Is it worth investing in decent coax cables

[pauln]

If you have studio experience, you will know that it is common practice to have a studio 'master clock' which is used to keep all digital devices in sync. This helps to avoid jitter being introduced by daisy chains of devices, each introducing a little more jitter as the clock goes along the chain.

In a domestic situation the clock is embedded into the datastream in the S/PDIF link. So it isn't just 1s on 0s going down the link, there is also a clock signal. While the data is robust, the clock signal is fragile and can be subject to phase errors caused by mismatched cable / termination effects. This in turn can introduce jitter which MAY effect DACs that are sensitive.

So while you are right that is is unlikely that a cable will be so poor as to cause data errors (wrong 1s and 0s) it is quite possible for a cable to cause clock issues.

As explained above, this is generally avoided in studios by using a master clock, distributed separately from the audio data.

Cables can distort the square wave form of the digital signal to produce jitter however a decent quality cable of reasonable length should not introduce anything that's audible; if it does, it's probably faulty. There's certainly no need to spend silly amounts of money on exotic cables.

Good quality DACS have ways of reducing jitter to inaudible levels.

 

[wbarr]

This is my last post on this, and it is only as a matter of accuracy. I was suggesting that the OP demo some cables, preferably at home, not that he spend huge sums of money on cables. That might involve some expenditure on postage, unless he has a decent dealer within easy reach (and even then, one could argue, it will cost on transport). That way the OP can hear for himself whether cables make any difference, rather than trust the opinions of people like me - who maintain they do - and others, who are vehement that they do not.

One final point, and this one for clarity. I did not mean to suggest that changing cables will improve the sound as much as buying different equipment would. This is one of the reasons I have been careful to demo cables, and to keep to a sensible budget (though the detractors clearly think that spending anything more than the cost of a decently made cable (£5+) is a waste of time, so me spending £25 on a digital coax cable, or £70 on a 1m stereo interconnect is the height of madness). The differences made by good cable are subtle, not vast. Whether as a result of a subliminal perception based on shelling out cash or not, I do maintain I hear a difference with the cables I have selected and I don't feel I've wasted huge amounts of money in doing so.

This sort of topic always appears emotive, hence I've refrained from contributing in the past, as to do so invites ridicule, given the strength of feeling aftermarket cables evoke. The best way to find out whether one thinks one hears a difference or not is to try listening. Audio reproduction is a very subjective thing - one person's ideal sound balance is another person's idea of audio hell. The lack of objective standards in audio, that exist in video (such as reference standards for colour reproduction) is one of the reasons there are so many different equipment manufacturers and why, I'd suggest, there is an industry in after market cables and other tweaking products. I'm sure there is a lot of snake oil out there, and also some ridiculous claims made about the impact of products on sound. That is marketing hyperbole, and not something that is unique to the hifi industry. Whether something makes a difference is down to each individual customer, but it is the existence of such tweaks, and, dare I say it, the joy of sometimes dipping in to try them out, which makes hifi a hobby. The danger is, I think, that focusing angst on different cable types and, in fact 'better' equipment choices can mean that hifi becomes more important than listening to music, which is, after all, why we all invest in equipment in the first place.

I look forward to reading how this thread develops, but I won't be posting on it anymore, as I don't think I can add any more of use to the OP.

 

[Alec]

Whether as a result of a subliminal perception based on shelling out cash or not, I do maintain I hear a difference with the cables I have selected...

There's more in here than the rest of your very patient, polite, clearly written post...

 

[TubularTechnician]

New to all this so I can honestly say I don't have a clue whether cables or wires make a difference, though having my first system for 30 years sat in the boxes unused in front of me I am in a position to do some testing for my own interest.

I would start by saying that I am probably in the sceptical camp on this due to reading posts on here from those in the industry / engineers, however, when ordering my kit I asked the retailer about what interconnects and speaker cables to go for, if any,and interestingly (well to me anyway) he said I should look at products between £ to £ and cable in the £m to £m catagory but didn't point me in the direction of his own stock. I assumed that he felt there was a difference between items and I should search/try out various options from various brands and that maybe I'd hear a difference and find what suited my system ?

Secondly, WHF is a valuable point of reference for people like me setting up a new , infact first, system. B ychoosing and buying the mag I am therefore trusting the reviewers of the products to give me truthful advice. Now I accept in's a paying job and we all need employment but I would wager these people really love going to work most days and are passionate about what they do, hence I am struggling to believe that proffesionals at WHF would intentionally hoodwink or blatently lie about the effects of cables ?

Still sceptical but wavering at the moment.

 

[Cypher]

There are people who think cables are making a difference and people who don't. The only thing I can conclude from that is that if there are differences, they are negligible. Otherwise everybody would believe that cables make a difference if it was so obvious to hear.

 

[Phileas]

can introduce jitter which MAY effect DACs that are sensitive.

I think it's important to point out that all properly designed modern DACs will deal very effectively with even unusually large amounts of jitter.

 

[BMFDrums]

There are people who think cables are making a difference and people who don't. The only thing I can conclude from that is that if there are differences, they are negligible. Otherwise everybody would believe that cables make a difference if it was so obvious to hear.

Cypher, if you've got this far, you will have seen my previous post on this subject (page 1 of this thread). What I heard when I changed the interconnects was not negligible on my system. What my wife heard (completely unprompted, unaware that there had been a change, totally 'blind' to an experiment taking place) was not negligible. To me (and my wife) it was perfectly obvious. My wife told me she could hear a difference even though I told her there had been no change.

What I heard in the shop when comparing (analogue) interconnects was that there was a big difference between the ~£15 cable that I had previously been using, and a £135 (RRP new) cable, on a system of separates valued at approx: £3,500 (RRP new). Moving from a £135 cable to a ~£250 cable produced a noticeable, but much smaller, difference on that system and listening to the music that I had available (not hi-res, not world-class recordings, etc.). If I was listening to a £50k system with the very best hi-res recordings available, perhaps the £250 cable would have made more of a difference.

What I conclude from this is that the overall system needs to be 'balanced' in terms of the expenditure on the various components - source, interconnects, amps, speakers. I suggest that there is little point spending hundreds of pounds on a cable for a system costing a comparable amount.

Based on what I have heard with my own ears, and what I observed in the (apparently quite common) situation with my wife is that changing components (even interconnects) makes a difference to the sound. Why you believe that this is not the case is beyond me, espcially when the mechanical properties of the interconnects (In terms of their metallurgy) can be so different.

 

[pauln]

Based on what I have heard with my own ears, and what I observed in the (apparently quite common) situation with my wife is that changing components (even interconnects) makes a difference to the sound. Why you believe that this is not the case is beyond me, espcially when the mechanical properties of the interconnects (In terms of their metallurgy) can be so different.

Because these differences have never (as far as I know) been observed under scientific double blind testing and never measured using measuring instruments far more sensitive than the human ear.

Perhaps you fell for the old trick of having the volume increased slightly with the more expensive product? Accurate level matching is vital when comparisons are made. That has been proven. The story about your wife could be down to the same reason and she also may have been getting subtle cues from you - unconciously. Thats why the tests are double blind not blind.

Show some properly done tests and real measurements and I'll believe it. There are several instances of respected audiophiles failing to distinguish between free interconnects and those costing £100's - Google it!

Again I'll say, feel free to spend whatever you want, it's your cash. If it makes you happy, fine.

 

[relocated]

BMF,

If it can be heard, why can it not be measured?

 

[BMFDrums]

pauln, I am not trying to get into "The Great Cable Debate" here - I was just putting forward an alternative view to the one that was offered early on that said "...you won't hear a difference". I CAN hear a difference between the cables that I changed in the system that I have, so please do me the courtesy of accepting that. I f you can't hear a difference, I'm sorry for you in one way, but delighted in that you won't find the need to 'waste' your cash on cables. You are welcome to come and hear for yourself, if you like.

relocated, I GUARANTEE that the difference between (for example) a copper cable and silver cable can be measured. Look in any materials reference book, and you will find electrical properties - normally limited to just resistance in most handbooks - but others exist, too. Changing the alloy of the materials will affect many properties (tensile strength, resitance to oxidation to name but two), but resistance is one that can very easily be measured using relatively simple and quite readily available equipment. Therefore, fitting cables that have a different material (metallurgical) content will have different properties. That is a fact (not my opinion) that is measurable. To claim otherwise is to dispute what scientists have known for many centuries.

As for the widely-quoted inability of audiophiles to be able to differentiate between cables, a (very) quick Google search (I have other things to be doing!) revealed only a number of half-baked non-scientific quotes such as Monster Cables not wishing to be involved in such an experiment. If you can provide actual fact-based scientific study such as this, then I will be more than happy to read it. It seems that if someone were willing to fund such a study, it would be very interesting to investigate the full range of electrical properties of different cables in addition to 'simple' measurements such as resistance across a frequency range extending well beyond 'normal' human hearing. Such things might include inductance, response to very short-term transient signals (time taken, amplitude, interference), susceptibility to interference, etc. Then we would be able to say once and for all whether there are differences or not. Given what I know of metallic properties and how they change with alloy, processing and manufacturing, it makes perfect sense to me that there would be a measurable difference.

Having said all of that, I just hope that the OP has received something useful from this thread.

Hoo-roo!

 

[ID.]

My silver digital coax matches the colour of my kit and makes for a more stylish overall presentation. I've not compared it to the free cable I got, but the free cable is black and looks like rubbish.

"Stylish overall presentation"? I thought this was about TELEVISIONS and CABLES. Good grief.

Whatever gave you that idea??? Next you'll be giving me a hard time about my firetruck red plugs on my mains cable :twisted:

http://www.oyaide.com/ENGLISH/AUDIO/products_category/power_cord/pg460.html

Or Ferrari red as I like to think of it. Makes it faster, don't you know :dance:

 

[Thompsonuxb]

No, I'm being dead serious, Subtle difference affect what is heard in a huge way - frankly I'm suprised you cannot accept how the different properties of cables will not have an effect on an electrical signal and that can be detected by the human brain - try that repeat play test and then think about what I said.

You have obviously never done any music mix or production or you wouldn’t come out with such a ridiculous statement as that. (Can’t wait to show the comment to the studios guys next week, they will be rolling all over the floor)

As to denying that cables sound different, you are denying that they don’t, hence it has no relevance to the post.

Enjoy whatever instrument you play

Bill

Er..yes I have and one thing I know, reverb, echo and doubling of voices happens no where in nature, so I don't know which studio you've been working in no artist , living or dead will sound live they way they'll sound on a recording certainly not as good etheir...well maybe cliff Richard would...but he's the only one!

Instruments sound different too as in a sound treated room/studio - room accoustics are dampend, removed from the final cut you actually get a cleaner sharper sound on a recording...some of you people, I swear.

oh...and me denying...no, I'm telling you a fact and I would be happy to come down your studio with a couple of interconnects and prove it to you and look in your face while you die of embarressment...seriously.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

No, I'm being dead serious, Subtle difference affect what is heard in a huge way - frankly I'm suprised you cannot accept how the different properties of cables will not have an effect on an electrical signal and that can be detected by the human brain - try that repeat play test and then think about what I said.

What "properties" are you referring to?

If there was any effect on the electrical signal it would be measurable. Measuring instruments far more sensitive than the human ear can't seem to find any differences.

There have been many blind tests carried out that show conclusively that even the most revered audiophiles can't tell the difference between cables.

The effect of expectation bias and the extremely transitory nature of human audio memory are accepted scientific facts.

By all means keep spending your money, just don't advise others to do the same. Let them spend it on what really does make a big difference - speakers.

What... you don't know what I mean by 'properties'

Seriously those tests you speak of....prrrft

As for the speaker thing, again its not the big changes in sound that makes the difference, its the small nuances - ask the reveiwers of WHF or any hifi person - by and large amps sound the same, cables sound the same its those tiny things that seperate the good from the great. No one suggest huge dynamic shifts will be made by interconnects or cables which is were you argument seems to be based.

seriously, sit down and listen - if you cannot hear differences ...I dunno what to say to you.

 

[abacus]

No, I'm being dead serious, Subtle difference affect what is heard in a huge way - frankly I'm suprised you cannot accept how the different properties of cables will not have an effect on an electrical signal and that can be detected by the human brain - try that repeat play test and then think about what I said.

You have obviously never done any music mix or production or you wouldn’t come out with such a ridiculous statement as that. (Can’t wait to show the comment to the studios guys next week, they will be rolling all over the floor)

As to denying that cables sound different, you are denying that they don’t, hence it has no relevance to the post.

Enjoy whatever instrument you play

Bill

Er..yes I have and one thing I know, reverb, echo and doubling of voices happens no where in nature, so I don't know which studio you've been working in no artist , living or dead will sound live they way they'll sound on a recording certainly not as good etheir...well maybe cliff Richard would...but he's the only one!

Instruments sound different too as in a sound treated room/studio - room accoustics are dampend, removed from the final cut you actually get a cleaner sharper sound on a recording...some of you people, I swear.

oh...and me denying...no, I'm telling you a fact and I would be happy to come down your studio with a couple of interconnects and prove it to you and look in your face while you die of embarressment...seriously.

1. Try playing in a cave

2. That sounds change in different acoustic environments, has been known for centuries so I can’t see the relevance. (If cables do as you say then it will apply no matter what the environment)

3. If you can find me a scientific evaluation where users have been able to tell the difference between quality cables in a managed and controlled environment then I may look into it again, (As will all musicians, Studio and Film producers) until then the facts are that they do not make a difference.

Sorry

Bill

 

[Alantiggger]

Do a blind test with your analogue cables and you will find no difference between them, (The only reason they appear to sound different is because you were expecting a difference, it’s just one of the many failings of the human body) and the same applies to digital.

Hope this helps

Bill

I agree 100%.

Would you not maybe think about say ...after a week of changing the wires back and then see if your wife again could notice any difference in sound ?

Whereas I completely DISAGREE, and have a personal experience of a perfect blind test to share. Here goes:

We have recently completed a house refurb and it allows for a new dedicated listening area, which I equipped with:

1) Audiolab 8200CDQ + wired airplay and iTunes;

2) Audiolab 8000M (x2);

3) PMC DB1i wall-mounted, connected using Chord Rumour cable.

Having spent quite a bit of money on new and second-hand kit, the sound being produced was not what I was expecting (Mainly a lack of bass and clarity), and so I began to experiment to determine the weak link. Given my experience with Audiolab kit (I have a separate 8000S and 8000P elsewhere), I started with the speakers, thinking that their diminutive size was the problem. Having auditioned a number of speakers up to £1000, I settled on the Monitor Audio Silver RX6 and arranged a home audition with the very helpful and knowledeable chaps at Audio-T in Basingstoke. At the second of my visits to their shop, it was suggested that I might want to try some new interconnects, as the ones I was using were quite old and quite cheap (I think I paid about £15 for them 10+ years ago). I was unconvinced, but tried two others in the shop - Chord Chameleon Plus and Chord Anthem. I was blown away by the step up, and whilst there was a difference between the new Chord cables, I felt that the more expensive Anthem didn't justify the extra money. I settled on the the Chameleon Plus, and took them home wih the borrowed RX6s.

When I got home, I plugged in the new cables with the new speakers, and spent a long time listening. However, the bass was just too big for the room - exactly the opposite to the problem I had been having, but I was no closer to obtaining the 'perfect sound; I had been hoping for. I unplugged the RX6s (leaving them in place under the DB1is) and plugged the DB1is back in, now with the new interconnect in place. The difference was startling, but I knew that the new interconnects were in place, so no blind test here.

My wife then returned, having been out since I had unplugged the RX6s and reintroduced the DB1is. I was listening to the live acoustic version of "Hotel California" off the Eagles' "Hell Freezes Over" at the time. She sat down next to me and asked, "Which speakers are we listening to?". I responded "The little ones" (i.e. the DB1is). She asked, "What have you done?". I said, "Nothing". She said, "But it sounds much better." I said, "What's different?" She said "There is a LOT more bass, and it sounds clearer, too. I can hear sounds that I hadn't noticed before - the crowd sounds like they're in the room with us". I said, "Ah, that might be the new interconnects." She said, "The what?" I said, "I bought some new cables that run from the amp CD player to the amps". She said, "You didn't tell me that you'd bought new cables. How much were they?" I said "£100". She said "£100! ONE HUNDRED POUNDS for some bits of copper cable?!. [Pause] Still, it sounds brilliant, and it's a lot cheaper than £700 for new speakers...".

So, my wife was completely unaware that I had bought new cable (this was no accident - I deliberately hadn't told her, as we still have lots to do on the house!) , and yet was immediately able to distinguish that:

a) there was a considerable difference in the sound from the speakers;

b) the differences perfectly matched my (possibly pre-conceived) perceptions.

So, I put that forward as a near-perfect example of of someone who was expecting to hear a system exactly as before, and yet immediately identifying that a component had changed. Not only that, but I had previously been a (gentle) skeptic regarding the difference that a cable could make.

So, whilst you are perfectly entitled to your opinion on the matter, I would encourage all on this (and other forums) to respect the difference between fact and opinion Your opening statement (highlighted in bold) implies a fact, where I believe that none exists. The fact is that my wife heard a distinct difference when she was expecting not to, without any prompting or any suggestion of a test in progress. It seems that it doesn't get much clearer than that.

Toodle-pip!

Shouldn't you not have had your good lady walk in say one week later (having changed the speaker cables back) .... and see if she noticed a difference ?

 

[Alantiggger]

Cables don't make a difference... it IS all snake oil..... nowa day's anyway... it is ALL zero's and one's.... not too sure tbh IF it was any different ?

People are easilly kidded on, always have been in many things.... sad but true.

Such a shame for all the folk who paid many a buch thinking they were indeed buying something that their money could buy more than lesser affording m,ortals.... lol,

so not true... going by all you can read now a days online ? (as far as I understand it all... same with speaker wires)

Mind you .....

 

[pauln]

relocated, I GUARANTEE that the difference between (for example) a copper cable and silver cable can be measured. Look in any materials reference book, and you will find electrical properties - normally limited to just resistance in most handbooks - but others exist, too. Changing the alloy of the materials will affect many properties (tensile strength, resitance to oxidation to name but two), but resistance is one that can very easily be measured using relatively simple and quite readily available equipment. Therefore, fitting cables that have a different material (metallurgical) content will have different properties. That is a fact (not my opinion) that is measurable. To claim otherwise is to dispute what scientists have known for many centuries.

Anyone with any knowledge of science would know that different metals have different properties. The measurements in question here are not of the properties of the cable itself but of the difference between what goes in one end and what comes out the other. The electrical signal. Cables do not carry 'sound' or music or anything else that you can hear - they carry an electrical current that is eminently measurable.

I guess this is a bit like arguing about the existence of God with someone who believes. There is no proof, science tells us it's not possible yet people will not be swayed from their faith.

I'll finish with a quote from a well known and pretty successful British speaker designer:

It would defy known physics if a length of speaker cable, no matter how short, long or expensive or of special material construction changed the signal passing along it without there being an measurable change. The ear does not have some super acuity beyond the capabilities of fine test equipment; if you know what to measure you can always - yes always - give rational explanation to what you hear. So, the logic is this: cable changes sound > cable must change measurable parameters. There are no exceptions to this. There has to be this logical causality. The sound cannot change without the measurement changing. For there to be an audible change in sound there must be a relatively huge change in measurement, because the ear is such a poor instrument that it needs a really massive change in sensory input for that change to be detectable by the electro/mechanical/chemical processes in the head.

 

[Kevin Stephens]

To those proessional sound people who affirm that analogue interconnects don't make a difference and HiFi enthusiasts who affirm that they do:

YOU ARE BOTH RIGHT

Of course cables don't have intrinsic sonic qualities

However when you plug them into your equipment they CAN alter the characterisitcs and performance of the circuits in source output stages and preamps etc.

I would expect professional sound equipment to be robust enough to be imune from such interference. It is anoying that home HiFi gear appears not to be. My experience is that a cable upgrade solved particular and specific problems with the sound of my system, ie being able to hear detail in the lower frequencies; listening to the same few seconds of a CD over and over again with different cables. it was annoying having to spend the money but there you go.

 

[pauln]

Seriously those tests you speak of....prrrft

So why not just dismiss out of hand anything that doesn't support your argument. That's bound to win over anyone sitting on the fence.

:clap:

 

[Kevin Stephens]

It would defy known physics if a length of speaker cable, no matter how short, long or expensive or of special material construction changed the signal passing along it without there being an measurable change. The ear does not have some super acuity beyond the capabilities of fine test equipment; if you know what to measure you can always - yes always - give rational explanation to what you hear. So, the logic is this: cable changes sound > cable must change measurable parameters. There are no exceptions to this. There has to be this logical causality. The sound cannot change without the measurement changing. For there to be an audible change in sound there must be a relatively huge change in measurement, because the ear is such a poor instrument that it needs a really massive change in sensory input for that change to be detectable by the electro/mechanical/chemical processes in the head.

You mean like a fourier analysis to seprarate out the sound of an individual violin from an Orchestra? I'd really like to see that!

 

[andyjm]

Should anyone be looking for an example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing, this thread is a case in point.

Of course cables make a difference. Try connecting your speakers with a long length of bell flex and then compare with 4sqmm cable. Use unscreened lead for your microphone and see if it hums, use household flex for your S/PDIF connections and see how far you can run it before the DAC loses lock.

What is unlikely to make a difference are two speaker cables of the same cross sectional area, two S/PDIF cables using good quality 75ohm lead, two properly specified mains cables.

Engineering is rarely black or white, it is usually a compromise. Will changing your S/PDIF cable make a difference? - probably not, but there are circumstances where it could. Will changing a mains lead make a difference? - again, probably not, but there will be extreme circumstances where it may.

The problem for this forum is that most of the comparisons are between one perfectly good cable and another perfectly good cable, where it is very likely that there is no difference at all -which is why posters with technical backgrounds get hot under the collar at some of the nonsense posted.

- Just a point for the professional 'experts' who post about cable use in studios - there are reasons why it doesn't matter what cable you pick up off the rack and use - people like me specified the types of cable hanging on the rack and the input and output circuitry of the equipment so that you didn't have to worry about matching cables. Dont assume the spec of the cable doesn't matter.

 

[pauln]

Should anyone be looking for an example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing, this thread is a case in point.

Of course cables make a difference. Try connecting your speakers with a long length of bell flex and then compare with 4sqmm cable. Use unscreened lead for your microphone and see if it hums, use household flex for your S/PDIF connections and see how far you can run it before the DAC loses lock.

What is unlikely to make a difference are two speaker cables of the same cross sectional area, two S/PDIF cables using good quality 75ohm lead, two properly specified mains cables.

Engineering is rarely black or white, it is usually a compromise. Will changing your S/PDIF cable make a difference? - probably not, but there are circumstances where it could. Will changing a mains lead make a difference? - again, probably not, but there will be extreme circumstances where it may.

The problem for this forum is that most of the comparisons are between one perfectly good cable and another perfectly good cable, where it is very likely that there is no difference at all -which is why posters with technical backgrounds get hot under the collar at some of the nonsense posted.

- Just a point for the professional 'experts' who post about cable use in studios - there are reasons why it doesn't matter what cable you pick up off the rack and use - people like me specified the types of cable hanging on the rack and the input and output circuitry of the equipment so that you didn't have to worry about matching cables. Dont assume the spec of the cable doesn't matter.

What you say is spot on; sane and sensible advice.

I don't think anyone here is actually saying that you can use anything for any function, but we are talking home hifi, not data cable runs of 200 - 300 metres, (as I recently installed for an event - fibre optic if you're curious) the OP was specifically comparing two analogue interconnects costing £80 and £300. A decently made £5 - £10 job from the likes of Belkin will do just fine and the same applies to digital cable.

 

[relocated]

relocated, I GUARANTEE that the difference between (for example) a copper cable and silver cable can be measured. Look in any materials reference book, and you will find electrical properties - normally limited to just resistance in most handbooks - but others exist, too. Changing the alloy of the materials will affect many properties (tensile strength, resitance to oxidation to name but two), but resistance is one that can very easily be measured using relatively simple and quite readily available equipment. Therefore, fitting cables that have a different material (metallurgical) content will have different properties. That is a fact (not my opinion) that is measurable. To claim otherwise is to dispute what scientists have known for many centuries.

Anyone with any knowledge of science would know that different metals have different properties. The measurements in question here are not of the properties of the cable itself but of the difference between what goes in one end and what comes out the other. The electrical signal. Cables do not carry 'sound' or music or anything else that you can hear - they carry an electrical current that is eminently measurable.

I guess this is a bit like arguing about the existence of God with someone who believes. There is no proof, science tells us it's not possible yet people will not be swayed from their faith.

I'll finish with a quote from a well known and pretty successful British speaker designer:

It would defy known physics if a length of speaker cable, no matter how short, long or expensive or of special material construction changed the signal passing along it without there being an measurable change. The ear does not have some super acuity beyond the capabilities of fine test equipment; if you know what to measure you can always - yes always - give rational explanation to what you hear. So, the logic is this: cable changes sound > cable must change measurable parameters. There are no exceptions to this. There has to be this logical causality. The sound cannot change without the measurement changing. For there to be an audible change in sound there must be a relatively huge change in measurement, because the ear is such a poor instrument that it needs a really massive change in sensory input for that change to be detectable by the electro/mechanical/chemical processes in the head.

Thank you, 'pauln', for saving me the trouble of saying what you have just pointed out.

 

[Philim]

Tonight i was somwhat astounded at the difference my analogue cables make to my system.

I played around with chord cobra plus vee, chord chameleon silver and atlas titan. So ranging in the 80 - 300 quid bracket.

The cobra was very warm but lacked clarity. Chameleon was very good but the atlas was on another level revealing detail and clarity that just wasnt there before.

My quesion is will investing in a coax of similar quality bring similar benefits or is digital just 1s and 0s no matter what? I am currently using an ixos 105.

System is nait xs, ae radiance 3, squeezebox via rlink. Teddy or hicap dr maybe next.......

Im beginning to think i should have kept my mouth shut....

 

[CnoEvil]

Tonight i was somwhat astounded at the difference my analogue cables make to my system.

I played around with chord cobra plus vee, chord chameleon silver and atlas titan. So ranging in the 80 - 300 quid bracket.

The cobra was very warm but lacked clarity. Chameleon was very good but the atlas was on another level revealing detail and clarity that just wasnt there before.

My quesion is will investing in a coax of similar quality bring similar benefits or is digital just 1s and 0s no matter what? I am currently using an ixos 105.

System is nait xs, ae radiance 3, squeezebox via rlink. Teddy or hicap dr maybe next.......

Im beginning to think i should have kept my mouth shut....

Just be aware that you are not alone..........it's just that those who believe in cables are inclined to stay clear, rather than be drawn into a fruitless polemic debate.