KEF Reference 203/2 pricing

[WishTree]

I am seeing the pricing of the KEF Reference on KEF Direct website.

Though on the main page the it says 6000 pounds per pair http://www.kefstore.co.uk/reference-1-c.asp

But when you go into the 203/2 page it says 4000 pounds per pair for Satin finishes.

It looks like it costs 2000 Pounds more or almost 50% higher price (with Satin price as base price) to get a Gloss finish :wall:

What am I missing?? :?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi WishTree

Doesn't surprise me as certain finishes can carry quite a premium. For eg. ATC's SCM40 monitors cost £2441 (Cherry) or £2610 (Black Ash) however Piano Black retails at £4800.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Frank Harvey]

The cabinets for the Reference range (like the rest of the speaker) is made in the UK, so there's no cheap overseas labour. The cabinets have many layers that are applied, each layer needing to dry, and buffed to a perfect finish before the next layer is applied. This takes time, and that is what costs. Some manufacturers achieve this cheaper by having their cabinets made overseas, and some use less layers, resulting in a finish that won't be very hard wearing or long lasting.

 

[jaxwired]

The satin finish is beautiful anyway. Get the satin and save a bundle.

BTW, how did you decide on the Kef Refs?

 

[WishTree]

Interesting!

I have never imagined that there will be a 2000 Pound worth additional effort / material to make the Gloss finish.

I also wonder how some other makers are able to offer the Gloss black and other finishes at the same prices.

Is it that they take the price of the gloss finish and charge the same for everything else? (For ex B&W 804D in gloss black vs my preferred Rosewood Veneer)

Yeah.. I would rather spend 50% more to get a better pair of speakers than a gloss finish!

---

Well.. I have not yet decided on KEF 203/2. My current short list is i KEF 203/2, B&W 804D (Though I heard KEF R700 and they are a lot more affordable and newer design and I really like the sound, I would imagine that KEF Reference would perform better. I have only heard 804D and 203/2 will be auditioned soon, hopefully)

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi WishTree

If you already haven't done so then i'll recommend that you also consider Dynaudio's Contour S 3.4 or Contour S 5.4 speakers as Classe electronics also work well with Dynaudio speakers.

http://www.dynaudio.com/int/home_loudspeaker_systems/contour/contour_s34.php

http://www.dynaudio.com/int/home_loudspeaker_systems/contour/contour_s54.php

Btw, Dynaudio don't charge too much of a premium for Piano Black finishes on their S 3.4's (£4600 + £480) and S 5.4's (£7400 + £750).

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[WishTree]

Hi WishTree

If you already haven't done so then i'll recommend that you also consider Dynaudio's Contour S 3.4 or Contour S 5.4 speakers as Classe electronics also work well with Dynaudio speakers.

http://www.dynaudio.com/int/home_loudspeaker_systems/contour/contour_s34.php

http://www.dynaudio.com/int/home_loudspeaker_systems/contour/contour_s54.php

Btw, Dynaudio don't charge too much of a premium for Piano Black finishes on their S 3.4's (£4600 + £480) and S 5.4's (£7400 + £750).

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick - Thank you very much for the advice. it is really good to know the finishes pricing is not contrasting drastically as KEF.

I just want to share my experience with Dynaudio. I had their Excite (X36) and Contour S1.4 Also, I heard the Excite X32, Focus 220 and 360 (as well as the new range).

As I moved up the price in Dynaudio, the Bass was too much most of the times it was not even there that much but it felt like there are some tone controls in the speakers where the Bass is turned up few point.

it is much apparent with Contour S1.4. I have not heard the contour floor standers but this was the main reason why I discarded the entire Dynaudio (I know they say "We know Bass" but not so much for me )

May be I should bring back them into audition.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Interesting!

I have never imagined that there will be a 2000 Pound worth additional effort / material to make the Gloss finish.

I also wonder how some other makers are able to offer the Gloss black and other finishes at the same prices.

As you say, some are a repmium price, others don't charge. In this case, the KEF charge is for UK employed workers to spend the time hand finishing the cabinets. Although it is a 50% increase with the 203, it is 33% for the 205 - it's a £2,000 increase for both models - it's not a 50% charge across the board. Some manufacturers double the price, some are the same price - we can only assume that the gloss finish for some manufacturers doesn't cost them any more than producing a standard finish cabinet. The R series is the same price for wood veneer or gloss, for example. Obviously with the Reference range, the workmanship involved in building and finishing the speaker requires a premium as far as extra finishing is concerned.

I also wonder how some other makers are able to offer the Gloss black and other finishes at the same prices.

Is it that they take the price of the gloss finish and charge the same for everything else? (For ex B&W 804D in gloss black vs my preferred Rosewood Veneer)

Maybe - who knows?

Yeah.. I would rather spend 50% more to get a better pair of speakers than a gloss finish!

Agreed - I'd rather buy standard finish 205's than gloss or coloured 203's...

Well.. I have not yet decided on KEF 203/2. My current short list is i KEF 203/2, B&W 804D (Though I heard KEF R700 and they are a lot more affordable and newer design and I really like the sound, I would imagine that KEF Reference would perform better.

Much better

 

[WishTree]

Well.. I have not yet decided on KEF 203/2. My current short list is i KEF 203/2, B&W 804D (Though I heard KEF R700 and they are a lot more affordable and newer design and I really like the sound, I would imagine that KEF Reference would perform better.

Much better

|(

I wish the R700 sound almost like 203/2 so I save a lot of money

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi WishTree

If you already haven't done so then i'll recommend that you also consider Dynaudio's Contour S 3.4 or Contour S 5.4 speakers as Classe electronics also work well with Dynaudio speakers.

http://www.dynaudio.com/int/home_loudspeaker_systems/contour/contour_s34.php

http://www.dynaudio.com/int/home_loudspeaker_systems/contour/contour_s54.php

Btw, Dynaudio don't charge too much of a premium for Piano Black finishes on their S 3.4's (£4600 + £480) and S 5.4's (£7400 + £750).

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick - Thank you very much for the advice. it is really good to know the finishes pricing is not contrasting drastically as KEF.

I just want to share my experience with Dynaudio. I had their Excite (X36) and Contour S1.4 Also, I heard the Excite X32, Focus 220 and 360 (as well as the new range).

As I moved up the price in Dynaudio, the Bass was too much most of the times it was not even there that much but it felt like there are some tone controls in the speakers where the Bass is turned up few point.

it is much apparent with Contour S1.4. I have not heard the contour floor standers but this was the main reason why I discarded the entire Dynaudio (I know they say "We know Bass" but not so much for me )

May be I should bring back them into audition.

Nam ask ara WishTree

Your welcome.

Did you listen to those Dynaudio's with Classe electronics and in your room?

Bada mem

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm not sure I can add much more to the excellent posts above.

The satin range was introduced to make the Kef range more affordable, as reported on by WHF here: http://www.whathifi.com/blog/news-kef-s-new-reference-finish-less-gloss-less-cost

As David said, the price just reflects the work that has gone into it, and as an owner of the gloss finish, I can say it is like a beautiful piece of furniture.

Now I got mine at a good price ex-dem and so didn't pay the hefty premium - and (as Jax said) the standard of the satin finish is so good, that I don't think it's worth it. The exception to this is the Piano Black, if that's what you're after (which it probably isn't).

The other thing that David said is that the 205/2s in satin, would be a much better investment than the 203/2s in gloss.....this I agree with, as there's quite a step up in performance between the two.

I will be very intrigued to see if you think the 203/2s are worth the premium over the R700/R900.....given the extra headroom they have, your Classe should be able to bring this out.

The 203 vs 804D will be another good battle....I'll be keenly watching for the winner.

Cno

 

[WishTree]

Namaskar Rick,

I heard all the Dynaudios I mentioned in my room but not with Classe Amplfication. It was mostly on Marantz PM 11 which I would assume is quite good in handling speakers.

Of all, Contour S1.4 was a big bummer as it was too much bass (The others were fine but bass was just too much to be real)

 

[WishTree]

Now I got mine at a good price ex-dem and so didn't pay the hefty premium

That is what I would love to do as well! A good pair of well run-in ex demo!

The other thing that David said is that the 205/2s in satin, would be a much better investment than the 203/2s in gloss.....this I agree with, as there's quite a step up in performance between the two.

This is the problem in not buying things.. In my head I streched from R700 to 203/2. With you saying a huge step up + satin vs Gloss, the mind runs again for a stretch >)

No wonder I bought the SSP 800 so there is nothing beyond ( :read: but I can not and should not keep doing for all the components. Should see a doctor soon :read: )

The 203 vs 804D will be another good battle....I'll be keenly watching for the winner.

Cno

Did I go too much to the dark side.. ?? I mean B&W side..

What ever I read and heard, the 804D seems more logical.

My new (to be received) PV1D has custom EQ to work with B&W range (to facilitate optimum blending)

Classe gear works seemless with the 8XX range. The new Diamond is pretty good and I guess it is newer than the KEF 203/2. Size is not too imposing.

But by not going to KEF - I will miss the UniQ which I love it for wider sweet spots, awesome build and may be I would not get much advice from Cno

KEF has stronger pull as well. Let us see how it pans out!

 

[CnoEvil]

I know what you mean about getting sucked into going "ever more expensive". I was going to buy the 203s, but checked out the 205s and (out of academic intrest) 207s.

Having done this, I would not have been happy with the 203s, but didn't feel that the 207s were miles ahead (phew).

The correct speaker for you, is the one that sounds right rather than seems right, due it's theoretical advantages.

I know you were being light hearted, but as far as I'm concerned, there is no "dark side", only the "winning side".....and I just threw out what I thought you should hear. I suspect the decision will be much clearer when all the contendors have been assessed. It may well come down to how close the R Series get to the big boys.

 

[WishTree]

Fully agree with you cno.

personally my worst problem is hearing an equipment. I am not meant to be able to tell differences at a dealer demo. I need a home demo of atleast a month then I will be able to see what has changed. (Though not all times but most of the times)

I have a lot of fun with my Tannoy speakers but the first impressions were not that mind blowing. Slowly I got used to them, played around and finally I know how to appreciate them fully despite of the small weakness that they have.

Now coming back to KEF R series - quite impressive they are at the dealer but the real story is at home (especially worried about the rear ported speakers) and the reference series is (supposedly) quite a step up so i would really doubt if they are stepping into each others territory.

I am just saying it on the lighter note about the 'Dark Side' but I hope your steady stream of advices will still flow in even if I pick up the 804D

 

[CnoEvil]

I am just saying it on the lighter note about the 'Dark Side' but I hope your steady stream of advices will still flow in even if I pick up the 804D

No, I'll take the Huff and put you on a blacklist!

IMO The correct speakers will be readily apparent in a lot less than a month.....there will be an instant "rightness" to the sound, which should not take more than a few days to confirm.

Speakers that you have to "talk yourself into liking" over a month or two, seldom work out as the doubts eat away at you.....your problem is that you've heard what "really good" sounds like, so too much compromise is difficult to live with.

 

[WishTree]

your problem is that you've heard what "really good" sounds like, so too much compromise is difficult to live with.

I like that!

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Namaskar Rick,

I heard all the Dynaudios I mentioned in my room but not with Classe Amplfication. It was mostly on Marantz PM 11 which I would assume is quite good in handling speakers.

Of all, Contour S1.4 was a big bummer as it was too much bass (The others were fine but bass was just too much to be real)

Suprabhata WishTree

Thanks for your reply.

I see. Anyway the S 3.4's and S 5.4's interaction with your room will also play a part but i think you should find that the Classe's greater quality of power and with their tighter, faster and somewhat lean and cool presentation helps them to pair well with the Dynaudio's.

Bada mem

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[BenLaw]

WishTree, have you already listened to / rejected ATC SCM40s? They seem to tick a lot of your boxes, in terms of their drivers' wide dispersion, sealed box giving you no port problems, and very high build quality. They are also very revealing, and should enjoy your amplification. If the sound is to your taste the only downside might be looks, unless you shelled out the extra for a premium / custom finish.

 

[jaxwired]

WishTree, have you already listened to / rejected ATC SCM40s? They seem to tick a lot of your boxes, in terms of their drivers' wide dispersion, sealed box giving you no port problems, and very high build quality. They are also very revealing, and should enjoy your amplification. If the sound is to your taste the only downside might be looks, unless you shelled out the extra for a premium / custom finish.

Probably a good suggestion given your dislike of the Dynaudio bass. The ATCs are first class in all areas except deep bass.

Between the Kefs and the B&Ws, personally I'd go with the KEFs everytime. I've just never warmed up to B&Ws 800 line. I find their CM line more to my liking.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

WishTree, have you already listened to / rejected ATC SCM40s? They seem to tick a lot of your boxes, in terms of their drivers' wide dispersion, sealed box giving you no port problems, and very high build quality. They are also very revealing, and should enjoy your amplification. If the sound is to your taste the only downside might be looks, unless you shelled out the extra for a premium / custom finish.

Probably a good suggestion given your dislike of the Dynaudio bass. The ATCs are first class in all areas except deep bass.

Between the Kefs and the B&Ws, personally I'd go with the KEFs everytime. I've just never warmed up to B&Ws 800 line. I find their CM line more to my liking.

Hi jaxwired

I find ATC's are capable of reproducing deep bass. It's just that their monitors don't do so in an obvious (oh look here i am :wave: ) manner. I don't find ATC monitors to have boom, bloom, gloom or bling but their low distortion, flat and honest designs help reproduce soundtracks in a controlled, uncoloured and natural manner.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[BenLaw]

Being sealed boxes they roll off earlier but less steeply. Compared to any ported design I've heard (except ATC's large actives), including speakers many times the price, their bass is preferable. Once you've heard ATC's bass, it's difficult to listen to that from many other speakers as it no longer sounds 'right'.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Sounds like we're still talking about 205/2's....

 

[CnoEvil]

Sounds like we're still talking about 205/2's....

.....I was trying to be subtle about it, allowing the idea to gently percolate for a while, subliminally caressing the left cerebral hemisphere! :roll:

Oh well!!

 

[WishTree]

Thanks everyone.

ATC is not accepted by the Mrs In th beginning of this year, I got to convince the other half into floor standers and the Tannoys did more work than me.

Till now curved cabinets, not too tall / huge are the ones that are being generally liked with more wood veneer. Some times you do not want your other half to get too involved in the hobby but she is my blind test target so I have to give her some thing in HiFi (the looks atleast, given the fact that the Speakers are / will be in living room)

804Ds are accepted with more of resistance (the top loading tweeter seems not to be liked by every one). Kef R series is liked alot and the reference series needed a bit of persuasion. So that is where it is from the acceptance view point.

Coming back to SQ (the real deal), R700 is no brainer to me. They are really well priced especially if I look down from the 804D and 203/2 price range.

R700 has everything I need (i heard them and quite impressed. Have not demoed at home but not too doubtful about their performance at home)

804D sounded a lot smoother than R700 but I am constantly concerned about the sweet spot. The way I understand the technology only Tannoy and KEF have the tweeter in the mid range design (with their own names) which adds to a wider sweet spot. I am not even sure how true it is but at least with all the speakers I demoed at home, the Tannoys do a wonderful job with spreading the sweet spot. If this is true and 804D has a very narrow sweet spot then I would be truly disappointed. Though during my audition I focussed on various other things along with sweet spot I can not tell it for sure till the time I hear it at home. Also, I feel that B&W charges quite a bit premium (we all want the best bang for buck ; ) )

KEF Reference series - Never heard it but given the R700 sound and Cno's gear it is a definite strong contender. I was thinking about 203/2 but I get to understand that 205/2 offers even better performance. So if budget is same then 205/2 might make sense. And as it happens, just today I get to know through a contact that there is a 205/2 on offer at the price of 203/2 Satin RRP but the caveat is it is in Gloss Black color (We both do not like the gloss black at all) and the validity of this deal will be checked in next few days

I wish some time soon the speaker color could be changed very easily (I do not know how but may be the way they do the wall paper but slightly sophisticated and evolved to get the finish right. Would be cool 8) ) so that such deals are not put on a lower priority

So it is quite exciting and do keep your comments / views coming in.