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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
You do need to throw regular parties to justify the cost of going the PA route. I'd avoid Prosound and Sound Lab kit unless they were given away. The speakers especially sound truly awful. Try EBay as there's a constant stream of ex bedroom Dj's selling kit too heavy to post. You should pick up something locally fairly cheaply.
Even good PA rarely sounds great. My Mackies for example are well respected 400w active monitors typically costing £800 per pair. They sound about on a par with a budget midi system only louder, whereas the prosounds are something like an 80's Amstrad system only louder.
Can you stretch to a power amp upgrade to feed your current KEf's and use the power amp section in your current Cambridge to feed a second pair of efficient budget speakers elsewhere in the room?
Doing that would get a little more volume from the KEFs, provide a 2nd pair of speakers for a more even distribution of SPL and provide an upgrade.
If you'd rather avoid the expense the dirt cheap budget system ran until it fails is a good disposable option.
Even good PA rarely sounds great. My Mackies for example are well respected 400w active monitors typically costing £800 per pair. They sound about on a par with a budget midi system only louder, whereas the prosounds are something like an 80's Amstrad system only louder.
Can you stretch to a power amp upgrade to feed your current KEf's and use the power amp section in your current Cambridge to feed a second pair of efficient budget speakers elsewhere in the room?
Doing that would get a little more volume from the KEFs, provide a 2nd pair of speakers for a more even distribution of SPL and provide an upgrade.
If you'd rather avoid the expense the dirt cheap budget system ran until it fails is a good disposable option.
If the sound from a cd player connected and the mp3 player connected is virtually indistinguisable, then you need to consider a new amp I think. Also you aren't the first person to voice complaints about the volume of the cambridge c640, you might want to listen to amps with a bigger sound like the NAD. Of course you will need to go to a few dealers to do this but definitely worth doing.
I notice the Kefs have a sensitivity of 90db, maybe you could try to find a speaker around the 92db mark, it will probably be quite difficult to find some this high, but it will give you more volume for the same gain on the amplifier, then see if you can find speakers with bigger bass drivers and a bigger cabinet, this should help.
Mono blocks will give you more available power, I use some 400W per channel Class D mono block amplifiers, the sound is so effortless, loud and totally realistic, more power I've found just makes everything more realistic, I don't just mean louder, I mean in resolution, dynamics, presence, spacial clues.
You can do it, but you need to make those type of changes, I'd look for bigger more sensitive speakers first.
Mono blocks will give you more available power, I use some 400W per channel Class D mono block amplifiers, the sound is so effortless, loud and totally realistic, more power I've found just makes everything more realistic, I don't just mean louder, I mean in resolution, dynamics, presence, spacial clues.
You can do it, but you need to make those type of changes, I'd look for bigger more sensitive speakers first.
hi guys
Thanks for all the replies!
I just bought the kef speakers so am reluctant to upgrade these...the pa system would just be a bit cumbersome methinks and putting another set of speakers at the far end of the room would be a major wiring exercise, so i think the 2 options left would be attatch a power amp (say a quad 909) to the cambridge 640a) or monoblock each speaker with say a audiolab 8000m both options will cost say £400 to £800 depending on new or secondhand.
what do you guys think?
what would give me the biggest boost in volume?
thanks in advance
murray
Thanks for all the replies!
I just bought the kef speakers so am reluctant to upgrade these...the pa system would just be a bit cumbersome methinks and putting another set of speakers at the far end of the room would be a major wiring exercise, so i think the 2 options left would be attatch a power amp (say a quad 909) to the cambridge 640a) or monoblock each speaker with say a audiolab 8000m both options will cost say £400 to £800 depending on new or secondhand.
what do you guys think?
what would give me the biggest boost in volume?
thanks in advance
murray
Well, you seem to have fixed upon the power amp upgrade. I'd say whichever is the more powerful should give more volume. Be slightly cautious of quoted power outputs though. They may be somewhat conservative. If you want pure volume a PA amp could be the way forward. If you want to improve the 'normal' sound from your system go for something more like a conventional power amp. I've got a Rotel RB991 power amp rated at 200W RMS 8 ohm, it lacks the finesse of some amps but has effortless headroom and would still be a big upgrade to the Cambridge power amp section. Now discontinued you might EBay one for £275 or so. something like this or a big NAD/Hafler would give all the volume the KEFs can provide. You might still need to move one or both of your speakers to get a more even distribution of sound though.
Maybe you could syringe the ears of each guest as they arrive. That would gives gains in perceived loudness.
Maybe you could syringe the ears of each guest as they arrive. That would gives gains in perceived loudness.
Thanks for the reply
Can I use the cambridge 640a with the rotel or nad power amps as a sort of pre-amp and if so how do you wire it up?
thanks murray
Can I use the cambridge 640a with the rotel or nad power amps as a sort of pre-amp and if so how do you wire it up?
thanks murray
Honestly, this is my final time of warning you: Using an amplifier that powerful at its limits will damage your speakers VERY quickly. Buying a poweramp is NOT the solution.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Hughes123:Honestly, this is my final time of warning you: Using an amplifier that powerful at its limits will damage your speakers VERY quickly. Buying a poweramp is NOT the solution.
Couldn't agree more. Domestic hi-fi isn't designed for ridiculous party levels. You will end up with a pair of fried KEF speakers if you are not careful. If you really need such high volume leves either hire PA kit or, if you do this frequently, buy some. It won't give the same sound quality but you can't have it all.
Couldn't agree more. Domestic hi-fi isn't designed for ridiculous party levels. You will end up with a pair of fried KEF speakers if you are not careful. If you really need such high volume leves either hire PA kit or, if you do this frequently, buy some. It won't give the same sound quality but you can't have it all.
ouch!!!!!!!!! sorry guys did not meen to get your backs up I am not after ridiculous party levels just a bit louder when playing through the i-pod docking station.
murray
murray
murgord:
ouch!!!!!!!!! sorry guys did not meen to get your backs up I am not after ridiculous party levels just a bit louder when playing through the i-pod docking station.
murray
I know that, it's just twice as much power does not mean twice as much volume, or anything near.
If you want a power amp, go ahead and look at this...
ouch!!!!!!!!! sorry guys did not meen to get your backs up I am not after ridiculous party levels just a bit louder when playing through the i-pod docking station.
murray
I know that, it's just twice as much power does not mean twice as much volume, or anything near.
If you want a power amp, go ahead and look at this...
murgord:
I think that would definetly melt the kefs
murray
Infact, as long as you don't drive it too hard, it should be less likely to melt the KEFs than your CA, because it has more power in reserve and therefore shouldn't clip and cause distortion which melts crossovers and tweeter coils. I'm thinking about getting one for my KEF iQ30s, to give them a little more headroom, but I'm waiting until the ebay prices go down in the recession.
Also, I'm looking at the Musical Fidelity 550 for a bit more grunt on the Mahler...something else you should consider if you are gentle with the volume dial - but I'm still sure this would not solve the problem. Poor little Keffy drivers, all they wanted to do was play a bit of gentle Chopin in a dining room somewhere...bless...
murray
Infact, as long as you don't drive it too hard, it should be less likely to melt the KEFs than your CA, because it has more power in reserve and therefore shouldn't clip and cause distortion which melts crossovers and tweeter coils. I'm thinking about getting one for my KEF iQ30s, to give them a little more headroom, but I'm waiting until the ebay prices go down in the recession.
Also, I'm looking at the Musical Fidelity 550 for a bit more grunt on the Mahler...something else you should consider if you are gentle with the volume dial - but I'm still sure this would not solve the problem. Poor little Keffy drivers, all they wanted to do was play a bit of gentle Chopin in a dining room somewhere...bless...
It's always better to have too much power than too little!!
Anyway, instead of just fluffing around adding power amps, as I doubt the pre-section in the 640 is that wonderful, I don't even know if it has pre outs? why not just get the 840A, it's seems the most sensible thing to me, upgrading to serious amplification would be wasted on the Kef iq.
Failing that, go to the DR and get your ears syringed, maybe they are making the sound seem not so loud.
Anyway, instead of just fluffing around adding power amps, as I doubt the pre-section in the 640 is that wonderful, I don't even know if it has pre outs? why not just get the 840A, it's seems the most sensible thing to me, upgrading to serious amplification would be wasted on the Kef iq.
Failing that, go to the DR and get your ears syringed, maybe they are making the sound seem not so loud.
Hughes123:You could also ask Tony R whether he wants to sell his NAD power amp, which is VERY powerful!
Except that would be trading, which is not allowed on these Forums.
Except that would be trading, which is not allowed on these Forums.
Andrew Everard:
Hughes123:You could also ask Tony R whether he wants to sell his NAD power amp, which is VERY powerful!
Except that would be trading, which is not allowed on these Forums.
You could ask for his email, and then all would be fine and dandy!
Hughes123:You could also ask Tony R whether he wants to sell his NAD power amp, which is VERY powerful!
Except that would be trading, which is not allowed on these Forums.
You could ask for his email, and then all would be fine and dandy!
silly:upgrading to serious amplification would be wasted on the Kef iq.
I have an Arcam FMJ A32 on my KEF IQ30s and the result is beautifully sonorous sound!
I have an Arcam FMJ A32 on my KEF IQ30s and the result is beautifully sonorous sound!
Hughes123:You could ask for his email, and then all would be fine and dandy!
No, it wouldn't. Or are you making the house-rules now?
No, it wouldn't. Or are you making the house-rules now?
I am not that sure either if it has pre-outs...have an offer of a rotel rb980bx power amp for a £100 what do you guys think of these amps and I would promise to be good to my poor little kefs and go easy on the volume dial
murray
murray
Andrew Everard:Hughes123:You could ask for his email, and then all would be fine and dandy!
No, it wouldn't. Or are you making the house-rules now?
No, but surely if the two are doing this in private, it's no problem - or have you gained omniscience over all of us?
No, it wouldn't. Or are you making the house-rules now?
No, but surely if the two are doing this in private, it's no problem - or have you gained omniscience over all of us?
Tony_R
Well-known member
murgord:
I am not that sure either if it has pre-outs...have an offer of a rotel rb980bx power amp for a £100 what do you guys think of these amps and I would promise to be good to my poor little kefs and go easy on the volume dial
murray
Murray, the Rotel would be a good proposition, although I would question it's ability to maintain sustained high output levels.
Like I said in one of my earlier posts (see the first page) you need to practically double the wattage to get a perceptable increase in sound levels.
The explanation for this is that the ear is logarithmic (not sure about that spelling) and you need to raise the sound level by +3dB for an audible increase in sound level.
And to raise the level by +3dB you need to double the power (no matter how much power or where)..
Tony.
I am not that sure either if it has pre-outs...have an offer of a rotel rb980bx power amp for a £100 what do you guys think of these amps and I would promise to be good to my poor little kefs and go easy on the volume dial
murray
Murray, the Rotel would be a good proposition, although I would question it's ability to maintain sustained high output levels.
Like I said in one of my earlier posts (see the first page) you need to practically double the wattage to get a perceptable increase in sound levels.
The explanation for this is that the ear is logarithmic (not sure about that spelling) and you need to raise the sound level by +3dB for an audible increase in sound level.
And to raise the level by +3dB you need to double the power (no matter how much power or where)..
Tony.
Hi Tony
Just checked and it does have pre-outs
Thanks for the reply regarding the rotel I think the rotel is a 120 watt so I would be almost doubling the wattage so hopefully I would hear a slight difference in volume as I said in an earlier post it is only when played through the i-dock that it is not too loud...played through the cd it is ok, so I think I may go with the rotel and just use it when I am playing through the i-dock.
thanks everyone for their patience with me.
murray
Just checked and it does have pre-outs
Thanks for the reply regarding the rotel I think the rotel is a 120 watt so I would be almost doubling the wattage so hopefully I would hear a slight difference in volume as I said in an earlier post it is only when played through the i-dock that it is not too loud...played through the cd it is ok, so I think I may go with the rotel and just use it when I am playing through the i-dock.
thanks everyone for their patience with me.
murray
plastic penguin
Well-known member
It's probably been mentioned. Sorry I haven't read all the posts, but how about a Roksan kandy 120 watts (I think) or there's an old Musical Fidelity A300 which has 200 watts per channel - don't where you would obtain one of those, apart from, maybe, Ebay.
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