I'm not even a big gamer and I'm going to have a 360 an xbox one ps3 and ps4.this backwards compatibility thing us a farce!!
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professorhat
Well-known member
This isn't new though - the original PS3 had some backwards compatability (though it didn't always work) and in newer versions of the console, they even removed this limited ability. The Xbox 360 wasn't backwards compatible with the Xbox. And back in the day, the Amiga wasn't backwards compatible with the Commodore 64, neither was the SNES backwards compatible with the NES.
So I'm always surprised to see every new release many others are surprised when backwards compatability isn't included as it has certainly never been the norm.
So I'm always surprised to see every new release many others are surprised when backwards compatability isn't included as it has certainly never been the norm.
Yes but the ps4 and ps3 are both blu ray drives I don't get it? the 360 and Xbox one are different tech but having 4 gaming consoles is a bit much! No one is forcing me to buy them but each machine has at most 3 or 4 games that I will replay but having 4 machines in my rack just for that is daft.
professorhat
Well-known member
theflyingwasp said:
But it's completely different hardware running different operating systems. You can attach a blu-ray drive to both a PC and a Mac, but you wouldn't therefore expect a PC to run Mac software or vice versa.
Plus, I'm pretty sure both the Xbox and Xbox 360 used DVD drives, but again, the 360 wouldn't run standard Xbox games for the same reason.
I understand why you (and many others) want them to be backwards compatible, but just pointing out why this isn't just a simple thing for MS / Sony to implement. At the end of day, including the relevant hardware / software to allow this pushes up the price of the new console - something both MS and Sony would be very keen to avoid, especially given the current global recession.
Paul.
Well-known member
Putting my cynic hat on, it also keeps consoles off the second hand market. They will want to defend PS3 sales long after PS4 is released.
theflyingwasp said:
I'm going to disagree, there's obviously many pro's & con's for and against backwards compatibility. This is old news though, Sony released all this a while ago. Personally I'm not fussed about it.
I'm not happy about the lack of backwards compatibility either - but neither am I surprised. What I don't understand is what will happen to the games I downloaded on the 360/PS3. Can I transfer them to the new consoles? You couldn't transfer Wii downloads to the WiiU, my understanding is you had to pay for them again!
A few months ago I decided to make the switch to PC and Steam - been a great experience so far and of course no issues with backwards compatibility
A few months ago I decided to make the switch to PC and Steam - been a great experience so far and of course no issues with backwards compatibility
professorhat
Well-known member
dangalf said:
No - they won't work for the same reason that games on PS3 won't run on Xbox 360 and vice versa i.e. they've been written for a completely different hardware platform / operating system.
professorhat said:
Hi Prof,
Thanks for your reply. I would have thought though that if you can run games on different Windows OS's then Microsoft could make an effort to do something similar to this with Xbox? My knowledge is pretty limited when it comes to this (in case that isn't obvious!). My understanding is that you will be able to transfer your Xbox profile so why not have the option to re-download your purchased digital titles?
In regards to Gaikai, this seems promising but will it mean I have to re-purchase the games I already own? I guess no one knows the answer to that at this stage
professorhat said:
True but successive generations of the Amiga (such as the A1200 and A4000) were able to run *most* early Amiga software, providing the programmers hadn't made illegal ROM calls and that the software wasn't phased by the newer machines' faster clock-speeds and increased RAM. Amiga did their best to ensure compatibility was maintained across successive generations. They even included a 'compatibility mode' which made the machine 'think' it was an A1000 or A500. But times have changed.
The PS4 and One are by no means the first machines to not offer backwards compatibility to software written for older generations of the same machine. It's been going on a while. Manufacturers are blatently making new machines that are deliberately incompatible with old software, and blaming it on an unavoidable consequence of the improved hardware. We all know deep down that's rubbish. The new hardware could easily be designed to be backwards-compatible by at least one generation, but purposefully isn't. The real truth is they just don't want you to buy or use old games. Simple as that, really.
The issue is that the xbox 360 and xbox one use totally different cpu architectures. the xbox 360 uses a power pc chip and the next xbox will use an x64 based chip - the same that's in most pc's today. If you wanted backwards compatibility all of the games would need to have the main part of them re-written to accomodate the different instruction sets that the two different cpu's have. This is just not going to happen. As somebody has already said, backwards compatilibity will come with the increased technology of streaming.
how would you of felt when the switch from vinyl/cassette to cd happen in the 80's? i can remember and at the time enjoyed the switch and 30 years on still enjoying cd albeit streaming appears to be taking up good strength. still love the cd.
I am a gamer and gone through the various changes over the years and each time a new consol has come out embraced the change but not once wanted to go back to the old games that i have over played waiting for a new one to come out.
I just don't get it, if your not ready to move on keep your old console thats now worth hardly anything and enjoy the new one along side each other or donate it to another room in the house as a suggestion
I am a gamer and gone through the various changes over the years and each time a new consol has come out embraced the change but not once wanted to go back to the old games that i have over played waiting for a new one to come out.
I just don't get it, if your not ready to move on keep your old console thats now worth hardly anything and enjoy the new one along side each other or donate it to another room in the house as a suggestion
professorhat
Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
Well, you're welcome to hold the conspiracy theorist view, but the reality is a lot more boring and has been explained better than I did by cheeseboy. Yes, if they really wanted to include backwards compatibility, they could have done by including either the necessary hardware chips / software systems to do this or an emulator program as Sony did with the original PS3 (though this only tends to work with some titles, and generally not that well either).
But as I said before, this extra hardware / effort required to do this doesn't come free and pushes the price up, since it would also require extensive testing to ensure this worked for all (or at least most) of the old titles. And if the price is pushed up, everyone complains about this - and probably quite a few would complain about the cost of including "unnecessary backwards compatibility" since there are many people out there that have no desire of it (as happened in fact with the PS3).
I could understand this being a major bugbear if new consoles were released every year / couple of years (as Microsoft Windows and other operting systems are), but this shift across to a new gaming platform really doesn't happen that often!
It's not really a consipracy-theorists view. It's just the way modern marketing works. Ok I'll hold my hand up and say on this occasion I did not know they ran different CPUs, but do you think it would have been any different if they hadn't? Have you never bought a new gadget / any piece of technology of some sort and thought "why the heck can't it do XYZ? It so obviously should, and I thought it would." Then months or a year later a new version comes out which does XYZ just like you expected, but behold, your old one can't be upgraded? You might think it's just bad luck and it's just co-incidental. I can assure you it's not 
professorhat
Well-known member
I understand that companies have to make money yes. And one of the ways of making money is bringing out new versions, which require an upgrade (in fact, for software companies, this is the only way to make money). However, I'm not as cynical as to think this is all planned far, far in advance. I suspect actually, companies generally rush something out to market since they have to get a return on their investment pretty sharpish, as this is the way business works. They may well then look to improve the product and, if they need to sell that to again get a return and make a profit, then this is what they will do.
And in this instance, I do believe if either Sony or Microsoft could have easily included backwards compatibility without extra cost, then I think they would have done since it would have presented a USP over the other console and perhaps helped to secure their console as the winner of the new console wars.
It's the way the capitalist world works. Do I wish our world wasn't capitalist - yes I'm sure there are better ways to do things, but I don't propose to have the answer there. Do I think company directors / boards sit there and scheme evil ways of conning their customers and fleecing them for money for years to come? No, I don't think they do that.
To be honest, if people do think that, then I'm not sure why they would buy these things, since it would seem to be fairly hypocritical.
And in this instance, I do believe if either Sony or Microsoft could have easily included backwards compatibility without extra cost, then I think they would have done since it would have presented a USP over the other console and perhaps helped to secure their console as the winner of the new console wars.
It's the way the capitalist world works. Do I wish our world wasn't capitalist - yes I'm sure there are better ways to do things, but I don't propose to have the answer there. Do I think company directors / boards sit there and scheme evil ways of conning their customers and fleecing them for money for years to come? No, I don't think they do that.
To be honest, if people do think that, then I'm not sure why they would buy these things, since it would seem to be fairly hypocritical.
Like I said in my earlier post I'm not a big gamer and nobody is forcing me to buy the new consoles.i want the ps3 for the kill zone and drakes fortune games ,the 360 for the halo franchise gears of war franchise and grand theft auto 4,5 and that's pretty much it ,but I'm going to have 4 gaming consoles in my rack now which is a bit much for someone like me.i have no doubt the hardcore gamers still play all there consoles ps1 and xbox etc but I would just be handy for the casual gamer if the consoles were backwards compatible.after reading the comments about the software chips and stuff it dosent look as easy as it sounds tho.
also with what you guys have seen so far does the jump in graphics look that much better than the current flagship games on the ps3 or 360 (last of us / grand theft auto 5)
also with what you guys have seen so far does the jump in graphics look that much better than the current flagship games on the ps3 or 360 (last of us / grand theft auto 5)
professorhat
Well-known member
Yup, I absolutely understand why you'd want it, espeically at the beginning - it's a shame it isn't easy to do, but unfortunately it just isn't (as we've now gone over a few times, so don't worry, won't again!). Have to say, after I've bought a new console, the old ones do tend to fade into the background. I may get an old one out every now and then for a blast of nostalgia, but they tend to live in the cupboard. Mind you, I've decided to miss out on GTA V since I actually only just got round to completing GTA IV and I know the PS4 is arriving in just over a month!
I reckon the jump won't be that big because (a) the law of diminishing returns is starting to kick in in terms of increasing compute power leading to better graphics and (b) the old consoles were being pushed close to their limits, whereas it will take a while for developers to really get everything out of the new chipsets.
theflyingwasp said:
I reckon the jump won't be that big because (a) the law of diminishing returns is starting to kick in in terms of increasing compute power leading to better graphics and (b) the old consoles were being pushed close to their limits, whereas it will take a while for developers to really get everything out of the new chipsets.
Yes I agree it will take a while for developers to get the best out of the new consoles,I remember buying the ps3 for heavenly sword lol.
Most of my mates don't give a damn about blu ray when they can rent or buy the DVD for cheaper which us fine,but I kinda feel a hell of a lot of people are very happy with the ps3 and xbox360, I just don't see myself having a conversation with someone in 5 years and saying
"Remember how bad drakes fortune 3 and grand theft auto 5 looked on the ps3 and xbox360"
For 350 and 450 quid I was expecting a big jump in quality but from YouTube videos of new console games it dosent look that way. :?
Most of my mates don't give a damn about blu ray when they can rent or buy the DVD for cheaper which us fine,but I kinda feel a hell of a lot of people are very happy with the ps3 and xbox360, I just don't see myself having a conversation with someone in 5 years and saying
"Remember how bad drakes fortune 3 and grand theft auto 5 looked on the ps3 and xbox360"
For 350 and 450 quid I was expecting a big jump in quality but from YouTube videos of new console games it dosent look that way. :?
professorhat
Well-known member
Give it time - in 4 or 5 years time, I think the graphics will be better, and I'm wondering whether they'll finally crack getting computer characters to actually look alive (today's games characters tend to have "dead eyes").
I also wonder what new aspects to gaming we'll have by then e.g. new periphrels to add extra dimesions to the gaming, which the increase in computing power will help to provide (e.g. most people would never have predicted the Kinect coming to the Xbox 360 when it was released).
I also wonder what new aspects to gaming we'll have by then e.g. new periphrels to add extra dimesions to the gaming, which the increase in computing power will help to provide (e.g. most people would never have predicted the Kinect coming to the Xbox 360 when it was released).
Backwards compatibility on PS4 will be one of the services offered sometime in 2014 through GaiKai streaming.
I remember buying the original xbox 360 and selling it within a month or two due the games being pretty shocking, yes it was a jump in graphics from the original xbox but the games still just didn't seem complete
Around 8 months later i purchased another xbox 360 and things seemed a little better but even that it took another 12 months before things started to shine.
I am really hoping its not going to be another PS2 when they try so hard with the graphics but the gameplay falls short (thats my opinion and wasn't the case with PS1 & 3)
One way of looking at it which does annoy me both consoles are going to have one thing in common with the PC is you will always be buying an unfinished game
Around 8 months later i purchased another xbox 360 and things seemed a little better but even that it took another 12 months before things started to shine.
I am really hoping its not going to be another PS2 when they try so hard with the graphics but the gameplay falls short (thats my opinion and wasn't the case with PS1 & 3)
One way of looking at it which does annoy me both consoles are going to have one thing in common with the PC is you will always be buying an unfinished game
Hardware compatibility, product lifecycle and consumer trends all play a factor.
It's not unusual and has happened before.
I will keep my PS3 for as long as feasible but will eagerly await the new console and games.
Personally I tend not to look back and if a game was truly brilliant on a previous generation I am happy to wait for an improved version to be released on a new console. For example, Bioshock spruced up in glorious 1080p and 60fps, with improved physics and AI, that would quickly make me forget I can no longer play the old version on my new console!
It's not unusual and has happened before.
I will keep my PS3 for as long as feasible but will eagerly await the new console and games.
Personally I tend not to look back and if a game was truly brilliant on a previous generation I am happy to wait for an improved version to be released on a new console. For example, Bioshock spruced up in glorious 1080p and 60fps, with improved physics and AI, that would quickly make me forget I can no longer play the old version on my new console!
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