Kef R series discount, new generation?

[davidf]

Given what andrewjvt said earlier in this thread. And I have no doubt that what he said was the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, the Kef r series would appear to be more of a triumph of marketing over engineering.

Please read what he said again.

Marketing is present in any loudspeaker range. Engineering is quite another - I guess you’ve not read much about, nor have much experience with UniQ.

 

[davidf]

David, I trust andrewjvt's judgement on this 100%.

As he said. he's owned both the Kef r700 and ATC SCM11's.

He said the ATC's are the better sounding speaker. That's good enough for me.

I'm very familiar with how his ATC's sounded in his home with a fine Hegel amplifier.

Kef can UniQ all they want. It still doesn't make the Kef r700 a better sounding - and therefore engineered - speaker than the SCM11's.

Given the retail price and the size of the Kef r700's I can think of no reason why anyone would buy them, unless they got them for something like £20. Or for free out of a skip.

I'm not saying that the KEFs are better sounding because of the UniQ, they're two quite different speakers - even I have some non UniQ models that I like, and in some cases prefer. You're making a lot of assumptions based on zero experience of the technology and/or model itself though. Fair enough if you're best buds and know each other's preferences well as we all have friends we trust with this and that, but I'm sure we all know that audio preferences are a subjective thing. If you fully trust Andrew's judgement, that's fine, but I don't think that qualifies you to make the statement regarding marketing over engineering - we're not talking Bose here.

A fairer comparison would be SCM11s vs R300s anyway. Oddly enough, I once got a pair of R300s to sound tonally similar to a pair of SCM11s by using the supplied bungs when I was comparing them. Well, they sounded similar in MY opinion, of course, others may feel differently based on their own experiences...

note: I'm in no way playing down Andrew's opinion here (hi Andrew!) as it's just as valid as mine or yours - but at least his opinion is based on his experience.

 

[davidf]

Having recently bought a set they are more than competitive against what are relatively new products in comparision. For me they comfortably bettered the similar priced B & W 700 series.

In my opinion, they're still a massively competitive product. Bear in mind they were released in 2012 - and back then the build and sound quality pretty much redefined what was expected at the price points - and since then have never had a price increase, depsite virtually every other manufacturer’s speakers having gone up - and some quite considerably. No doubt any replacements will be more expensive (you can't improve something for the same amount of money!), so I doubt anyone would feel short changed buying the current range at the offer price in comparison to whatever price a next gen range will be.

 

[davidf]

The fact that some people have bought r700's indicates a triumph of marketing over engineering.

R Series is a range that can only be bought in store, so it’s not like owners have seen an ad somewhere and ordered them via Amazon. Whilst I was at Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, no one ever walked in and slapped a wad on the counter and asked for a pair of R Series speakers. Every single pair sold were auditioned, and that was alongside ProAc, PMC, ATC, Monitor Audio, Bowers & Wilkins, Sonos Faber, and whatever else. In some cases, the likes of the R700 were chosen over other speakers that were 50%+ more expensive, with some questioning why the other speakers were so much more.

During those auditions, nothing was favoured over anything else, and the eventual choice was up to the buyer, and not swayed by myself. If someone asked my opinion, I’d tell them, but no one was ever swayed one way or the other. People chose what they liked, and when R Series landed in 2012, KEF were chosen quite a lot - some manufacturers saw a downturn in sales at the time.

I think your above statement is a little disrespectful to those who have used their own ears to proudly choose a pair of R Series loudspeakers.

 

[emcc_3]

So you have personal experience of demoing these combos against the r700s?

This is in reference to lindsayts suggestion that ATC/AVI and sub combo bettered the r700s.

I wasn't directing this Q to Davidf, apologies.

 

[CnoEvil]

Whilst I was at Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, no one ever walked in and slapped a wad on the counter and asked for a pair of R Series speakers.

...and if you were asked for speakers that were uglier than Medusa, bigger than an American fridge and cost less than £500, you could have referred them to Lindsay. We all have our preferences....and there's nothing wrong with that. A broad Church makes life interesting. 🙂

 

[lindsayt]

Whilst I was at Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, no one ever walked in and slapped a wad on the counter and asked for a pair of R Series speakers.

...and if you were asked for speakers that were uglier than Medusa, bigger than an American fridge and cost less than £500, you could have referred them to Lindsay. We all have our preferences....and there's nothing wrong with that. A broad Church makes life interesting. 🙂

Straw man argument again.

Would you like to make a comment based on what someone has actually said in this thread?

What I have said so far in this thread has nothing to do with MY personal preferences.

 

[lindsayt]

So you have personal experience of demoing these combos against the r700s?

This is in reference to lindsayts suggestion that ATC/AVI and sub combo bettered the r700s.

I wasn't directing this Q to Davidf, apologies.

No I don't.

But as I've explained already, andrewjvt has owned both the r700's and ATC SCM11's. And I trust his judgement on this 100%.

I have heard his SCM11's compared to AVI DM10's with a sub. The AVI's plus sub were a better sounding combination.

Please go ahead and compare your r700's against a pair of active AVI's with a sub.

 

[CnoEvil]

Whilst I was at Frank Harvey Hi-Fi, no one ever walked in and slapped a wad on the counter and asked for a pair of R Series speakers.

...and if you were asked for speakers that were uglier than Medusa, bigger than an American fridge and cost less than £500, you could have referred them to Lindsay. We all have our preferences....and there's nothing wrong with that. A broad Church makes life interesting. 🙂

Straw man argument again.

 

Would you like to make a comment based on what someone has actually said in this thread?

 

What I have said so far in this thread has nothing to do with MY personal preferences.

I'm not making an argument per se (other than that we are all entitled to our preferences), just a light hearted comment and some gentle mickey taking. Apologies if you didn't see it as such. Sometimes taking HFi a little less seriously, helps....and sometimes it doesn't, I suppose.

 

[lindsayt]

I'm not really interested in persuing this particular conversation. One, because I don't really have the time, and two, you can't really counteract the mentality of someone who thinks a particular pair of speakers (that they haven't heard) aren't even worth £20.

I could equally reply by saying that I can't counteract the mentality of someone who thinks that you need to spend over £1000 to get KEF r700 levels of performance. Come on davidf, get your head out of Hi-fi Retail Land. There's a whole Internet connected World out there!

Your comment indicates that YOU have no idea what sort of speakers you can get for under £100.

You can get some quite acceptable speakers (in every way) for that kind of money.

Are you up for a bake-off? I'll bring a pair of sub £100, 2-way standmounts. You can supply the KEF r700's.

 

[lindsayt]

I'm not making an argument per se (other than that we are all entitled to our preferences), just a light hearted comment and some gentle mickey taking. Apologies if you didn't see it as such. Sometimes taking HFi a little less seriously, helps....and sometimes it doesn't, I suppose.

Feel free to delete your earlier, mickey taking, off-topic post.

 

[emcc_3]

I'll pass thank you happy with what I got.

 

[nopiano]

I'm not making an argument per se (other than that we are all entitled to our preferences), just a light hearted comment and some gentle mickey taking. Apologies if you didn't see it as such. Sometimes taking HFi a little less seriously, helps....and sometimes it doesn't, I suppose.

Feel free to delete your earlier, mickey taking, off-topic post.

...whereas your post, lindsayt, about a bake off with a £100 speaker directly addressed the OP’s question about a discount promotion preceding a revised model....? I don’t think so.

 

[davidf]

I could equally reply by saying that I can't counteract the mentality of someone who thinks that you need to spend over £1000 to get KEF r700 levels of performance. Come on davidf, get your head out of Hi-fi Retail Land. There's a whole Internet connected World out there!.

Where in the OP’s post did it mention about obtaining R700 levels of quality for less than a thousand pounds? Did I miss something?

Your comment indicates that YOU have no idea what sort of speakers you can get for under £100.

You can get some quite acceptable speakers (in every way) for that kind of money.

On the contrary, every now and again I’ll have a browse through eBay to see what vintage stuff people are selling.

People don’t walk into audio stores to buy some hunking great pieces of teak from the 70s. Many people want to buy something new, something acceptable for their living room, something the missus will let them have, and something in the colour they want. What is or isn’t available, new or used, under £100 has absolutely nothing to do with this thread whatsoever.

Are you up for a bake-off? I'll bring a pair of sub £100, 2-way standmounts. You can supply the KEF r700's.

Not really, as it would prove nothing that is of any relevance in this thread.