'Brontosaurus back' * was a popular one).

If they'd been called 'quietness' buttons instead (and designed to cut-out automatically above a certain volume) things might have been better.

The Naim Unitiqute has a switchable contour for low level listening that adjusts to volume and cuts out automatically in this way.

* Apatosaurus for all those under 40.

Yes, but from memory, those 'loudness' buttons or switches only worked at low levels. Once you got over approx 9-9.30 on the volume dial they didn't work. You couldn't tell if it was pressed in or out.

A few of the more expensive Yamaha amps did*, but most didn't. Some had 'variable' loudness controls (but these were manually adjustable not automatic).

*There might have been some other exceptions apart from upper range Yamahas.

Well my JVC receiver did, as did the Pioneer SA-706.

When I first met Mrs. P she had a Pioneer mini (midi) system which had a 'Bass Boost' button. That constantly worked and there was just a welter of boomy bass. Whereas the 'loudness' buttons on my amps didn't just boost the bass but the midrange and treble.

 

[Jota180]

My Unitiqute 2, NAP 100 and LS50 sound great at low to mid volumes (99% of my listening). It's higher volumes that I can have bass issues with certain tracks. Not totally sure whether it's entirely the amp, speakers, suspended floor or the plasterboard walls behind them. Probably a combination of all of them but the bass at certain moments on some tracks seems to reinforce itself and can occasionally turn into a bass drone. It happens too infrequently to be much of an issue.

 

[Neptune_Twilight]

It's higher volumes that I can have bass issues with certain tracks.

Similar here, basically my system was setup with speaker placement to sound good with most music at moderate levels, if I listened to music at high levels (but only with some albums) I might need to drag to speakers out a little further - IMO it's always a bit of a balancing game as few systems sound just right with all music & or at all levels? For me it's setup for how its played most of the time.

 

[toyota man]

I have since buying my M6-500i found a new level of low volume detail which I didnt know was there I have also found at normal volume levels bass which you can feel and at higher volumes things fall off shelves which dosn't go down to well with the good lady wife *biggrin*

 

[Jota180]

It's higher volumes that I can have bass issues with certain tracks.

Similar here, basically my system was setup with speaker placement to sound good with most music at moderate levels, if I listened to music at high levels (but only with some albums) I might need to drag to speakers out a little further - IMO it's always a bit of a balancing game as few systems sound just right with all music & or at all levels? For me it's setup for how its played most of the time.

Mine are 80cm away from the back wall at present. (the rear of the speaker is 80cm) I tried them closer and with the outer bungs then closer still with the inner bungs too but prefer them with no bungs at all which means a good distance from the back wall.

Next time the neighbours are out I'll see if I can power through the drone with some extra volume!

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100003125078341]

hy there matthewpiano.

My sistem is made by an Exposure 1010 + KEF Q100 + Arcam IrDac.

do you think i should change the Kef q100 for the Dynaudio DM 2/6

would i get a huge improvement?