Oh well ... that put a 'damper' on things ... made a huge bowl of popcorn ... waiting in anticipation ... popcorn is finished so suppose will have to get back onto the beers
Rob_manchester:
You must be new to internet forums ;-)
Going back to the OP though. To be honest I don't understand these questions if you're coming at it from a sound quality perspective. Just try it. If you can't hear any difference then don't worry about other people's opinions on t'internet and save on your electric. If it sound like my car starting for the first few tracks then you have your answer...
Apologies if your concern is the longevity of the electrical components (although I had my Naim amps going on and off for 14 years without a hitch), but if it's sound quality....trust your ears not other peoples opinions.
It was indeed more about the longevity of the amp. Leaving it on 30 min. before I start is no problem.
You must be new to internet forums ;-)
Going back to the OP though. To be honest I don't understand these questions if you're coming at it from a sound quality perspective. Just try it. If you can't hear any difference then don't worry about other people's opinions on t'internet and save on your electric. If it sound like my car starting for the first few tracks then you have your answer...
Apologies if your concern is the longevity of the electrical components (although I had my Naim amps going on and off for 14 years without a hitch), but if it's sound quality....trust your ears not other peoples opinions.
It was indeed more about the longevity of the amp. Leaving it on 30 min. before I start is no problem.
SlickenSmooth:
It was indeed more about the longevity of the amp. Leaving it on 30 min. before I start is no problem.
In that case I don't know I'm afraid. Like I said, my Naim amps were regularly switched off for ~14 years without a hitch but that's anecdotal rather than advice. My dad had a Hitachi amp from the 70s which, as far as I know, was switched off nightly for ~25 years (more about pennies on the electric bill than any env concerns back then!). I wonder whether amps vary much on this across manufacturers - some being more vulnerable than others?
It was indeed more about the longevity of the amp. Leaving it on 30 min. before I start is no problem.
In that case I don't know I'm afraid. Like I said, my Naim amps were regularly switched off for ~14 years without a hitch but that's anecdotal rather than advice. My dad had a Hitachi amp from the 70s which, as far as I know, was switched off nightly for ~25 years (more about pennies on the electric bill than any env concerns back then!). I wonder whether amps vary much on this across manufacturers - some being more vulnerable than others?
Rob_manchester:SlickenSmooth:
It was indeed more about the longevity of the amp. Leaving it on 30 min. before I start is no problem.
In that case I don't know I'm afraid. Like I said, my Naim amps were regularly switched off for ~14 years without a hitch but that's anecdotal rather than advice. My dad had a Hitachi amp from the 70s which, as far as I know, was switched off nightly for ~25 years (more about pennies on the electric bill than any env concerns back then!). I wonder whether amps vary much on this across manufacturers - some being more vulnerable than others?
I see what you mean. I emailed Sugden about it but no reply, maybe I won't get a reply from them. Oh well..
It was indeed more about the longevity of the amp. Leaving it on 30 min. before I start is no problem.
In that case I don't know I'm afraid. Like I said, my Naim amps were regularly switched off for ~14 years without a hitch but that's anecdotal rather than advice. My dad had a Hitachi amp from the 70s which, as far as I know, was switched off nightly for ~25 years (more about pennies on the electric bill than any env concerns back then!). I wonder whether amps vary much on this across manufacturers - some being more vulnerable than others?
I see what you mean. I emailed Sugden about it but no reply, maybe I won't get a reply from them. Oh well..
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
- Jun 27, 2008
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JamesOK: JamesOK:I dont even necessarily believe the "it has to warm up to sound good" thing.
I retract this comment! Turned my stereo on about 2 hours ago and immediately listened to something. Sounded a bit flat. I have come back 2 hours later and it sounds a lot more musical and warmer. James is converted.....hallelujah!!
Now where's Cistron
I retract this comment! Turned my stereo on about 2 hours ago and immediately listened to something. Sounded a bit flat. I have come back 2 hours later and it sounds a lot more musical and warmer. James is converted.....hallelujah!!
Now where's Cistron
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
- Jun 27, 2008
- 567
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Cistron:You clearly must have studied meteorology and archeology. Have ever read anything about the influence of green house gases? Wait ... no need for reading, watching 'Home' or 'Age of Stupid' would have been enough to know better.Sorry, don't watch TV. And yes, I have my degrees in meteors and arches.
And yes, I believe that even turning off a single amplifier will make a difference.Then go ahead and turn off your amp. When it comes to judgement day and we'all burning up and God saves you for turning your amp off like a good little boy, I'll let you poke me and say "told ya".
Let's all just hope we'll all die in a nuclear winter, once war rages because all but a few oil fields are bone-dry.You think World War III will be over oil?
edit: yes, yes, sorry one off. Call me childish, but bigotry and ignoring social responsiblities pushes my buttons. As corny as it sounds, a lot of people are working hard to make this planet a better place. Many sacrifises are made and along comes David from Frank Harvey Hifi in Coventry and proclaims that we'll all die in WWIII anyway, so what's all the fuss about? My criticism is not limited to him. I recycle. I re-use plastic bags. I re-use plastic bottles. I don't drive a car, I cycle. I do my bit. But when it comes to hearing music on MY hi-fi system, that I pay the electric bill for, I'll do as I please.
Hmmmm.....should I add another 4 monoblocks to tri-amp my speakers? That'd be around 7,000 watts consumption flat out......
In my oppinion you should all switch off your amplifiers when you're not listening to music. If you must, give it that half hour warm-up, but don't mock everyone else with a 'it's my electricy bill, what do you care' attitude.So if someone buys a car that does 5mpg, are they not allowed to drive it because it's not up to your expected fuel consumption figures?
From now on, Frank Harvey in Coventry can't do any demo's because we'd be wasting electricity - if we leave the lights off, we'll all be saved.
And yes, I believe that even turning off a single amplifier will make a difference.Then go ahead and turn off your amp. When it comes to judgement day and we'all burning up and God saves you for turning your amp off like a good little boy, I'll let you poke me and say "told ya".
Let's all just hope we'll all die in a nuclear winter, once war rages because all but a few oil fields are bone-dry.You think World War III will be over oil?
edit: yes, yes, sorry one off. Call me childish, but bigotry and ignoring social responsiblities pushes my buttons. As corny as it sounds, a lot of people are working hard to make this planet a better place. Many sacrifises are made and along comes David from Frank Harvey Hifi in Coventry and proclaims that we'll all die in WWIII anyway, so what's all the fuss about? My criticism is not limited to him. I recycle. I re-use plastic bags. I re-use plastic bottles. I don't drive a car, I cycle. I do my bit. But when it comes to hearing music on MY hi-fi system, that I pay the electric bill for, I'll do as I please.
Hmmmm.....should I add another 4 monoblocks to tri-amp my speakers? That'd be around 7,000 watts consumption flat out......
In my oppinion you should all switch off your amplifiers when you're not listening to music. If you must, give it that half hour warm-up, but don't mock everyone else with a 'it's my electricy bill, what do you care' attitude.So if someone buys a car that does 5mpg, are they not allowed to drive it because it's not up to your expected fuel consumption figures?
From now on, Frank Harvey in Coventry can't do any demo's because we'd be wasting electricity - if we leave the lights off, we'll all be saved.
Come on guys, this is pathetic. Amps perform better/differently when warmed, I don't doubt that, although my Masters in Electrical Engineering would lead me to believe it has very little (if anything) to do with capacitors, more so the conductivity of resistance components.
Whilst people may not 'believe' in climate change, a large portion of the world's scientist don't doubt we ARE contributing to 'climate change'. The reason many people would simply say 'I don't believe it' is because there will forever be a philosophical approach to science questioning the underlying principles behind everything we are taught. There will always be the possibility that what we believe to be true now could someday be proved inaccurate.
My personal opinion...
Scientific experts in the effects of increased hazardous gases in our atmosphere and the effects on global climate are in relatively short supply. Nobody could possibly be 100% certain. They may be in their own minds, but there will always be that question of doubt, ie. scientific truth. In this case, I don't need to know with absolute certainty that reducing carbon emissions (amongst others) will benefit this earth, nor do I need to know timescales. All I need is scientific evidence suggesting it could for me to at least consider energy usage... I wouldn't even consider leaving my television on all day and night to improve longevity...
I must lastly say, I really fail to understand this issue of leaving an appliance on all the time. Suppose switching on and off reduces a units lifeline... Say you have your amp on 6 hours a day rather than 24... surely the money saved over, say 10 years, would more than cover the cost of new amp SHOULD the amp die... Is this really the issue?
Whilst people may not 'believe' in climate change, a large portion of the world's scientist don't doubt we ARE contributing to 'climate change'. The reason many people would simply say 'I don't believe it' is because there will forever be a philosophical approach to science questioning the underlying principles behind everything we are taught. There will always be the possibility that what we believe to be true now could someday be proved inaccurate.
My personal opinion...
Scientific experts in the effects of increased hazardous gases in our atmosphere and the effects on global climate are in relatively short supply. Nobody could possibly be 100% certain. They may be in their own minds, but there will always be that question of doubt, ie. scientific truth. In this case, I don't need to know with absolute certainty that reducing carbon emissions (amongst others) will benefit this earth, nor do I need to know timescales. All I need is scientific evidence suggesting it could for me to at least consider energy usage... I wouldn't even consider leaving my television on all day and night to improve longevity...
I must lastly say, I really fail to understand this issue of leaving an appliance on all the time. Suppose switching on and off reduces a units lifeline... Say you have your amp on 6 hours a day rather than 24... surely the money saved over, say 10 years, would more than cover the cost of new amp SHOULD the amp die... Is this really the issue?
Hey Guys!
I never laeve my amp on all the time as i am worried about it being "over used" if there is such a thing. The amp is a 60 odd kg monster so just the thought of having to send it packing or taking it to a dealer is enough to make me cry. The thing sounds really different from cold once warmed up (gets a LOT better). Are my fears unfounded? It has no standby button or anything just 1 on switch. Also i spoke to the dealer who said i should just use the mute button, which turns all the feet red as a standby...
I never laeve my amp on all the time as i am worried about it being "over used" if there is such a thing. The amp is a 60 odd kg monster so just the thought of having to send it packing or taking it to a dealer is enough to make me cry. The thing sounds really different from cold once warmed up (gets a LOT better). Are my fears unfounded? It has no standby button or anything just 1 on switch. Also i spoke to the dealer who said i should just use the mute button, which turns all the feet red as a standby...
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
- Jun 27, 2008
- 567
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JamesOK:
Woah there David. I am converted that amps need warming up for a couple of hours. I'm not converted to the idea of leaving them on all the time! Ha ha.I was referring to the warming up bit
There's a slight element of "holier than thou" amongst some of the climate change community which does irk a bit.
I tend to believe we have a major impact on the planet, not so sure if that is through climate change in the end, but mostly by the amount of rubbish we throw up into the atmosphere through global dirty industries, air travel and mammals. Biggest contradiction in terms from Boeing and Airbus: the "green" aircraft. I used to work for Rolls-Royce, one of the big three engine manufacturers (GE & Pratt and Whitney being the other two) and while they can make engines more efficient than those of even ten years ago, getting from London to New York means but one thing - a ton of engine fuel in one end and a pile of exhaust fumes coming out the back of a two or four engined jet (or six if you consider some of the huge Antonov transporters). Green? My a***.
So, me using my 240w consumption little amp is peanuts in comparison. Yes, added up along with all the other little 240w power hungry (sic) amps, then point taken. But comparitively speaking, and against other CE kit such as plasma/LCD screens which are serious consumers of wattage in use and on standby mode (come on, how lazy as a society are we?), leaving the amp on all day is pitching arrows at the wrong target...
I tend to believe we have a major impact on the planet, not so sure if that is through climate change in the end, but mostly by the amount of rubbish we throw up into the atmosphere through global dirty industries, air travel and mammals. Biggest contradiction in terms from Boeing and Airbus: the "green" aircraft. I used to work for Rolls-Royce, one of the big three engine manufacturers (GE & Pratt and Whitney being the other two) and while they can make engines more efficient than those of even ten years ago, getting from London to New York means but one thing - a ton of engine fuel in one end and a pile of exhaust fumes coming out the back of a two or four engined jet (or six if you consider some of the huge Antonov transporters). Green? My a***.
So, me using my 240w consumption little amp is peanuts in comparison. Yes, added up along with all the other little 240w power hungry (sic) amps, then point taken. But comparitively speaking, and against other CE kit such as plasma/LCD screens which are serious consumers of wattage in use and on standby mode (come on, how lazy as a society are we?), leaving the amp on all day is pitching arrows at the wrong target...
Who`s got an electric santa or window/tree lights? Fair to say most houses have one if not all of these? How many towns and cities have lights on lampposts and trees? My amp is tiny if possibly inefficient, minimal current use when not making noise. I dont have a tumble dryer or a dishwasher or even a dvd player. Oh and I have no car.
Last but not by any means least, GET BENT tree fondlers!
Last but not by any means least, GET BENT tree fondlers!
andrewknight:
I dont have a tumble dryer or a dishwasher or even a dvd player. Oh and I have no car.
Flippin Heck! ... no tumble dryer, no dishwasher, no car .... do you have a job?
I dont have a tumble dryer or a dishwasher or even a dvd player. Oh and I have no car.
Flippin Heck! ... no tumble dryer, no dishwasher, no car .... do you have a job?
andrewknight:
Fair to say ...... I dont have a tumble dryer or a dishwasher or even a dvd player. Oh and I have no car.
Is it fair to say you're still wearing grey flannel shorts...?
Fair to say ...... I dont have a tumble dryer or a dishwasher or even a dvd player. Oh and I have no car.
Is it fair to say you're still wearing grey flannel shorts...?
Grey flannel? I`m not a dentist dude!
I`ve a job but no need for those goods except the car which I will be reinvesting in next year.
I`ve a job but no need for those goods except the car which I will be reinvesting in next year.
idc
Well-known member
- Jan 2, 2008
- 1,142
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Rob_manchester:idc:
Rob_manchester:Interesting fact for the day - did you know Amazon takes more money from it's cloud hosting services ...
Cloud hosting sounds very environmentally friendly, but I suspect it isn't.
I wasn't proposing it an the 'environmentally friendly option' just as an aside. I've worked nearly 15 years for one of the biggest IT consultancies so I've probably had more varied exposure than most on the approach, across a decent range of countries. I'd love it to live up to the hype but there's a world's worth of distance to go.
They do tend to be more environmentally friendly though - not on the efficiency benefits (which haven't been fully realised yet) but simply because they tend to have newer kit than that in your average SME machine room.
Not sure what your 'expect it isn't' comment was based on/referring to?
Rob
Sorry Rob, what I should have posted was the far more obvious 'whats cloud hosting?'
Rob_manchester:Interesting fact for the day - did you know Amazon takes more money from it's cloud hosting services ...
Cloud hosting sounds very environmentally friendly, but I suspect it isn't.
I wasn't proposing it an the 'environmentally friendly option' just as an aside. I've worked nearly 15 years for one of the biggest IT consultancies so I've probably had more varied exposure than most on the approach, across a decent range of countries. I'd love it to live up to the hype but there's a world's worth of distance to go.
They do tend to be more environmentally friendly though - not on the efficiency benefits (which haven't been fully realised yet) but simply because they tend to have newer kit than that in your average SME machine room.
Not sure what your 'expect it isn't' comment was based on/referring to?
Rob
Sorry Rob, what I should have posted was the far more obvious 'whats cloud hosting?'
FrankHarveyHiFi:
Well SS, we'll see if he apologises for his comment, which I do believe isn't tolerated on this forum.....
It is true. And as for my comment about it lasting longer, it's like many things - the more they're turned on and off, the shorter its life span. It's the constant heating up and cooling down - light bulbs, car engines, hard drives......correct me if I'm wrong.
Not necesseraly. Light bulb life span is normally quoted in hours not how many times you switch it on/off. However, ever noticed that they usually 'demise' when you switch them on ...
As for 'warming up' hifi, I have said this when I first joined this forum, imo it usually takes a few seconds for electronic components to stabilize, a few minutes at most. More perhaps for speaker coils and the like. We did an interesting comparison with some Supernaits (for an entirely different purpose, loose volume controls ... another story). The display model, on most of the time and another couple, fresh/new from the box. I'd be lying if I'd say I could hear any difference after a few minutes and I think I have reasonable hearing.
But it's one of those hifi things we never will agree on.
Well SS, we'll see if he apologises for his comment, which I do believe isn't tolerated on this forum.....
It is true. And as for my comment about it lasting longer, it's like many things - the more they're turned on and off, the shorter its life span. It's the constant heating up and cooling down - light bulbs, car engines, hard drives......correct me if I'm wrong.
Not necesseraly. Light bulb life span is normally quoted in hours not how many times you switch it on/off. However, ever noticed that they usually 'demise' when you switch them on ...
As for 'warming up' hifi, I have said this when I first joined this forum, imo it usually takes a few seconds for electronic components to stabilize, a few minutes at most. More perhaps for speaker coils and the like. We did an interesting comparison with some Supernaits (for an entirely different purpose, loose volume controls ... another story). The display model, on most of the time and another couple, fresh/new from the box. I'd be lying if I'd say I could hear any difference after a few minutes and I think I have reasonable hearing.
But it's one of those hifi things we never will agree on.
idc:
Sorry Rob, what I should have posted was the far more obvious 'whats cloud hosting?'
Hi idc,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Hosting
It's appearing more in organisations now where the company decides it's less cost-effective to manage certain applications and supporting environments/hardware 'in-house' and therefore they essentially 'subscribe' to applications on services accessed over the web.
So, a desktop example would be certain companies moving away from MS Office for their internal users (which required managing deployment, version upgrades, o/s compatibility etc) to using Google Apps (accessed online) for a subscription fee.
Or, if you're talking about server-side SME-large companies would use apps like Siebel, Peoplesoft, Oracle Apps, Clarify etc to manage their Sales teams, customer support etc - all of which meant you had lots of machines etc in-house to run that software. SMEs have started moving to tools like Salesforce.com which provide similar functionality but over the web - so you can get rid of those servers within your own company. It's theoretically more efficient/green in the sense that if you've 100 companies each with their own machine rooms, those servers will each have some spare capacity; when those 100 companies are all accessing applications hosting by a third-party there should be less wastage.
Sorry that's dull. I feel like I'm at work ;-)
Sorry Rob, what I should have posted was the far more obvious 'whats cloud hosting?'
Hi idc,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Hosting
It's appearing more in organisations now where the company decides it's less cost-effective to manage certain applications and supporting environments/hardware 'in-house' and therefore they essentially 'subscribe' to applications on services accessed over the web.
So, a desktop example would be certain companies moving away from MS Office for their internal users (which required managing deployment, version upgrades, o/s compatibility etc) to using Google Apps (accessed online) for a subscription fee.
Or, if you're talking about server-side SME-large companies would use apps like Siebel, Peoplesoft, Oracle Apps, Clarify etc to manage their Sales teams, customer support etc - all of which meant you had lots of machines etc in-house to run that software. SMEs have started moving to tools like Salesforce.com which provide similar functionality but over the web - so you can get rid of those servers within your own company. It's theoretically more efficient/green in the sense that if you've 100 companies each with their own machine rooms, those servers will each have some spare capacity; when those 100 companies are all accessing applications hosting by a third-party there should be less wastage.
Sorry that's dull. I feel like I'm at work ;-)
idc
Well-known member
- Jan 2, 2008
- 1,142
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Thanks Rob, sorry for making you feel like you are at work!
Whether it is good or bad to leave an amp on should be the sum of electricity used if leaving it on compared with the resource cost of making new amps to replace old amps that have blown. Since I do not think that amps blow like light bulbs (unless they have valves, like my X-CANS which did go pop) then overall reliability is surely more important to the environment than electricity use. Think of the power used to make and ship an amp compared to the power used to keep it warm.
My X-CANV8P has now been on for about 9 hours today, it is barely warm to touch and I prefer the sharper sound when it has just been switched on. So it will be switched off in a short while.
Whether it is good or bad to leave an amp on should be the sum of electricity used if leaving it on compared with the resource cost of making new amps to replace old amps that have blown. Since I do not think that amps blow like light bulbs (unless they have valves, like my X-CANS which did go pop) then overall reliability is surely more important to the environment than electricity use. Think of the power used to make and ship an amp compared to the power used to keep it warm.
My X-CANV8P has now been on for about 9 hours today, it is barely warm to touch and I prefer the sharper sound when it has just been switched on. So it will be switched off in a short while.
Got a reply from Sugden Audio! Here it is;
Dear Sir
My advise to you is to try an experiment. Leave the
amplifier switched on for two days and see how you like the sound. Then
switch it off and listen to it again after about three hours or the
next day.
It would be wrong for me to advise you to leave the amplifier on all the time for two reasons; wasting energy and a possible fire hazard if leaving an electrical appliance
unattended. Leaving the amplifier switched on will use very little
electricity as the standing current is only 65mA. Our Pure Class A
amplifier have a standing current from 1.1A in comparison. Leaving it
switched on will not reduce the life expectancy of the amplifier, as
components only have a certain life expectancy. It will however bring
the failure of components forward.
Regards
Patrick
Did not post this to prove who's wrong or right, just wanted to let you guys know!
Dear Sir
My advise to you is to try an experiment. Leave the
amplifier switched on for two days and see how you like the sound. Then
switch it off and listen to it again after about three hours or the
next day.
It would be wrong for me to advise you to leave the amplifier on all the time for two reasons; wasting energy and a possible fire hazard if leaving an electrical appliance
unattended. Leaving the amplifier switched on will use very little
electricity as the standing current is only 65mA. Our Pure Class A
amplifier have a standing current from 1.1A in comparison. Leaving it
switched on will not reduce the life expectancy of the amplifier, as
components only have a certain life expectancy. It will however bring
the failure of components forward.
Regards
Patrick
Did not post this to prove who's wrong or right, just wanted to let you guys know!
SlickenSmooth:
... Leaving it
switched on will not reduce the life expectancy of the amplifier, as
components only have a certain life expectancy. It will however bring
the failure of components forward.
?
... Leaving it
switched on will not reduce the life expectancy of the amplifier, as
components only have a certain life expectancy. It will however bring
the failure of components forward.
?
FrankHarveyHiFi:Would you like to call me a ****** to my face? You know where I work......
Everything else I turn off when not in use - but when I want to listen to MY hi-fi, with electricity I'VE paid for, I want it to sound good from the off. So it stays on.
what a simply marvelous way to speak to a potential customer, is this your idea of drumming up business in forums?
class.
Everything else I turn off when not in use - but when I want to listen to MY hi-fi, with electricity I'VE paid for, I want it to sound good from the off. So it stays on.
what a simply marvelous way to speak to a potential customer, is this your idea of drumming up business in forums?
class.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
- Jun 27, 2008
- 567
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Thank you.
I know your stance regarding your preferred retailers so I'm not surprised you've picked the first thing you can to have a go at me.
I was merely replying to someone who was getting up in my face because of my opinion - the forum member in question has since admitted that his response was a little strong.
Funny how I'm not allowed to have a go back when someone has a go at me. If someone has a pop at me I'm not going to ignore it just because I'm at work.
I'm leaving that there, it's old news, long gone.
I know your stance regarding your preferred retailers so I'm not surprised you've picked the first thing you can to have a go at me.
I was merely replying to someone who was getting up in my face because of my opinion - the forum member in question has since admitted that his response was a little strong.
Funny how I'm not allowed to have a go back when someone has a go at me. If someone has a pop at me I'm not going to ignore it just because I'm at work.
I'm leaving that there, it's old news, long gone.
Im with Mr Frank guy with one. No excuse for rudeness and id have done the same. Anyway ive decided that im gona stick to my usual turn the amp on when listening after reading the Sugden reply. It sounds better after a bit but if it does not help the amp ill keep it turned off when not listening.
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