Looking for Advice on First Hifi System

[cw21]

Hello All.

I am looking into getting a HiFi system. I always thought HiFi was silly, until I heard a friend's setup at a party. It was some Mcintosh Amp with Sonus Faber Speakers. I dont know much about this stuff, but it sounded pretty damn good. Mainly, this was the first time I heard a trumpet being played through speakers and to me, it sounded like a trumpet was actually in the room (not exactly, but closer than I thought was possible through speakers)

I am looking for any suggestions people may have for someone starting out into this. In general, Im looking for a amp/speaker combo that people would recommend for playing back small jazz combo, acoustic, and vocal music.

Most of my recordings are currently FLAC and Wav. I have some CDs as well.

The room is a 200 sq foot rectangle with one of the long walls being brick, and the other three walls are drywall.

Budget wise, ideally under $10K for the whole setup, but there is wiggle room.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Kefref]

Wow thats a pretty hefty budget matey.

For that sort of money you pretty much have your pick of some of the best hifi available.

My advice would be if you are really serious to buy the best you can for your budget, What Hifi is definately the place to begin, some really knowledgable folk on here. Just dont jump in or follow one piece of advice. Do your research, and then go to a few reputable hifi shops and audition some kit for yourself there is no better way to buy hifi than listening to it for yourself, and im sure for that budget you will find a hifi shop that will home demo some kit for you.

Read some reviews on here, they are really helpfull, and narrow down your searches by looking at 5* winners only and that will give you the cream of the crop.

Do some reading, see some things you like and come back to us.

 

[cw21]

thx, this is helpful. I mean, I dont need to spend the whole budget of course, but just to have a discussion in some of these hifi shops it seems like you are expected to have a large budget or else you wont get the time of day. Regardless, will research, listen, and see what the deal is. Mainly, want to get something that'll last me 10+ years and beyond

 

[Kefref]

thx, this is helpful. I mean, I dont need to spend the whole budget of course, but just to have a discussion in some of these hifi shops it seems like you are expected to have a large budget or else you wont get the time of day. Regardless, will research, listen, and see what the deal is. Mainly, want to get something that'll last me 10+ years and beyond

Where do you reside, i could recommend a few hifi shops if you are in the uk.

Most are normally very helpfull regardless of budget.

You dont need to spend 10k to get a really good system, but you do get what you pay for.

 

[matthewpiano]

If you like the Sonus Faber sound, start there. They're beautiful speakers.

 

[cw21]

thx, this is helpful. I mean, I dont need to spend the whole budget of course, but just to have a discussion in some of these hifi shops it seems like you are expected to have a large budget or else you wont get the time of day. Regardless, will research, listen, and see what the deal is. Mainly, want to get something that'll last me 10+ years and beyond

Where do you reside, i could recommend a few hifi shops if you are in the uk.

Most are normally very helpfull regardless of budget.

You dont need to spend 10k to get a really good system, but you do get what you pay for.

I live in NYC...I mean basically I'd love to get something now and at least have a receiver that can last a lifetime. I was looking at the Mcintosh 7900 but dont know enough yet to make the decision on that, so hopefully between research and the forums, will get enough knowledge to jump in

 

[davedotco]

i am a big fan of Sonus Faber speakers, take a look around and see what is available, look out for older models like the Cremona and Liutto models, the new Olympica models are quite pricey, even given your budget.

In the UK the amp would be obvious, Devialet 120 or 200. In New York, US branded equipment is much better value than it is over here, Audio Research is a nice match with SF, as are plenty of others. Find a SF dealer, see what he has and see what sort of thing he uses and whether he makes a good sound.

A relatively affordable combination would be the Devialet 120 and Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor M, (recently discontinued but there might still be some about) or the Venere 2.5. Both speakers can take advantage of the "SAM" technology which provides active equalisation specifically for those speakers.

 

[tino]

I hear the Wadia Intuition 01 amplifier is pretty good, better than the Devialet some say although the Devialet looks the better package?? Not sure what price they retail for in the US but probably $6K plus??

 

[Covenanter]

I'm not going to talk about kit, others are much better qualified than I am. But with that budget dealers should be falling over themselves to get your business so I would carefully compile an auditioning set of recordings, make yourself some audition sheets (where you list the kit, recording, impressions, etc) and find a dealer and tell him/her what you want to achieve and then go and listen and listen and listen. They should be willing to give you many hours and if they aren't I would go somewhere else. If you can use your friend's system as a reference to compare to. Then repeat at another dealer and keep going until you find something you like.

A word of warning, the best speakers + the best amp + the best source does not necessarily = the best system. You need to find components that work well together.

Chris

 

[Kefref]

A word of warning, the best speakers + the best amp + the best source does not necessarily = the best system. You need to find components that work well together.

Chris

Very good Advice, Audition as much as possible, and always remember that the listening room in the hifi shop where you audition is different than your home, so you have to take this into account.. That means if you fancy a set of floor standers make sure that you have enough space for them to sound good in your listening room. You could go out and but a set of JM Focal Grande Utopia's but if you are puttting them in a wardrobe they will sound terrible (bad analogy but you get the idea im sure)

Not trying to put you off Stand mounts like the Sonus Fabers, i am sure they are very good speakers. But for that sort of cash $2K you could get a very very good set of floor standers. You will normally (but not always) get a wider frequency response with a set of floor standers, more bottom end, and a larger stereo image. Make sure you listen to a wide range of TYPES, as well as makes so as you know what you will like to listen to. Worst case is you spend 2K on a set of stand mounts only to find you are undewhelmed and end up regretting not getting a set of floor standers.

Dont rule out a second hand set of speakers as well, as an example I bought my current set of KEF 104/2's 10 years ago for £500 and they are still going strong. (30 years old!) (a small bit of maintenance was needed along the way) You would not go far wrong with a second hand set of Kef Reference Series, anything after the 104/2s will blow your socks off!! I have auditioned $2K Monitor Audio speakers and they dont come anywhere close to the 104/2's.

I see quite a few second hand sets of Kef reference speakers on ebay usa can be picked up for a fraction of the original price, you would not go wrong with a 2nd hand set of Modern Kef Reference

Anything vintage from the following 104/2 105/2 105/3 107/2 (only real issues are dustcaps can perish over time, just need to have your head screwed on when buying, the dustcaps can be replaced for not much money) or from Modern Range if you are lucky enough - 203 205 207 203/2 205/2 207/2 (207's are flagship, and very expensive)

As an example there is a stunning set of 105/3's up for grabs, they look in superb condition, going for $1400

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KEF-Reference-Series-Model-105-3-Floorstanding-Speakers-/221624090268?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item3399d33e9c

Just another angle, i know 2nd hand isnt for everyone

 

[tino]

Some more choices for you

Made in the USA ...

http://www.magnepan.com

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Pharaoh.htm

 

[Vladimir]

Oh the things I could buy with $10K on AudiogoN...

 

[Kefref]

Oh the things I could buy with $10K on AudiogoN...

You can say that again Vladimir

Dream budget for most!

Has taken me 10 years to build up the setup i have just now piece by piece.

Upgrading and tweaking a bit at a time.

Finally it is up to a stage where apart from maybe adding a power amp onto my 8000s, or buying a new Amp altogether I dont think there is much more i want or infact need to do....It sounds absolutely amazing after buying the M-Dac

I remember the days of starting out in HiFi, with my Kef Q1's and NAD C320BEE, what i would not have given for a 10k budget

 

[Vladimir]

If I had a pair of KEF R109 Maidstones, I could retire early in this hobby.

 

[Kefref]

If I had a pair of KEF R109 Maidstones, I could retire early in this hobby.

Stop that Vladimir, ive just had to change my underwear after looking at those on the kef museum site.

My 104/2's have just turned green with envy

 

[Kefref]

Time to make a final purchase and retire Vladimir?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/KEF-R-109-MAIDSTONE-SPEAKERS-PAIR-ROSEWOOD-VERY-RARE-BOXES-MANUAL-ETC-/251735774981?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item3a9c9f1705

So thats what heaven looks like!

 

[Overdose]

Thanks for any help!

It would be well worth your while to investigate speakers from the pro audio world.

Called monitors, they are usually active (containing crossovers and amplification), try the Event Opals or one of the Genelec 80** series.

Something along the lines of a Naim Uniti would be a comprehensive preamp/source for them, although many options exist in accomplishing this.

 

[CnoEvil]

I would suggest listening to: Linn Majik DSM + Kef R700s

Alternatives to check out would be Amps from Accuphase, Luxman, Sugden (Masterclass), Electrocompaniet and Pathos; Speakers from Harbeth, Sonus Faber, Spendor and Kef. The Linn DS makes for a great source.

 

[lindsayt]

Wow thats a pretty hefty budget matey.

For that sort of money you pretty much have your pick of some of the best hifi available.

My advice would be if you are really serious to buy the best you can for your budget, What Hifi is definately the place to begin, some really knowledgable folk on here. Just dont jump in or follow one piece of advice. Do your research, and then go to a few reputable hifi shops and audition some kit for yourself there is no better way to buy hifi than listening to it for yourself, and im sure for that budget you will find a hifi shop that will home demo some kit for you.

Read some reviews on here, they are really helpfull, and narrow down your searches by looking at 5* winners only and that will give you the cream of the crop.

Do some reading, see some things you like and come back to us.

My advice is: don't start with the What Hi-fi forum for advice.

Start with a US based forum.

You can go to a few hi-fi shops, but on no account buy from them, if you want the best sounding system for your money.

Get in touch with other hi-fi enthusiasts in your part of the world and go visit them.

You can also host a bake off at your house where other people bring their systems to you.

Buy 2nd hand for best sound quality for the money. Check out US ebay and keep your eyes open for other sources, such as studios doing refurbishements or garage sales.

Most of the best sounding equipment that you can buy in the States has never been reviewed by What Hi-fi. Most of the What hi-fi 5* winners that I've heard, I'd rate as 3*'s or less on my own personal star rating system.

I live in the UK. I've tried a few different things. My favourite amp and speaker combination came from New York state. The speakers cost me $8,000 and the amp $2,000. The United States are a great source of world class hi-fi components for the OP's budget.

 

[rainsoothe]

Alternatives to check out would be Amps from Accuphase, Luxman, Sugden (Masterclass), Electrocompaniet and Pathos; Speakers from Harbeth, Sonus Faber, Spendor and Kef. The Linn DS makes for a great source.

hey. Great budget there. As others have mentioned, finding a dealer that stocks good brands AND a salesperson you gel with is the most important. After that, let your ears decide. Also, you might want to consider budgeting for a turntable as well - again, audition and let your ears decide.

The top amplifier brands I would be looking at would be Accuphase, Luxman, Sugden, Pathos, Audio Research, Auralic, Simaudio Moon, MacIntosh and (just 'cause I like what they do with the rhythm thingie and 'cause I love them) Naim.

For speakers check out the Sonus Fabers (of course), Martin Logan Motion series, Harbeth, Kef, PMC, ATC.

For turntables (in case you're interested and you live in the US) you should check out VPI.

 

[rainsoothe]

ye, of course, my previous post was directed at OP, the quote was just to agree with Cno

 

[steve_1979]

Thanks for any help!

It would be well worth your while to investigate speakers from the pro audio world.

Called monitors, they are usually active (containing crossovers and amplification), try the Event Opals or one of the Genelec 80** series.

Something along the lines of a Naim Uniti would be a comprehensive preamp/source for them, although many options exist in accomplishing this.

+1

All of the best systems that I've heard used active speakers. With that budget I would be looking at Genelec, Quested and AVI.

 

[Kefref]

@cw21

As you can see you will always get a wealth of differing opinions on forums, it is a good place to start but ultimately you need to go and audition a lot of kit. Hifi is a very personal thing, and I feel the only way you will know what YOU like is to suck it and see! Find some good hifi shops, and let them do the leg work, remember they WANT to sell YOU a hifi, and will move heaven and earth to do so! look at reviews of the shop before you go, word of mouth is what you are looking for

Remember to barter with them as well, Hifi shops normally have fairly large margins, and you can pick up a good deal if you are not shy in asking for it! Most people never ask for a discount, and i never can quite understand why this is. Especially with larger budgets! You can get some freebies sometimes as well, e.g free cables

Dont be shy, play hard ball, and play them off against each other (Hmmmmm...... hifi shop A offered me the same deal for X less works a treat)

Never really heard of a hifi bake off, although i like the idea of cakes Maybe things are a little different in the states, but im sure i would not want complete strangers coming round to see what hifi and other valuables i have in my home. But horses for courses I suppose, maybe im missing a trick

And yes as I said in my previous post 2nd hand is the way to go as far as value for money, sometimes tricky to find local gear that you can audition first though. I took a gamble online with my Kefs and it paid off....Not for everyone though, as $10k is a lot to spend with no warranty to back it up! If the amp dies after a week you are left with a repair bill and no HiFi, at least if you buy from a shop, you have a local point of contact to go back to! Sometimes a little money saved online is not worth it!

Good luck, and let us know how you get on, I for one would be intersted to know what you end up with.

 

[DocG]

I second Tino's suggestion to try some Magnepans. They are so different! I think the 1.7 would be a good place to start. Not sure about their exact price in the US, probably <2000 USD. Which would leave you with about 8000 USD for proper amplification: a healthy push-pull valve amp, or a solid state power house. McIntosh, Audio Research, Jeff Rowland, maybe Roger Sanders' Magtech amp...

Indeed, the money you save when going for these speakers should be invested in the best amplification you can afford (lots of watts, lots of current).