KEF LS50 - for David@FrankHarvey

[batonwielder]

David, any news on the origin of manufacture?

 

[John Duncan]

I expect it'll surprise no one to learn that I don't like anything off that list. FNDMNTL, no relation to Fundamental off of the 90's are they? They did a PWEI remix once, well, I say remix, they re-did the vocals completely themselves, quite an interesting version.

Oh yeah I can totally tell that that's pins-in-eyes music for me. But I rejoice in that fact, for where would we be otherwise?

 

[steve_1979]

Great review Dave. Thanks for the write up.

I'm looking forward to getting a chance to hear these new Kef's myself as I like neutral sounding speakers. It would be interesting to hear them next to some other neutral sounding speakers such as the PMC DB1's, ATC SCM11's, Quested H108's and of course my own Neutron Five's.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thanks Steve.

Batonwielder - they're made in their Chinese factory, where they make the R series. They said that if they were to make them in the UK, they'd have been far more expensive. I did suspect this given their £800 price point.

 

[The_Lhc]

Thanks Steve.

Batonwielder - they're made in their Chinese factory, where they make the R series. They said that if they were to make them in the UK, they'd have been far more expensive. I did suspect this given their £800 price point.

Not that it makes the slightest difference.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Batonwielder - they're made in their Chinese factory, where they make the R series. They said that if they were to make them in the UK, they'd have been far more expensive. I did suspect this given their £800 price point.

Not that it makes the slightest difference.

That's true. The biggest effect on the quality of a component is it's budget.

 

[chebby]

Batonwielder - they're made in their Chinese factory, where they make the R series. They said that if they were to make them in the UK, they'd have been far more expensive. I did suspect this given their £800 price point.

Not that it makes the slightest difference.

That's true. The biggest effect on the quality of a component is it's budget.

That's not a given.

A selection of very expensive components can still be assembled into something that sounds sub-standard because the design is flawed or sub-optimal.

Very expensive components that are not tolerance matched could result in a worse product than something made from less expensive components that are carefully tolerance matched.

Very expensive components put together with poor QC and testing will result in a poor product.

There are too many examples (past and present) of cheaper, cleverer, more mass produced products that out-perform many more expensive equivalents.

 

[philipjohnwright]

Component costs pale into relative insignificance compared to labour costs (stress relative). Which is where China has an obvious advantage. So £800 made in China probably equates to around £1200 for made in Uk (my guesstimate) This assumes a constant margin. I suspect some companies sell at what they deem to be market rates and just pocket the extra cash from sourcing from china.

Not suggesting KEF fall into this bracket at all; I'm a fan of larger hifi companies per se (a whole other story) and of KEF in particular. Still got a pair of RDM 1's, one of the many forerunners of the R100 / LS50. And as for the Blade........drool.

Edit before submitting - I think there should be more large hifi companies, yet have just cast a sideways glance at my own setup. Ayre amp and Harbeth speakers. Sigh, human nature and all that.........

 

[Anonymous]

85dB and minimum impedance of 3.2 Ohms has rather put me off LS50s and R100s though. (And their looks of course*). They'd destroy my M-CR603 (or themselves).

My next speaker upgrade** still looks like being PMC DB1s (in light oak or similar).

*Yes it does matter to me if something is only available in light sucking dark veneers or a gloss black finish that makes them look like £80 PC monitors from a distance (and showcases every dust particle).

** I will do it - even if it has to be a used pair - just can't say when.

Just to point out the R100's are 86db with a minimum impedance of 3.2 Ohms and the LS50's are 85db, sometimes its not all about fact and figures but the way they sound, my R100's are driven by my Brio-R and sounds better than my old naim xs & db1i combo, go figure!

 

[steve_1979]

85dB and minimum impedance of 3.2 Ohms has rather put me off LS50s

I agree that this should be quite a cause for concern to anybody who's considering buying these speakers. Going by those figures it's likely that most amplifiers would struggle to drive these speakers effectively enough do them justice.

(And their looks of course*).

IMO they look really cool in a futuristic kind of way. 8)

 

[Frank Harvey]

I agree that this should be quite a cause for concern to anybody who's considering buying these speakers. Going by those figures it's likely that most amplifiers would struggle to drive these speakers effectively enough do them justice.

We had them running at quite a high level on a Naim Nait XS, and our room is bit bigger than the average room too. I know most of the R series is fairly high regarding sensitivity, but the 3.2ohms minimum rating doesn't seem to be too much of a issue. We've used the R series with the Leema Elements amplifier, entry level Cyrus, and the entry level Nait, and all have coped fine. They seem to think they're 8ohms, as they certainly don't present their impedance like the Reference range does.

They do look much better in the flesh. I was a little 'meh' regarding looks when I saw the press release, but then the press releases usually use CG images. I may have my hands on a pair middle of next month, so I'll be able to post up some decent pics of them.

 

[Anonymous]

85dB and minimum impedance of 3.2 Ohms has rather put me off LS50s and R100s though. (And their looks of course*). They'd destroy my M-CR603 (or themselves).

My next speaker upgrade** still looks like being PMC DB1s (in light oak or similar).

*Yes it does matter to me if something is only available in light sucking dark veneers or a gloss black finish that makes them look like £80 PC monitors from a distance (and showcases every dust particle).

** I will do it - even if it has to be a used pair - just can't say when.

I demo'd my Melody Media with the KEF R100's for about an hour with music from beastie boys to the xx to Metallica to dean Martin etc and the 603 managed the R100's with no issues at all and they were driven fairly hard/loud!

It can hold its own with no problems

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I certainly did! I didn't get quite as much time as I'd have liked with them, but I will do soon.The LS50 sound isn't the sort of sound thats going to be instantly impressive. The presentation of these is something you have to listen to and adjust to for a while, a little like ATC, as many people will not be used to this sort of sound because many speakers out there are far from neutral.They're quite weighty little things, and "knocking" the cabinet like a door produces nothing more than a totally dead sound as though they're solid through and through. In fact, I'd say that they're just as well built, if not slightly better (due to their size), than the Reference series in this respect. At least you know the cabinet is having no effect on the end result...I played quite a few different tracks, some on the Naim ND5XS/Naim Nait XS, but mostly on the Audiolab 8200CDQ/8200P. As I did with the Concept Blade when I first heard them, I could appreciate what they were NOT doing. I don't think many people looked at the Concept Blade in that context, they were just treating it as another speaker and were expecting to be wowed because they were expensive. Nothing wrong in that, but these sorts of speakers need a slightly different approach when listening, I think.Straight away you can tell that there's no "bloom" to the midrange. It's clean, revealing, and lacking the warmth that shouldn't be there. I tried them with the bungs out - it'll be interesting to try them with the bungs in, as this should only affect the bass depth, and not the tonal balance of the LS50 due to it's design. Stereophonics' Mr.Writer, which isn't the best recorded track and can be quite muddled sounding, you can hear a lot of detail in what was going on, and I could hear the cymbal work more clearly, which sounded a little different than I've heard before on many speakers. Sneaker Pimps 6 Underground sounded nice. There's always lots of detail in overdubbed/sampled music which usually gets lost on bassy speakers, but it's all here. FNDMNTL's Serv It also sounded great, but in our demo room didn't quite hit the lower notes (like the lower note in 6 Underground), although I'll reserve judgement on the low bass until I can get a pair home and try them out properly in my own room, as my R300's at home are much clearer with better presence in the lower bass than the R300's in our demo room.

The Chili Peppers' Blood Sugar Sex Magic was sounding nice and tight, with nice weight to the kick drum, and with as much detail as I have heard on the snare drums (on more expensive speakers, I mean). The only boom I was hearing was our demo room, which isn't perfect. The first couple of tracks of the Atticus Ross/Trent Reznor Social Network soundtrack, whilst not having the scale and depth of the Blades, seemed just a detailed and energetic - the LS50 has even more in common with the Blades than the R series does.

I also think that the UniQ's benefit of it's wide dispersion and imaging is realised more fully with the LS50's, which I think is down to the fact that the cabinet is playing no part in the presented sound. Like the Blade cabinet, the front facia curves back from the driver, eliminating reflections that a flat front panel would normally introduce.

For AV, I like a lot of detail. Many hi-fi speakers don't cut it for me, but the R300's have been pretty amazing. Having recently tried out the Audiolab 8200AP in my system, they're sounding even better than ever, and have really opened up purely because of this processor. I could quite happily live with the current sound that I have. But after what I heard earlier, I need to get a pair of LS50's home and try them out directly against my R300's. As I mentioned earlier, I think time spent with these will reveal their true strengths, as they're not immediately apparent.Music used:Boards Of Canada - Music Has The Right To ChildrenFNDMNTL - SubductionRed Hot Chili peppers - Blood Sugar Sex magicQueens Of The Stone Age - No One KnowsSneaker Pimps - Becoming XStereophonics - Just Enough Education To PerformTrent Reznor/Atticus Ross - Social Network OST

Thank you for your impressions so far.

 

[alchemist 1]

I urge everyone to give FNDMNTL a go - great stuff, and they're always linking to free music and mixes on their Facebook page.

If I'd have had time, I'd have tried a hell of a lot more stuff out!

A modern spyro gyra.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Pass - I'll have to check them out!

 

[batonwielder]

Yeah, I'd figured. Thanks!

 

[John Duncan]

A modern spyro gyra.

Pass

I'm with Frank...

 

[John Duncan]

Though to be fair, anybody calling a track (impatient for toast) is worth a look...

 

[alchemist 1]

Though to be fair, anybody calling a track (impatient for toast) is worth a look...

Try'' morning dance'' by spyro gyra. They were/are more leaning towards a jazz sound.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Though to be fair, anybody calling a track (impatient for toast) is worth a look...

Coincidentally, it was this track that brought my attention to them. Now it's one of my demo discs for the Blades (or any other speaker capable of energetic low frequency production)

 

[mattmeer]

Boards Of Canada - Music Has The Right To Children FNDMNTL - Subduction Red Hot Chili peppers - Blood Sugar Sex magic Queens Of The Stone Age - No One Knows Sneaker Pimps - Becoming X Stereophonics - Just Enough Education To Perform Trent Reznor/Atticus Ross - Social Network OST

I usually listen to this type of music too..The above music isn't recorded that good in generalDoes this type of music justify an expensive speaker?

 

[Frank Harvey]

I usually listen to this type of music too..
The above music isn't recorded that good in generalDoes this type of music justify an expensive speaker?

There's many albums out there that generally sound a bit naff on budget equipment, but when they're played on better quality stuff, they almost sound like a different album. It's surprising sometimes how much better that can sound. A lot of well recorded stuff tends to sound impressive on anything, regardless of how budget the system. For me, it's not how well a system can reproduce well recorded stuff, it's how well it can reproduce lesser recordings.Probably the best recording of the lot is the Social Network soundtrack, which is extremely clean and clear, as anyone who follows Trent Reznor's various projects will know exactly what I mean. The FNDMNTL album is very good too, but needs a good system to reproduce the bass and the hidden detail in the many layers. The QOTSA album, while not the best recording, can sound good on a system, but I use the track No One knows to see how well a speaker can reproduce the what I call "up down up down" bass line. The Chili Peppers album is quite a rough recording, and with tracks like Give It Away, it is a real test to tame its bright/harsh moments. Other than that, it's quite a raw recording, but I like that rough edge as it feels more 'real' to me. A really good test disc as far as I'm concerned. The Sneaker Pimps album may not be the 'hi-fi', but many tracks have multiple layers for a system to unravel, and the track 6 Underground has a bass note in it that quite a few speakers under £2+ don't reproduce all that well. The note (or should I say the detail within that note) was brought to my attention by the Blades. The BOC album is another that needs a system with good insight. Again, multiple layers tend to get muddled in lesser systems, and floating synth lines aren't where they should be in the soundfield. A good system gives a three dimensional reproduction where everything has its space. I suppose the Stereophonics album is a far from special recording, and I have to say its not really one I usually tend to use. But the Mr.Writer track is full of lovely detail with 'wah wah' sounding guitars, piano, synth etc, which can all get muddled by the heavy bass line.Mattmeer - stuff like Boards Of Canada, FNDMNTL, Mr.Scruff, Portishead, Kruder & Dorfmeister, Phutureprimitive, Aes Dana, gROUSe, Numatic Soul, Massive Attack, Welder, Bola, Hands Upon Black Earth, Vesna, Leftfield, and a few more that escape my memory right now, can be some of the most rewarding music to hear on a good system. Music using real instruments is at a slight disadvantage as we have a rough idea, or direct experience, of what they sound like. Music like the above is mostly (or completely) created electronically, and can usually be captured and reproduced more accurately than real instruments. Of course, a better system will reveal more in the recording, and some of the above use intentional distortion. Some like that, some don't. But don't be fooled by how some music sounds on a budget system - it could be a totally different animal when unleashed on something more capable

 

[Frank Harvey]

Someone has brought this quote to my attention from a newly published review...

"a cracking little speaker....sweetly voiced yet highly revealing".

 

[Exshopguy]

Someone has brought this quote to my attention from a newly published review...

"a cracking little speaker....sweetly voiced yet highly revealing".

That's very in-depth and informative, thank you for the wealth of information, I shall go and buy some immediately! Where might one find this review?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Always keep it straight forward and to the point!

Im not sure I'm allowed to say.... a.n.other mag.

Clue - its about hi-fi and it's full of news