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Low budget amps,what choices do i have?

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Vladimir

New member
Dec 26, 2013
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gasolin said:
Electro said:
lindsayt said:
Vladimir said:
I have yet to hear a t-class amp that I didn't like the sound of. Even the cheapest cheapies from China easily sound as good as most sub $1000 integrateds.
That's interesting. I've hated every T amp I've heard. Play them some piano music and they sound all wrong.
Ahh but did you double blind test and level match the T amps when listening *biggrin*

But seriously the Poppulse T amps are in a completely league to the small cheap flea watt small chinese boxes, the weight of the T180 gives you a clue, in fact piano music is probably their forte. *smile*
Why don't you have one?
He would need 4 to use them as riser plinths for the AW180s. *crazy*
 

gasolin

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2013
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Looked at the amps http://poppulse.com.hk/category.php?name=PopPulse and i need input for pc,my cdplayer (happe with the sound don't want to use an external dac like the one in the t-180) and my turntable, it's not enough inputs on the 180 amp.

I use attenuators for my pc and turntable, meaning sound isn't loud when the volume is at 9 o'clock an max at 10 o'clock and distortion at 11o'clock. 9 o'clock it's normal listening level 12 o'clock it's loud and 3 o'clock it's really loud and no channel unbalance when the volume is low.

 

Electro

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2011
43
2
18,545
gasolin said:
Electro said:
lindsayt said:
Vladimir said:
I have yet to hear a t-class amp that I didn't like the sound of. Even the cheapest cheapies from China easily sound as good as most sub $1000 integrateds.
That's interesting. I've hated every T amp I've heard. Play them some piano music and they sound all wrong.
Ahh but did you double blind test and level match the T amps when listening *biggrin*

But seriously the Poppulse T amps are in a completely league to the small cheap flea watt small chinese boxes, the weight of the T180 gives you a clue, in fact piano music is probably their forte. *smile*
Why don't you have one?
I did , well a T150 it's smaller brother .

http://www.poppulse.com.hk/product.php?name=20160113154725

My Poppulse T150 was passed on to a mate of mine to replace his Cyrus pre / power amp with PSXR to power a pair of PMC DB1i's and it totally out performs the Cyrus combination in every area.
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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They are just so expensive in denmark where i live and lack 1 analog input

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYC1UGSP6eY

Sound like a good amp for the money

I need a phono stage and 2 analog inpute beside the one for a phonostage

Power like a nad c316bee or onkyo A-9010 just to clarify what i want for 400€ or less
 

gasolin

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2013
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The reviews of the ra-04 looks better but i can't find any where i live

https://www.whathifi.com/rotel/ra-04/review

https://www.whathifi.com/rotel/ra-10/review
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
289
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10,970
DougK said:
Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't you own a PM6004 or 6005 before you upgraded to the 8005?
yep he owned a marantz PM6005 so a marantz PM6006 will be the same as a 6005 and if he is looking at theses your going backwards .

what he has now is a good amp i would be looking at speakers not amps if it was me as the marantz PM8005 will sound very good with the right speakers .
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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Blacksabbath25 said:
DougK said:
Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't you own a PM6004 or 6005 before you upgraded to the 8005?
yep he owned a marantz PM6005 so a marantz PM6006 will be the same as a 6005 and if he is looking at theses your going backwards .

what he has now is a good amp i would be looking at speakers not amps if it was me as the marantz PM8005 will sound very good with the right speakers .
Nope

Marantz PM5005
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
289
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10,970
gasolin said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
DougK said:
Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't you own a PM6004 or 6005 before you upgraded to the 8005?
yep he owned a marantz PM6005 so a marantz PM6006 will be the same as a 6005 and if he is looking at theses your going backwards .

what he has now is a good amp i would be looking at speakers not amps if it was me as the marantz PM8005 will sound very good with the right speakers .
Nope

Marantz PM5005
I wouldn't bother with a marantz PM6005 or a PM6006 as your marantz PM8005 is far better amplifier I used to own the Marantz PM6005 it's ok but not in the same league as the marantz PM8005 and I would of thought the PM8005 has a better phono stage built inside anyway so you save money their .

What about trying some Dali opticon 1 or 2s are a very smooth clear and sounding speaker and would be better then your current speakers any day you could probably buy some opticon 2s on eBay less then £500 secondhand and you would not regret it .

Or you could buy a new or secondhand amplifier and 12 months want to change it again but if you want to change I respect that it's your money I am only trying to help you but speakers would be what I would change that's your weakest link .
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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To expesnsive

Opticon 1 Over-enthusiastic treble

https://www.whathifi.com/dali/opticon-1/review

Opticon 2 Require careful system matching Not the punchiest bass

https://www.whathifi.com/dali/opticon-2/review

No thanks, over enthusiastic treble and Require careful system matching, Not the punchiest bass
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
289
77
10,970
gasolin said:
To expesnsive

Opticon 1 Over-enthusiastic treble

https://www.whathifi.com/dali/opticon-1/review

Opticon 2 Require careful system matching Not the punchiest bass

https://www.whathifi.com/dali/opticon-2/review

No thanks, over enthusiastic treble and Require careful system matching, Not the punchiest bass
do not take any notice of what hifi reviews mate what hifi downed all of the opticon range including my Dali opticon 8s with a good amplifier like you have the opticon 2s would be good choice and if you wanted more punch in the bass add a sub
 

gasolin

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2013
732
118
19,070
Blacksabbath25 said:
gasolin said:
To expesnsive

Opticon 1 Over-enthusiastic treble

https://www.whathifi.com/dali/opticon-1/review

Opticon 2 Require careful system matching Not the punchiest bass

https://www.whathifi.com/dali/opticon-2/review

No thanks, over enthusiastic treble and Require careful system matching, Not the punchiest bass
do not take any notice of what hifi reviews mate what hifi downed all of the opticon range including my Dali opticon 8s with a good amplifier like you have the opticon 2s would be good choice and if you wanted more punch in the bass add a sub
Never gonna use a subwoofer for hifi been there, done that,not gonna happen again
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
740
301
5,270
gasolin said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
gasolin said:
To expesnsive 

Opticon 1 Over-enthusiastic treble

https://www.whathifi.com/dali/opticon-1/review

Opticon 2 Require careful system matching Not the punchiest bass

https://www.whathifi.com/dali/opticon-2/review

 

No thanks, over enthusiastic treble and Require careful system matching, Not the punchiest bass

 

 

 
do not take any notice of what hifi reviews mate what hifi downed all of the opticon range including my Dali opticon 8s with a good amplifier like  you have the opticon 2s would be good choice and if you wanted more punch in the bass add a sub 
 

Never gonna use a subwoofer for hifi been there, done that,not gonna happen again 
If you were unable to use a sub for music it's likely that you didn't integrate it well and/or had room acoustic issues and/or used a sub that's too slow.

I'm not surprised as I would never attempt to do it by ear. Using measurement mic on the other hand with an external crossover that not only sets frequencies but accounts for phase shifts is fairly easy.

Knowing how much you like bass I bet you'd love a properly setup sub of two with a pair of standmounts or even floorstanders.

What can be done with a sub is difficult to do even with big floorstanders.
 

gasolin

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2013
732
118
19,070
insider9 said:
gasolin said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
gasolin said:
To expesnsive

Opticon 1 Over-enthusiastic treble

https://www.whathifi.com/dali/opticon-1/review

Opticon 2 Require careful system matching Not the punchiest bass

https://www.whathifi.com/dali/opticon-2/review

No thanks, over enthusiastic treble and Require careful system matching, Not the punchiest bass
do not take any notice of what hifi reviews mate what hifi downed all of the opticon range including my Dali opticon 8s with a good amplifier like you have the opticon 2s would be good choice and if you wanted more punch in the bass add a sub
Never gonna use a subwoofer for hifi been there, done that,not gonna happen again
If you were unable to use a sub for music it's likely that you didn't integrate it well and/or had room acoustic issues and/or used a sub that's too slow.

I'm not surprised as I would never attempt to do it by ear. Using measurement mic on the other hand with an external crossover that not only sets frequencies but accounts for phase shifts is fairly easy.

Knowing how much you like bass I bet you'd love a properly setup sub of two with a pair of standmounts or even floorstanders.

What can be done with a sub is difficult to do even with big floorstanders.
Don't have the space for floostands speakers next to my pc
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
732
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You might allready know what i have bought ;-)

To finish this thread, i have bought a nad 3020E and it's musical,dynamic,loud and has a very good bass
 

Squall Leonhart

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2016
66
33
4,570
gasolin said:
You might allready know what i have bought ;-)

To finish this thread, i have bought a nad 3020E and it's musical,dynamic,loud and has a very good bass
How dfoes it compare to your PM8005 you was previously using?
 

gasolin

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2013
732
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There is a difference (Now i use a nad 3020i)

I didn't know if my 3020E was in top condition (old amp, didn't have any to compare it to), so when i had the change of a 3020i i bought one (was a little bit cheaper than my 3020E), banana plugs,pre out and main in, sound is different from the 3020E, a bit darker midrange,slightly warmer sound.

Both amps are loud beyond there size and price.

I changed the metal brackets (those for the pre out and main in) and my cable from my usb dac to my amp, those actually changed the sound so i chosed (although it's a bit expensive) to buy the rca jumpers from audioquest to hear how it sounds.

At high levels the top sounds better on the marantz, a bit softer, the nad is atleast as loud (positon of the volume knob) mabye even louder, it's a dynamic and punchy amp with a good bass, i think/feel that somehow the bass changed when i got new cables, tried my old Qed cable to my dac to my amp, since it didn't made any noticeable change in the bass, i desided the rca jumpers was doing something to the bass, so i wanted to try audioquest's rca jumpers. The nad amp is definitely a musical amp.

The cable i bought for my pc was the same as i used for my cdplayer (inakustik premium), but there was a little difference in the thickness, the cable for my pc has a very good sound with no emphasis on any frequency's. Somehow i feelt the cable wasn't as neutral as the cable i used for my cdplayer.

The marantz amp is more like a well dressed suit guy, almost to perfect, nad is more the bad guy who love's to party......rock n roll.

it's a fun amp, love to play loud and has a good bass.
 

gasolin

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2013
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Also much more power compared to the positioning of the volume knob, even when nad need 150mv and marant 200mv for max output as fare as i have read.

Should also sound even better with a better preamp
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
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gasolin said:
Also much more power compared to the positioning of the volume knob, even when nad need 150mv and marant 200mv for max output as fare as i have read.

Should also sound even better with a better preamp
You really should be aware that fitting a volume control that makes the amplifier go loud very quickly is one of the oldest marketing tricks in the hi-fi playbook.

I makes the unwary think that the amp is far more powerful than it actually is.
 

gasolin

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2013
732
118
19,070
davedotco said:
gasolin said:
Also much more power compared to the positioning of the volume knob, even when nad need 150mv and marant 200mv for max output as fare as i have read.

Should also sound even better with a better preamp
You really should be aware that fitting a volume control that makes the amplifier go loud very quickly is one of the oldest marketing tricks in the hi-fi playbook.

I makes the unwary think that the amp is far more powerful than it actually is.
I use -10 db attenuators and marantz does that do (loud volume knob), although theres a slightly differnce in watt, my nad amp is as loud or louder than the amp i had before, even when it was a 2x70watt in 8 ohm amp https://youtu.be/JhuWuTDZiuI?t=20m40s

Even when the volume knob is "loud", i still have to play ridiculous loud before there is distortion
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
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gasolin said:
davedotco said:
gasolin said:
Also much more power compared to the positioning of the volume knob, even when nad need 150mv and marant 200mv for max output as fare as i have read.

Should also sound even better with a better preamp
You really should be aware that fitting a volume control that makes the amplifier go loud very quickly is one of the oldest marketing tricks in the hi-fi playbook.

I makes the unwary think that the amp is far more powerful than it actually is.
I use -10 db attenuators and marantz does that do (loud volume knob), although theres a slightly differnce in watt, my nad amp is as loud or louder than the amp i had before, even when it was a 2x70watt in 8 ohm amp https://youtu.be/JhuWuTDZiuI?t=20m40s

Even when the volume knob is "loud", i still have to play ridiculous loud before there is distortion
Particularly less expensive models have often done this. A combination of conservative quoted specifications, decent current delivery and the ability to 'overload gracefully' allows their small amplifiers to perform really well in most real world situations.

The volume control issue though is rather different. High sensitivity inputs are an issue as you have clearly found, but the 'powerful' effect of a fast operating volume control is actually very difficult to shake, such amplifiers are often described as 'vibrant' or that old favourite 'punchy' and in normal use it is easy to see why.

Overall a volume control that allows a greater range of travel will make it easier to set the preferred level and will avoid the channel imbalance at low levels, much better in general use, but not so 'impressive'.

Back in the day I had a 3020 in a record playing (only) system. The sensitivity of the phono input was such that normal proper listening was done with the control set around 12 to 2 o'clock with only occasional forays beyond that. This was the model that made the 3020 'name' and did so without having to resort to volume control tricks.
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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Theres a low level button on the nad 3020i so you (i ) can use so cd level and turntabel can be matched (almost)

Than 12 o'clock is the it's loud setting instead of 10 o'clock, even when i use -10 db (not the turntable) 12 o'clock also from my turntable, is loud.

I do not dare to turn the volume up to where the sound is distorting, i have soft clipping set to off, can't really hear a diffrence (i don't play so loud that the sound distorts where soft clipping could be an advantage)
 

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