KEF LS50 and value for money

[hybridauth_google_112370865474665644907]

Hi, a friend of mine has both a new pair of KEF LS50s and Q Acoustics Concept 40s.

Conneted to the same amp for comparisons, the KEF LS50s on stands didn't sound as good (to me). No subwoofer, just Denon 4520 receiver playing in pure direct mode (2 channel stereo).

And the LS50s (with stands) costs more the the Concept 40s.

I know this is all subjective, but just interested in others opinions.

I have heard that the LS50s need 200+ hours to break in, so since they are new maybe its too early. But the Concept 40s are just as new.

I was going to buy LS50s until I heard the Concept 40s. To me the Concept 40s have a much more natural and smooth sound with all types of music.

In particular, I'm wanting to hear from people that may have actually heard both of these speakers in action, rather than looking at specs etc.

Cheers

 

[Frank Harvey]

Unless you're not in the UK, the Concept 40s cost £995 and the LS50s £799. Which stands were you using for the LS50s?

The Concept 40s have the advantage of two mid/bass drivers, giving a fuller sound (or more bass, however you want to look at it), as well as a vastly larger cabinet volume. You should find the LS50s will be better in revealing tiny nuances in any instrument - minute pitch changes, vibrato, even slight changes in the density of notes, say with the likes of a piano. This is because of the nature of the cabinet which really adds nothing to the sound you hear, so you're able to hear everything that's happening, and it's not being clouded by excessive bass, as you can get with some speakers. As I've mentioned before, for me, the LS50s are like a 'mini Reference' speaker, such is their tonal balance, revealing nature, and dynamic capability.

It is unlikely that the Concept 40s will be quite as good in the imaging department due to the UniQ having better dispersion, and it doesn't matter how close you get to the LS50s, they will sound the same - any speaker with frequencies coming from more than one point will change in sound the closer you get to them. I would definitely recommend running them for a while as they will improve greatly.

The Concept range from Q Acoustics are excellent. Along with the LS50s, they're on my list of the best sub £1,000 speakers, along with Sonus Faber's Toy, and ATC's SCM7, to give two examples (although there's not much more to add to that list!). They're very well built which aids their sound quality, and like the LS50s, driven with an amp that gets the most out of them will reward the listener with a rich experience. Personal preference will play a big part when auditioning loudspeakers, as will the user's room, and it is these aspects that will guide you one way or the other. The main thing is that you listen to a pair of each, properly represented (run in, suitable amp etc), and make an informed choice. You'll then be confident that you have made the right choice, unlike some of those who listen to just one pair and purchase. If you feel the Concept 40s suit your tastes, then go with them - they're more efficient too, so will make more of your amplifier's available power.

 

[matthewpiano]

I would suggest that the LS50s will need a better amp than that Denon to show what they can really do. A better amp would also get more from the Concept 40s, but the Qs won't be such a wide open window on th electronics driving them.

 

[CnoEvil]

David's excellent answer has saved me a lot of typing.

As an owner of the LS50s, I would like to re-emphasise a couple of things:

- They need decent heavy stands, which have been filled.

- Ideally, a dedicated 2 channel amp in the £1500-£2500 range.

- Reasonable room to breathe.

Personal preferance has to be the deciding factor, but in order to make the right decision, the LS50s need to be maximized.

 

[hybridauth_google_112370865474665644907]

Thanks for comments all. Appreciate it.

He is using sand filled Atacama stands, in a very large room. Our setup and testing is in a typical 3m x 3m x 3m triangle. Speakers are all well away from walls also. And we are not testing at overly loud volumes. I guess loud enough but where you can still speak to another person next to you without shouting (just to give an idea).

And we played with toe-in angles and using bungs etc, to find best setup for each pair, before starting comparisons with the same amp.

I'm an Engineer (not Audio) but not an AV expert, but I think the way we're testing and comparing is reasonably and practicably sound. The fundamentals at least, for comparisons.

Closing our eyes and listening, it definitely sounded like the LS50s were smaller in physical size (which obviously they are) and the Concept 40s sounded larger, and fuller as David described.

The LS50s sounded 'boxier' whereas the Concept 40s sounded more lush and smooth and balanced.

Probably the first thing I can do without spending a cent, is wait a month for both to be run in. I've read many similar comments to Davids, that the the LS50s get better after they break in.

Thanks again for thoughts and comments. Appreciated.

 

[hybridauth_google_112370865474665644907]

I should also add, that I find both very very good quality and value for money. With the stands with the LS50, they are both in a similar price bracket and I really enjoyed listening to both.

So it might be completely down to personal preference as you all say, but I was very keen on opinions and thoughts of those who may have heard both of these in action.

Thanks again all

 

[Frank Harvey]

If the LS50s are sounding boxy, it won't be anything to do with their cabinet - the construction of its cabinet is as good as anything else you care to mention at ANY price point. Knock on the cabinet and you won't hear a knock, it's too solid.

Using LS50s in a larger room will be to their disadvantage. You'll have to push them harder to fill a large room, and without a sub to back them up they will lack that 'lush' sound you're referring to - lush and sweet are usually associated with speakers that have enough bass to not let the treble take over and start sounding edgy and clinical. Having said that, your listening distance is actually more important as the room size, as the closer you are to a loudspeaker, the less you have to push them. A larger room becomes an issue when the listening distance is extended.

 

[alchemist 1]

Unless you're not in the UK, the Concept 40s cost £995 and the LS50s £799. Which stands were you using for the LS50s?

The Concept 40s have the advantage of two mid/bass drivers, giving a fuller sound (or more bass, however you want to look at it), as well as a vastly larger cabinet volume. You should find the LS50s will be better in revealing tiny nuances in any instrument - minute pitch changes, vibrato, even slight changes in the density of notes, say with the likes of a piano. This is because of the nature of the cabinet which really adds nothing to the sound you hear, so you're able to hear everything that's happening, and it's not being clouded by excessive bass, as you can get with some speakers. As I've mentioned before, for me, the LS50s are like a 'mini Reference' speaker, such is their tonal balance, revealing nature, and dynamic capability.

It is unlikely that the Concept 40s will be quite as good in the imaging department due to the UniQ having better dispersion, and it doesn't matter how close you get to the LS50s, they will sound the same - any speaker with frequencies coming from more than one point will change in sound the closer you get to them. I would definitely recommend running them for a while as they will improve greatly.

The Concept range from Q Acoustics are excellent. Along with the LS50s, they're on my list of the best sub £1,000 speakers, along with Sonus Faber's Toy, and ATC's SCM7, to give two examples (although there's not much more to add to that list!). They're very well built which aids their sound quality, and like the LS50s, driven with an amp that gets the most out of them will reward the listener with a rich experience. Personal preference will play a big part when auditioning loudspeakers, as will the user's room, and it is these aspects that will guide you one way or the other. The main thing is that you listen to a pair of each, properly represented (run in, suitable amp etc), and make an informed choice. You'll then be confident that you have made the right choice, unlike some of those who listen to just one pair and purchase. If you feel the Concept 40s suit your tastes, then go with them - they're more efficient too, so will make more of your amplifier's available power.

As David says the detail the LS50's give is full of texture.

I've had mine for about 18 months and even now they are still revealing even more detail.

 

[hybridauth_google_112370865474665644907]

Thanks for the feedback gents. Will take all onboard. Much appreciated.

Out of interest for the LS50s, what are the major differences owners have noticed in the progression of the sound's detail, when comparing 'just out of the box' to perhaps a pair that are 18 months old?

Thanks again

 

[iceman16]

Just bought the LS50 a couple of weeks ago and they're still getting better after about 30 hrs use. I know the Brio-r they are conected to is just 50w p/c but they still sound wonderful in my 4x5.5m bedroom. I agree with David that the LS50 can retrieve every minute detail which presented in a clean,smooth,open and unforced sound. They are also very good at low level listening and maintain the clarity of what is being played on

 

[BigH]

Just a thought 3 metres apart sounds too much to me I would try them 2 metres apart and see if that improves the sound at all.

 

[ISAC69]

It's difficult to compare standmounts to floorstanders each have advantages and disadvantegs . I do feel if the OP

compared this speakers with better amplfication he would notice that the KEF are better overall . much better ...

 

[plastic penguin]

David's excellent answer has saved me a lot of typing.

As an owner of the LS50s, I would like to re-emphasise a couple of things:

- They need decent heavy stands, which have been filled.

- Ideally, a dedicated 2 channel amp in the £1500-£2500 range.

- Reasonable room to breathe.

Personal preferance has to be the deciding factor, but in order to make the right decision, the LS50s need to be maximized.

Having heard the LS50 briefly last summer, agree they need a gutsy amp (Naim 5si minimum IMHO). And also very important for the OP to take on board that most speakers sound good with the right amp and crummy with the wrong one.

Agree also the Denon won't do the LS50s justice. On the other hand, the Qs arguably are less demanding of amplifiers.

Hi-fi is about finding that sweet (sonic) spot.

 

[ISAC69]

Having heard the LS50 briefly last summer, agree they need a gutsy amp (Naim 5si minimum IMHO). And also very important for the OP to take on board that most speakers sound good with the right amp and crummy with the wrong one.

Agree also the Denon won't do the LS50s justice. On the other hand, the Qs arguably are less demanding of amplifiers.

Hi-fi is about finding that sweet (sonic) spot.

Maybe the Q Aqoustics is a better option for the OP if he has a limited budget and as an entry level system

But there is no doubt that the Kef LS50 are much better overall *smile*

 

[plastic penguin]

Having heard the LS50 briefly last summer, agree they need a gutsy amp (Naim 5si minimum IMHO). And also very important for the OP to take on board that most speakers sound good with the right amp and crummy with the wrong one.

Agree also the Denon won't do the LS50s justice. On the other hand, the Qs arguably are less demanding of amplifiers.

Hi-fi is about finding that sweet (sonic) spot.

Maybe the Q Aqoustics is a better option for the OP if he has a limited budget and as an entry level system

But there is no doubt that the Kef LS50 are much better overall *smile*

Couldn't say with any real confidence, as I've not heard that particular Q. But without doubt, going by paper specs, the Qs are less demanding -- this where the compromise kicks in.

Do you own a very high quality standmounts knowing they aren't being driven to their full potential, or look at cheaper options to accommodate a budget amp? Only the OP can answer that one.

 

[hybridauth_google_112370865474665644907]

Thanks for all comments. The Denon AVR 4520 is a £2000 receiver. So even if we are running it in 2 channel pure direct mode, would you consider this as budget amplification for the LS50s? We actually tried a 2m and 4m listening triangle also, but 3m seemed the best, for our room. And they are a good 2m away from any walls. I think after a month of high usage I'll compare again. And perhaps the first thing will be to add a good sub, as Dave suggested. Then re-assess the next step. Thanks again for the comments. Appreciate them all.

 

[BigH]

Thanks for all comments. The Denon AVR 4520 is a £2000 receiver. So even if we are running it in 2 channel pure direct mode, would you consider this as budget amplification for the LS50s? We actually tried a 2m and 4m listening triangle also, but 3m seemed the best, for our room. And they are a good 2m away from any walls. I think after a month of high usage I'll compare again. And perhaps the first thing will be to add a good sub, as Dave suggested. Then re-assess the next step. Thanks again for the comments. Appreciate them all.

thats ok but if you want more bass you could move the ls50 closer to the wall?

i found if to far apart mono recordings sounded as from 2 sources not down the centre. As for receiver I don't know how that compares to a decimated amp. This has been hotly debated on here before. Generally receivers have much higher distortion

 

[The_Lhc]

As for receiver I don't know how that compares to a decimated amp.

I should think any amp with 10% of the components removed isn't going to sound very good...

 

[Overdose]

Generally receivers have much higher distortion

How much in general is too much and how much is audible? If distortion is inaudible, it's rather academic what its level is.

 

[John Duncan]

What the very?

 

[nopiano]

I heard both at shows over the last couple of years, with rather more KEFs available with different sources. I'm in the camp that the KEF LS50s can pretty much handle the finest amps and just get better all the time, whereas the Concept 40s are fine with mid-range gear and will be easier to drive, so in many systems will give more predictable and enjoyable results.

This is really all about system synergy, which at least partly explains why equipment can generate such diverse opinions. The KEF is a wide open window, but the slightly softer warmer focus of the QA may be more liveable with.

 

[hybridauth_google_112370865474665644907]

Hi all, thanks for comments again.

This summed up what I had in my head for the Concept 40s: "slightly softer warmer focus of the QA"

Regarding moving the LS50s closer to the wall, it's not more bass that we are actually after. The amount of bass is sufficient, but the quality of the bass is more boomy and thumpy and 'boxy' than the Concept 40s bass. Definitely love Concept 40s balanced bass. Not the best with descriptions, so forgive me.

If the bass gets better with the LS50s over time, then great. We'll give them another month or so.

If not, perhaps a sub will make the difference, as David suggested.

And if that doesn't work, probably time for a dedicated amp, as many of you have suggested already.

We're just trying to start with the easiest and cheapest actions to begin with and progress from there.

Thanks again! Really appreciate it all. Helps a lot with the thought process.

 

[nirvy111]

Hi all, thanks for comments again.

This summed up what I had in my head for the Concept 40s: "slightly softer warmer focus of the QA"

Regarding moving the LS50s closer to the wall, it's not more bass that we are actually after. The amount of bass is sufficient, but the quality of the bass is more boomy and thumpy and 'boxy' than the Concept 40s bass. Definitely love Concept 40s balanced bass. Not the best with descriptions, so forgive me.

If the bass gets better with the LS50s over time, then great. We'll give them another month or so.

If not, perhaps a sub will make the difference, as David suggested.

And if that doesn't work, probably time for a dedicated amp, as many of you have suggested already.

We're just trying to start with the easiest and cheapest actions to begin with and progress from there.

Thanks again! Really appreciate it all. Helps a lot with the thought process.

If the concept 40's are new they will also improve quite a bit with break in including their bass performance and of course sound even better with a better amp so I suspect you will still prefer the them over the kef ls50's even after a long run in, maybe even more so. I've owned the concept 20's for a couple of months now and have been very impressed with them so it doesn't really surprise me that you liked the 40's. I'm very tempted to buy a set myself.

 

[tazzo]

Being a former LS50 owner, I think that some of the comments in this thread are exaggerated, such as being able to handle 2- channel £1500 - £2500 amps, not in my experience, and definatley not amps/preamps with premium components in that price range, I eventually upgraded.

I also thought the bass was not that great, there is a limit I think as to how good a speaker can get.

 

[CnoEvil]

Being a former LS50 owner, I think that some of the comments in this thread are exaggerated, such as being able to handle 2- channel £1500 - £2500 amps, not in my experience, and definatley not amps/preamps with premium components in that price range, I eventually upgraded.

I also thought the bass was not that great, there is a limit I think as to how good a speaker can get.

May I ask, which amps in the above range have you tried with the LS50s, what was the source used, what stands were they on and were those stands filled?

Very often, I have found that unimpressive performance, with bass which isn't great, is a result of amps that aren't quite up to the job, less than ideal sources, unfilled stands and placement that is too close to walls/corners.