Lossless

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iMark

Well-known member
May 16, 2008
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Our own classical CDs and SACDs sound a bit better than Spotify Premium. But the difference is not as big as expected on our equipment. I wonder how good Spotify HiFi will sound (if it ever arrives!).

I have a couple of dozens of classical recordings on both CD and as LPs. We will occasionally play one of those LPs. They have sentimental value because they are records my parents bought. The CD versions of the same recordings always sound better. My late father would have loved CDs. He couldn't stand it that when he'd paid good money for a record eventually there would be clicks and pops, however careful we were with the records. He would have thought that the world had gone mad by going back to vinyl records when there was a much better medium available. At the same time he would have been amazed that we now have streaming services. It's incredible to be able to compare different versions of the same piece without having to leave the room.
 

Tinman1952

Well-known member
May 19, 2021
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Because that is how lossy compression works.
MP3, AAC, etc don't have a bit depth. They store in float.
They don't reduce the DR at all.
I’m sorry Vincent but 45 pages of the ‘theory’ of mp3 (when we still do not understand everything about how human hearing works) does not convince me that lossy musical compression does not sound flat, harsh, dynamically compromised with poor imaging. No disrespect intended but I have to accept my own ears! YMMV etc….
 

abacus

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Sep 24, 2008
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Lossy compression is a simple idea, the file is analysed and any information that cannot be heard by the listener (For example drowned out by louder parts of the music) gets removed, hence once gone you cannot get it back. (How good the algorithm does the job defines how good or bad it sounds)

This has been known for decades, and the excuse that we don’t know everything about human hearing is a complete nonsense. (As any audiologist will tell you)

Bill
 

Tinman1952

Well-known member
May 19, 2021
571
286
770
Lossy compression is a simple idea, the file is analysed and any information that cannot be heard by the listener (For example drowned out by louder parts of the music) gets removed, hence once gone you cannot get it back. (How good the algorithm does the job defines how good or bad it sounds)

This has been known for decades, and the excuse that we don’t know everything about human hearing is a complete nonsense. (As any audiologist will tell you)

Bill
You are absolutely right. It is a simple idea. Deceptively so….
I would just question the idea ‘which cannot be heard by the listener’….this is what changes as knowledge of human hearing develops. There are already theories that we can perceive higher frequencies than previously thought and I wouldn’t be so arrogant as to simply dismiss it as nonsense.
We now know for example that our hearing can detect differences of a billionth of a second or less…..
mp3 was designed to be ‘an acceptable compromise‘ in sound quality at 128kbps when computer storage was expensive and file sizes were prohibitive. That is no longer the case.
 

iMark

Well-known member
May 16, 2008
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Around 20 years ago I made a lot of recordings on Minidisc, mainly from CDs. Sony used the ATRAC compression system to record at 292kbps. It was then considered to be very close or even indistinguishable to the original CD. I still play the occasional MD and recordings from those days still sound excellent.

Obviously MD is completely obsolete by today's standards. But it did make clear that compressed audio can actually sound very good indeed. MD's certainly sound much better than mp3 at 128kbps.
 
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Tinman1952

Well-known member
May 19, 2021
571
286
770
Around 20 years ago I made a lot of recordings on Minidisc, mainly from CDs. Sony used the ATRAC compression system to record at 292kbps. It was then considered to be very close or even indistinguishable to the original CD. I still play the occasional MD and recordings from those days still sound excellent.

Obviously MD is completely obsolete by today's standards. But it did make clear that compressed audio can actually sound very good indeed. MD's certainly sound much better than mp3 at 128kbps.
I agree Minidisc was a much underrated system and was eclipsed by other media. My son had one and the sound quality was very good indeed! 🙂
 

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