Is this forum pointless?

[Alec]

Lots of ineffectual pontification is certainly what we need.

"I finally came to understand life through staring blankly at my navel".

 

[Sospri]

I have had a lot of people on this and other forums, headphones, turntables ,ect.

No need to boast. It's always the quiet ones though...

Yep, hold my hands up to that one, mean't to read "lot of help."...........

 

[wilro15]

There are a few individuals on here that either like playing devil's advocate or are just plain abusive. Without action by the mods, you either ignore them and carry on or stop using the forum. The actions of a few have put me off from time to time.

 

[wilro15]

But I should add there are also some very helpful people too such as CnoEvil, drummerman, DaveDotCo and others who I can't remember the name of right now.

 

[Womaz]

I think these forums are excellent. I am no hifi buff and I have learnt so much off these forums.

I am not a habitual user , I tend to go through phases where I use it a lot.

Magazines are a great source of information, but this forum has helped me enormously on a few occasions.

I agree that since last time I was on there has been an increase in the insulting and sometimes rude posts. Its easy to have a pop at someone that you will never have to face . Overall i think the forum is excellent and there are lot of people on here who take a lot of their own time out to help.

 

[Alec]

There are a few individuals on here that either like playing devil's advocate or are just plain abusive. Without action by the mods, you either ignore them and carry on or stop using the forum. The actions of a few have put me off from time to time.

So, what's wrong with playing devil's advocate, and is the same thing that is wrong with it still wrong with it when a mod does it?

 

[Alec]

Speaking of mods, maybe this nonsensical abyss baiting should be moved to the OT&M section where it shoudl have been posted in the first place.

 

[hg]

One of the challenges for the magazine is that many of the profilic posters and those with a low level of interest (and maybe low level of understanding) of how hifi works share a common view with the reviewing style of the magazine. You don't want to go and shoot your supporters....

The low level of interest in how things work may be odd in a hobby interest but is not a problem. The disruptive posts are a problem because they will tend to drive off posters that do not want to pile on for one side or the other.

There is no need to shoot your own side. You can shoot the other one if inclined but this can also drive off moderates if it is perceived as unbalanced and unfair. If it is a growing problem the moderators will have do something because it is unlikely to stop on its own. But is it a growing problem?

 

[busb]

Given the inane and often offensive pointless posts to this forum recently is there any point in reading this forum anymore?

As a newbie two things struck me:

- a lot of disrputive posts from people with a high number of posts

- a very low level of interest in how hi-fi works

A high level of disruptive posts from high volume posters seems to be the inevitable end for unmoderated audiophile forums. It will be interesting to see how things develop and if the moderators start sin-binning a few of those posters. Is the growth fairly recent?

One of the challenges for the magazine is that many of the profilic posters and those with a low level of interest (and maybe low level of understanding) of how hifi works share a common view with the reviewing style of the magazine. You don't want to go and shoot your supporters....

Less of a challenge & more of the case of keeping the current status quo maybe. The problem of introducing measurements is twofold: the expense of buying or leasing suitable test gear & training or hiring someone to use it properly (as has been mentioned elsewhere) is not inconsiderable. I'm also not convincinced that taking such measurements is going to shed much light on how something sounds. One area where measurements maybe of use is to check both the published specs (that are often laughably loose as to be useless anyhow) or to check quality control such as comparing each channel with the other such as speaker's balance or null testing electronics. Reading the difference is speakers L to R levels can verge on being alarming!

As to Chris's original question - perhaps yes if the members stayed static which they don't. There seems to be a number of problems:

General rudness to some being outright obnoxious. It's a symptom of the internet where many previously relied on social cues are simply missing so rules have to be carefully defined & upheld.

The idea that you don't join in threads that are uninteresting for various reasons (often not related to style but the range of products or topics of little interest) appears to be lost on many. I'll risk being branded a smartarse by saying it seems so obvious! You don't go to a local history group to moan about the lack of maths being covered or am I missing something here? Is it that many feel their intelligence is being challenged by technical subjects as a friend & regular HiFi forum member suggested to me? If a thread goes well over our heads, should we not either ask questions or keep quiet? What worries me is when some post reasonably verifiable links, others get agitated & demand that no one tries to educate them (whether others are interested or not).

For those who do have a good understanding of electronics, audio equipment, music & studios - it ain't that helpful to effectively tell posters that what they believe is impossible or that they must be fools where saying certain things are improbable or that they might be mistaken would surely convince more peope to take note. Semanics yes but diplomacy can go a long way.

 

[toyota man]

Short answer No. Ive always found good advice on this forum and Ive laughed out loud :rofl: at the humour some member get carried away but I think you have to have to give people the chance to vent there spleen weather you agree with them or not it takes all sorts to to make a world

 

[Phileas]

One of the challenges for the magazine is that many of the profilic posters and those with a low level of interest (and maybe low level of understanding) of how hifi works share a common view with the reviewing style of the magazine. You don't want to go and shoot your supporters..

+1

The forum is certainly almost useless for anyone wanting sensible advice - the answers to most purchase advice questions are so varied and unreliable. :roll:

 

[shooter]

Pineapples are pointless, nout to do with pines or apples.

 

[NHL]

The question should be asked to a theoretical philosopher.

 

[John Duncan]

One of the challenges for the magazine is that many of the profilic posters and those with a low level of interest (and maybe low level of understanding) of how hifi works share a common view with the reviewing style of the magazine. You don't want to go and shoot your supporters..

+1

The forum is certainly almost useless for anyone wanting sensible advice - the answers to most purchase advice questions are so varied and unreliable. :roll:

What we need is more measurements o/

 

[ngibbs]

No, not pointless at all. Very useful in fact. I just wish that (some) people could be a little more polite sometimes....

 

[Freddy58]

Well, there are rules. They either apply or they don't. Maybe a mod could let us know?

 

[Ajani]

IMO, the cause all these issues on the forum is that the moderation was seriously relaxed. A couple of years ago the forums were ruled with an iron fist (arguably a bit extreme, but kept the place in check). Now the moderation has gone completely in the other direction and we are all expected to behave like civilized adults.

Problem is that if people were all willing to behave like civilized adults, then forums wouldn't need moderators. Truth is that some persons will only be kept inline if their posts are deleted and their membership suspended/terminated. it's pretty much the same reason why the world needs police officers/law enforcement. Some persons will only obey the law if there are consequences for breaking it. And some will still break it, despite the consequence, and need to be removed from society.

I think WHF needs more strict moderation. They don't need to go quite as far as the old days when you couldn't even discuss moderation, but things are too relaxed now. So the persons intent on being rude and disruptive have no reason to behave.

 

[JamesMellor]

This is a cost space paid for by WHFSAV , I figure they can decide what they willl allow to keep it active upto the point where they decide it's posts are damaging to the reputaion of WHTSAV , mods or not we are all guests here

James

 

[nsr1200]

I have to wade through lots of info, good and bad on the internet when searching for specifics. Why would a forum be any different? Maybe a little more focused, but it's pretty amazing when you can post something up and get a lot of replies with different perspectives, some good, some bad. I recently got back into Hi-Fi and found these forums really helpful.

 

[matt49]

The forum is certainly almost useless for anyone wanting sensible advice - the answers to most purchase advice questions are so varied and unreliable. :roll:

On the contrary, one of the strengths of this forum is that requests for advice about what kit to look at receive such varied responses: it opens people's eyes to the great range of stuff out there.

Matt

 

[Andy Clough]

Truth is that some persons will only be kept inline if their posts are deleted and their membership suspended/terminated.

I think WHF needs more strict moderation. They don't need to go quite as far as the old days when you couldn't even discuss moderation, but things are too relaxed now. So the persons intent on being rude and disruptive have no reason to behave.

If only it was that simple! Re your first point, the amount of time we spent (and wasted) in the past when we had more rigid rules dealing with troublemakers was unsustainable, and some of them seemed to get a certain satisfaction in being banned and then causing trouble behind the scenes. We're trying to find a sensible balance.

With regard to your second point, I'm now debating that with the moderators and we're taking on board some of the comments being made. I should point out that the moderators do what they do for free, in their own time and in between managing the rest of their lives - and jobs!

 

[JZC]

A forum on HiFi has its limitations because the most important part of the hobby is how equipment actually sounds and this cannot be adequately described usining words alone. People really need to go and listen to it for themselves. In any case how it sounds is subjective anyway and will not necessarily sound the same in different environments and connected to different combinations of equipment.

Having said that for someone considering purchase of a particular item it's often helpful to have one's views confirmed by those who have experience of the same item and also have alternative suggestions. I also often find it interesting learning of members experiences whether it's regarding equipment that I may never be able to justify purchasing myself or other aspects of HiFi.

I do agree that some threads have got a little too heated lately and it appears I'm not the only one put off by this. Some issues do cause a polarization of views but if a thread starts to become abusive I no longer continue to follow the it.

So I don't think the forum is pointless but like most things one has to accept it's limitations and the need to be selective where necessary.

 

[Freddy58]

If only it was that simple! Re your first point, the amount of time we spent (and wasted) in the past when we had more rigid rules dealing with troublemakers was unsustainable, and some of them seemed to get a certain satisfaction in being banned and then causing trouble behind the scenes. We're trying to find a sensible balance.

With regard to your second point, I'm now debating that with the moderators and we're taking on board some of the comments being made. I should point out that the moderators do what they do for free, in their own time and in between managing the rest of their lives - and jobs!

Yes, good point. But are there, or are there not rules?

EDIT : Maybe more mods are needed?

EDIT : I know being a mod is a thankless task

 

[scene]

The question should be asked to a theoretical philosopher.

If you asked a philosopher, they'd spend an age defining what "pointless" meant (I know - I've written essays just like that...)

Is it pointless: no

Is it helpful: no and yes - depends what you're looking to get out of it

Is it amusing: often

Is it enlightening: sometimes - but often not in the way you expect or might hope for

Is it offensive: sometimes - a downside of most forums of this sort

Take what you will out of it, don't get dragged down by the (relatively) few posters with axes to grind or agendas to promote. I've had genuinely helpful information and have tried to give the same. I've voiced my own opinions as I thought appropriate and have had them agreed with (occasionally) and shot down in flames (more often).

Hey what do I know - I'm just someone with an interest in Hi Fi and AV looking to find / share info and get some amusement from the OT section...

 

[steve_1979]

...With regard to your second point, I'm now debating that with the moderators and we're taking on board some of the comments being made. I should point out that the moderators do what they do for free, in their own time and in between managing the rest of their lives - and jobs!

I'm sure maxflinn would be willing to help out with a bit of moderation on the forum if you asked him. :twisted: