Ravey Gravey Davy
Well-known member
- Apr 28, 2008
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Doesn't beg any questions at all: our reviewers merely report what they see and hear.scienceguys said:
Which is all fine and dandy except the test results are from a very small group of people and ulimtely just your opinion based on your own personal perceptions of what you hear and see and the tests are far from being scientific. Thats why we have test equipment that can measure parameters way beyond the ability of our senses to detect. The differences between certain products you test may well be in your head. I dont know how good any of your testing teams hearing or sight is. Whats the maximum frequency you can hear and its loudness.
scienceguys said:
Indeed: a very small and very experienced group of people, working together so there's always a check on any single reviewer's perceptions. Whereas you are how many scienceguys?
scienceguys said:
Yes: have we ever said otherwise? And if you don't agree with our reviewers' opinions, there is of course no compulsion on you or any other consumer to act on them or even continue reading them.
scienceguys said:
You have? Well in that case, however many scienceguys you are, you probably won't feel any need to read the reviews.
Enjoy whichever film or music you decide to measure tonight.
These are economically difficult times, so it makes sense to check out some budget slimline HDMI cables.
Put to the grindstone with our The Fellowship of The Ring Blu-ray disc, the Lindy shows a capable grasp of colour and… well, that’s it.
Compared with a ThatCable HDMI (£5), this served up a thin and brittle sound, while motion handling, picture noise and sharpness of images also fell woefully short of what we’d expect – even at this price.
Not really better than a free cable
Cap that off with its cheap construction and there’s little to recommend here over the freebie that comes with many systems or Blu-ray players.
Even in these cash-strapped times, false economy is a terrible thing. If you’re going to upgrade, dig a touch deeper into your wallet, because there’s much, much better than this out there for not a great deal more money.
The above is taken from the What Hifi review of a £4 Lindy HDMI cable that got a rating of 2 stars from 5.
How can this be? All HDMI cables that conform to industry standards perform their duties perfectly adequately, hence the industry endorsment. How can other cables be "much much better?
They all meet the same industry standard which is to be able to pass a 1080p signal successfully. Is there something else they are meant to do?
Put to the grindstone with our The Fellowship of The Ring Blu-ray disc, the Lindy shows a capable grasp of colour and… well, that’s it.
Compared with a ThatCable HDMI (£5), this served up a thin and brittle sound, while motion handling, picture noise and sharpness of images also fell woefully short of what we’d expect – even at this price.
Not really better than a free cable
Cap that off with its cheap construction and there’s little to recommend here over the freebie that comes with many systems or Blu-ray players.
Even in these cash-strapped times, false economy is a terrible thing. If you’re going to upgrade, dig a touch deeper into your wallet, because there’s much, much better than this out there for not a great deal more money.
The above is taken from the What Hifi review of a £4 Lindy HDMI cable that got a rating of 2 stars from 5.
How can this be? All HDMI cables that conform to industry standards perform their duties perfectly adequately, hence the industry endorsment. How can other cables be "much much better?
They all meet the same industry standard which is to be able to pass a 1080p signal successfully. Is there something else they are meant to do?
scienceguys said:
1) what's the point in testing something we can't detect?
2) as you admit you don't know anything about the testers senses, how do you feel you can comment on what they can or can't see/hear?
professorhat said:
To be fair to Kogan, there has yet to be a credible explanation of why an expensive HDMI cable supposedly offers a better picture than a cheap one. (Or rather why a cheap cable has a negative affect on digital transmission)
There has been plenty said, for example, by the WHF team that they just 'report what they see', but when 'what they see' defies the seemingly obvious (that HDMI cables transmit 1s and 0s) would it not hurt to try to get to the bottom of why there's a difference?
In the past certain WHF staffers have responded along the lines of 'here we go, that old 1s and 0s argument again'.... but a thorough report into how on earth a cable made from different metals makes an iota of difference to the data packets running along it is still awaited.
No 'theories', no assumptions... just a report looking into 'how and why' premium HDMI cables make a difference is all that's needed!
(PS - I'm not neccessarily saying my own view is that call HDMI cables are the same. I'm happy to be shown that there is a scientific reason behind why digital data is affected by poorer quality cables. It's just that I'm still awaiting that reason.)
If Kogan are so concerned with this "rip off" why are they trying to give customers another lead? If they're all the same, then surely the one in the box will suffice.
FWIW, I'm not especially in either camp. If you feel that a superior cable gives you a better image or sound then isn't that all that matters? Does buying expensive football boots make me play like a pro? No, but it sure makes me feel better. There's no "scientific" measurement that can show that - it's how I feel.
FWIW, I'm not especially in either camp. If you feel that a superior cable gives you a better image or sound then isn't that all that matters? Does buying expensive football boots make me play like a pro? No, but it sure makes me feel better. There's no "scientific" measurement that can show that - it's how I feel.
Not every thing comes with an HDMI lead, my TV didn't. Also supplied leads are often not the required length.Lee H said:
As to why does it matter? My mother in law likes to buy from her local electrical retailer because they come and plug stuff in for her - I have no problem with that ( although they left her TV with the demo setting and it looked awful). Where I do have a problem is that they mislead her (e.g. telling her that the Sony TV they had was the same as one she had seen in Costco and she should ignore the different letter in the model name to make their price look competitive). She always comes back with expensive extras such as over priced scart cables, LED screen cleaning kits and with her last purchase a very expensive HDMI cable - this for a woman who has no HD data source and has failing eyesight. I think this sort of thing is all too common. A lot of electrical retailers have tight margins and try to find some way to add some unnecessary high profit extra to the sale. It used to be extended warrantys, but now most people are wise to this so they have turned to cables. I think it matters when people are conned.
Like a tin of Ronseal, this Lindy cable is exactly what it says on the box: an HDMI cable with a channel for ethernet.
It certainly looks premium, too, with its solid, glossy construction and gold plated terminals, and £20 seems a very reasonable price.
In fact, it's even better value at longer lengths, with each extra meter costing just £5.
The problem is that it's going up against QED's mighty new Profile cable, which might lack ethernet, but boasts a supremely detailed and punchy delivery of both picture and sound.
The Lindy, by comparison, lacks bite and conviction. Its pictures are certainly watchable, but they're not as crisp or insightful, and it's audio flows nicely, but lacks any real dynamism or attack, and that makes it a three-star HDMI.
Another What Hifi Lindy HDMI cable review, this one costs £20. But gets 3 stars.
Can a member of the review team kindly inform us how a cable can lack bite and conviction?
And how a cable like this can be deemed to lack any real dynamism or attack in audio?
It certainly looks premium, too, with its solid, glossy construction and gold plated terminals, and £20 seems a very reasonable price.
In fact, it's even better value at longer lengths, with each extra meter costing just £5.
The problem is that it's going up against QED's mighty new Profile cable, which might lack ethernet, but boasts a supremely detailed and punchy delivery of both picture and sound.
The Lindy, by comparison, lacks bite and conviction. Its pictures are certainly watchable, but they're not as crisp or insightful, and it's audio flows nicely, but lacks any real dynamism or attack, and that makes it a three-star HDMI.
Another What Hifi Lindy HDMI cable review, this one costs £20. But gets 3 stars.
Can a member of the review team kindly inform us how a cable can lack bite and conviction?
And how a cable like this can be deemed to lack any real dynamism or attack in audio?
- Mar 25, 2009
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Lee H said:
1) Not all products come with a free HDMI cable.
2) After you buy a product, the next sales pitch is usually of an HDMI cable.
And by the way, Kogan is not really concerned about this cable "rip off". A previously unheard company hits national news by offering free £4 cables. That's cheap publicity!
But the point they've raised is interesting.
EDIT: And I agree with hammill.
bigboss said:A previously unheard company hits national news by offering free £4 cables. That's cheap publicity!
Exactly.
- Mar 25, 2009
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- 1,178
- 27,570
Not everyone may agree with reviews. But a review is a personal opinion. If you don't agree with it, ignore it. I don't see any point challenging someone's personal opinion.
We have to agree that some can notice a difference & some cannot. At least threads like this & publicity stunt like Kogan's alert the Joe Public to check the difference before making a purchase. Most of these shops do not offer a demo, so people should get a written confirmation from them to accept return if there indeed was no difference.
We have to agree that some can notice a difference & some cannot. At least threads like this & publicity stunt like Kogan's alert the Joe Public to check the difference before making a purchase. Most of these shops do not offer a demo, so people should get a written confirmation from them to accept return if there indeed was no difference.
bigboss said:Lee H said:
1) Not all products come with a free HDMI cable. 2) After you buy a product, the next sales pitch is usually of an HDMI cable. And by the way, Kogan is not really concerned about this cable "rip off". A previously unheard company hits national news by offering free £4 cables. That's cheap publicity!
EDIT: And I agree with hammill.
It is an interesting point. As I said earlier, I'm not sure where to stand on this. I've not done any testing of my own, some people tell me there's a difference, some tell me there isn't. It's Kogan themselves that refer to the cable "rip off".
There will always be sales people out there that try to sell the add-on that the customer doesn't need. That's not unique to the cable market.
And as for the cheap publicity - good for them. It's a creative idea and I genuinely applaud that.
About time someone threw some light on this
As I see it basically the signal hits my £10 aluminium twig on the chimney stack (presumably oxygen free), travels 30 feet down a mega cheap length of coaxial cable, is then terminated with a 50p plug into my freeview tuner. Them somehow, magically manufacturers reckon that spending £100 on the last 3 feet makes a difference! What may I ask does that cable do, does it magically recover lost data? I tried a £50 one from a mate versus £8.99 Wilko. Could I tell the difference. Of course I couldn't.
There is an unbelievable amount of baloney around regarding cables, high time it has hit the news
As I see it basically the signal hits my £10 aluminium twig on the chimney stack (presumably oxygen free), travels 30 feet down a mega cheap length of coaxial cable, is then terminated with a 50p plug into my freeview tuner. Them somehow, magically manufacturers reckon that spending £100 on the last 3 feet makes a difference! What may I ask does that cable do, does it magically recover lost data? I tried a £50 one from a mate versus £8.99 Wilko. Could I tell the difference. Of course I couldn't.
There is an unbelievable amount of baloney around regarding cables, high time it has hit the news
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