Is it true that money buys you quality?

[Anonymous]

I think its a totally fair point. It seems to me there is a massive difference between loving music and wanting a sweet sounding hi fi, and some of the crazy stuff that goes on in persuit of the 'perfect sound' (which will never exist). I agree that having 10k worth of hi fi is a little perverse given the good that kind of money can do for others.

Spending money on hi fi is a selfish act at the end of the day. Nothing wrong with that in moderation, but spending thousands on music equipment is a little perverse in my opinion.

From another angle, I would be rather nervous to even use such expensive equipment. Imagine the cost of repairs, accidental damage, and what happens if someone caves your back door in and scarpers with your precious? Get insurance I hear you cry, but if the local kiddies hear that sweet sound coming out of your windows in the summer, they're gonna want to share your pleasure around amongst themselves.

Sounds like too much worry to me, I like to relax and enjoy my hi fi without being too uptight about it. Just my opinion of course, hehe...

 

[idc]

Captain Destructo:

What I can't understand is how people can spend large amounts of money of Hi-fi when there are millions of people starving, dieing from diseases caused by unsanatory conditions etc.

Since some charities can be quite wasteful with administration costs and often get the logistics wrong and send inappropriate items, such as high heeled shoes to an earthquake relief effort, I prefer to cut out the middle man. I send money straight to the dictators and warlords.

Captain Destructo:

I don't think I could stomach having a £10,000 system sitting in a room...

Why should you need to anyway? Are people saying they can't enjoy listening to music unless it's a close-to-perfect reproduction?

Same here, but for different reasons. The high end systems I have heard have all be hifi shops and so should be perferctly setup. But they have all sounded rubbish to me. I don't think I would ever get real enjoyment from such a system.

It is also surprising how many people there are who strive for perfect reproduction. I tried a bit rate comparison test recently and was glad I could not tell the difference. There were a number of others who announced the difference was clear and went on about 'artifices' in the music which 'ruined their enjoyment'. Comments were also made such as 'can you really not tell the difference?' as if I and another who admitted to not hearing anything, were in the wrong.

I am listening to my £15 amplifier as I type. It sounds brilliant, gives me great pleasure and as I said I am glad not to be a perfectionist. I see such people as type 1 audiophiles. I am a type 2 audiophile, I like the hifi, prefer the music and don't need to perfection.

 

[jc.com]

Cidershed:

From another angle, I would be rather nervous to even use such expensive equipment. Imagine the cost of repairs, accidental damage, and what happens if someone caves your back door in and scarpers with your precious? Get insurance I hear you cry, but if the local kiddies hear that sweet sound coming out of your windows in the summer, they're gonna want to share your pleasure around amongst themselves.

The local kiddies will nick whatever you have, if they're that way inclined, be it £10K hifi or something costing 50p. It's unlikely they'll be fussy about the sound either before or once the've broken in. I had an expensive TT nicked (Transcriptors) but they left the Quad amp. They also nicked a bottle of cheap blended scotch and left the 3 bottles of single malt. I attribute the first to the belief that "it's shiny, it must be worth something (and the amp isn't so musn't be!)" , and the latter to the "I've seen Teachers in the shops - dunno what this other stuff is" .

Kids, eh?

 

[Anonymous]

On another forum for Cyrus users, a guy called shrink came up with the rule of thirds :

You need to pay 3 times as much to get a significantly better system.

I like this and it fits with my personal experience -

My previous system with NAD CD player, Magnum IA70 amp and B&W 602S3 speakers cost about 1000 quid.

My present system cost about 3000 quid (excluding home cinema bits) and is significantly better.

To get a much system I would need to spend 9000 quid.

This is not to say slightly better components, especially cables etc cannot improve a system. Its just that you need to spend a lot more money to get a better system.

 

[Anonymous]

Cidershed:Spending money on hi fi is a selfish act at the end of the day. Nothing wrong with that in moderation, but spending thousands on music equipment is a little perverse in my opinion.

Where would you draw the line......You could argue that all we need is one of Tesco's specials.....it plays music. Anything else could be argued as being over the top.

 

[SteveR750]

Cidershed:
I think its a totally fair point. It seems to me there is a massive difference between loving music and wanting a sweet sounding hi fi, and some of the crazy stuff that goes on in persuit of the 'perfect sound' (which will never exist). I agree that having 10k worth of hi fi is a little perverse given the good that kind of money can do for others.

Spending money on hi fi is a selfish act at the end of the day. Nothing wrong with that in moderation, but spending thousands on music equipment is a little perverse in my opinion.

From another angle, I would be rather nervous to even use such expensive equipment. Imagine the cost of repairs, accidental damage, and what happens if someone caves your back door in and scarpers with your precious? Get insurance I hear you cry, but if the local kiddies hear that sweet sound coming out of your windows in the summer, they're gonna want to share your pleasure around amongst themselves.

Sounds like too much worry to me, I like to relax and enjoy my hi fi without being too uptight about it. Just my opinion of course, hehe...

ergo so is breathing someones air, eating someones food. Death if a fact of life, why do we all make such an issue of what nature does and is....get over it! If I choose to spend all my money on some gadgets so be it, you might not like me for it but that is the nature of a democracy.

 

[Anonymous]

jc.com:

Back on topic. If a few £ worth of capacitors, a soldering iron and some knowhow is all it takes to transform some of the off-the-shelf speakers into something from another class, why don't the manufacturers of said speakers do it: I'm sure they'd recoup the outlay.

Lots of manufactures do, as they know most people can't handle a soldering iron, and charge you a good extra profit margin for the privilege!

 

[Anonymous]

angelface59:
This is not to say slightly better components, especially cables etc cannot improve a system. Its just that you need to spend a lot more money to get a better system.

You mean a different sounding system. Spending money does not guarantee you a more accurate sounding one, just different colourations.

 

[Anonymous]

Captain Destructo:

I don't think I could stomach having a £10,000 system sitting in a room...

Why should you need to anyway? Are people saying they can't enjoy listening to music unless it's a close-to-perfect reproduction?

A lot of the people who spend that kind of money gave up enjoying music long ago, they spend their time listening to the equipment - looking for flaws.

 

[a91gti]

Stumpy21:jc.com:

Back on topic. If a few £ worth of capacitors, a soldering iron and some knowhow is all it takes to transform some of the off-the-shelf speakers into something from another class, why don't the manufacturers of said speakers do it: I'm sure they'd recoup the outlay.

Lots of manufactures do, as they know most people can't handle a soldering iron, and charge you a good extra profit margin for the privilege!

Well said. Those companies that dont fit that few £`s worth of caps and such choose not to do so as they have a budget to follow. Why do you think each company has a range of cdp`s or speakers etc? Its the budget kit that keeps most hifi manufacturers in business by guaranteeing an income with which to make the odd bit of "high-end".

Have a look around the internet and you`ll find lots of companies offering upgrades to lots of hifi. Why is it so hard to accept that the same can be achieved in my livingroom by my own hand?

 

[Thaiman]

Most People wouldn't think twice about pay ten thounsand of pounds for a family car that lost money quicker than northern rock shares. And then there is petrol cost, insurance and maintainence...for what? So you can get in the traffic jam and have a real bad mood if someone cut you up??

Highend hifi made people like me feel happy everytime I press play, the enjoyment they bring is priceless to my mind and if I kept the system for 10 years with an average listening times of 2 hours a day well that's damm cheap in my book.

I am not try to justify my spending to anyone, I don't need to but comments like "all highend hifi gears I have heard are rubbish" is just pure silly! It's like saying Bentley drive like a Fiesta

and for the other comment like "while millions of people starving, dieing from diseases" Well How do you know that people who buy highend gears don't help the world?, In fact there is more chance of a big fat chq come out from me on the red nose day than many others....Ask yourself first, What have you done to help other before thinking Why wouldn't they help others?!!!

Rant over

TM

 

[Anonymous]

angelface59:
On another forum for Cyrus users, a guy called shrink came up with the rule of thirds :

You need to pay 3 times as much to get a significantly better system.

I like this and it fits with my personal experience -

My previous system with NAD CD player, Magnum IA70 amp and B&W 602S3 speakers cost about 1000 quid.

My present system cost about 3000 quid (excluding home cinema bits) and is significantly better.

To get a much system I would need to spend 9000 quid.

This is not to say slightly better components, especially cables etc cannot improve a system. Its just that you need to spend a lot more money to get a better system.

Couldn't agree with you more. My own experience reflects the exact same findings.

 

[professorhat]

trevor79:With the ART Emotions range the only difference in the thousand of pounds cost is in the cross overs and internal wiring, the component costs being about 20% of the retail prices!

I love the way sometimes the retail price of something is compared to the cost of the components used as an example of being ripped off.

It's as if a few guys who were bored thought, "We should design a new speaker", so they picked up a few components which were lying about, assembled them in a couple of hours and then started selling them at 5 times the price of the components they used, cackling at all the money they made from a few hours work.

 

[Anonymous]

raym87:Captain Destructo:

What I can't understand is how people can spend large amounts of money of Hi-fi when there are millions of people starving, dieing from diseases caused by unsanatory conditions etc.

I don't think I could stomach having a £10,000 system sitting in a room...

Why should you need to anyway? Are people saying they can't enjoy listening to music unless it's a close-to-perfect reproduction?

You are obviously waiting for someone to bite so lets pretend I'm your first fish of the day. The way I see it is this....I have worked damn hard for the money I get and if I choose to spend it on hifi, a fancy car or even the nightshift lady standing on a street corner.....I will. If I want to support charities and give it all away to some good cause, I will. What I dont need is someone making, pressurising or moralising me into making decisions. I am old enough and ugly enough to be able to do that for myself and thats exectly what I'm going to do. You obviously have very stongly held views and thats a good thing. Voltaire would be poud of you but like the previous poster said.....'whats this got to do with music?'

Your earnings are your own. I didn't mean that we (in the west) are able to become wealthy because of exploitation of the Third World or anything like that. (but it's still hard to see how the entire world's population could achieve this standard of living)

Those wre just my own thoughts about how I might feel spending that much. Perhaps inappropriate for this forum.

A lot of the music I listen to would have been recorded for so little anyway that playing it through a super-expensive system seems ridiculous.

For example playing Iggy Pop through some uber costly transport feeding a high-resolution DAC, connected to Pre-amp, monoblocks etc... the whole deal. That just doesn't feel right. Another time, another forum...

 

[Anonymous]

Thaiman:

Most People wouldn't think twice about pay ten thounsand of pounds for a family car that lost money quicker than northern rock shares. And then there is petrol cost, insurance and maintainence...for what? So you can get in the traffic jam and have a real bad mood if someone cut you up??

Yeah but that car at least performs it's necessary function - getting you where you need to be.

Hi-fi (and home cinema) is about idle enjoyment.

I really think you can get a decent sounding system for around £1,500 these days. Components near the £500 mark seem to sound pretty well-rounded, and you could probably still do okay for less.

 

[Anonymous]

That's what I thought until I went to a High-end show in Paris. Most but not all high end systems have a level of detail and smoothness that a 1500 quid system can't match. Of course the better the system the more you have to spend to significantly improve it!

Of course I never spend 10 thousand quid on a new car!

 

[Anonymous]

Captain Destructo:Thaiman:

Most People wouldn't think twice about pay ten thounsand of pounds for a family car that lost money quicker than northern rock shares. And then there is petrol cost, insurance and maintainence...for what? So you can get in the traffic jam and have a real bad mood if someone cut you up??

Yeah but that car at least performs it's necessary function - getting you where you need to be.

Hi-fi (and home cinema) is about idle enjoyment.

I really think you can get a decent sounding system for around £1,500 these days. Components near the £500 mark seem to sound pretty well-rounded, and you could probably still do okay for less.

So does a HiFi......Like I said previously....if all you want is something to play CDs then why not you for one of the Tesco specials. Why do people spend 10s of thousands on a flash motor when a basic model will, quote..' get you where you need to be'

Idle enjoyment..

...Its a sad state of affairs when we can't take pleasure from doing whatever we like to do in our spare time.....

Looking at your sig...you have a very respectable setup there that I am sure many would aspire to, on the other hand, I am sure there are many who would say why spend all that money just to play music, I'm off to Tesco's for one of their HiFi's.

 

[jc.com]

CaptainDestructo:

Yeah but that car at least performs it's necessary function - getting you where you need to be.

Hi-fi (and home cinema) is about idle enjoyment.

I really think you can get a decent sounding system for around £1,500 these days. Components near the £500 mark seem to sound pretty well-rounded, and you could probably still do okay for less.

Of course, you don't need that - take public transport, or stay home, grow veg and milk the goat

CaptainDestructo:

Hi-fi (and home cinema) is about idle enjoyment.

I really think you can get a decent sounding system for around £1,500 these days. Components near the £500 mark seem to sound pretty well-rounded, and you could probably still do okay for less.

Some people would agree, others not. Why should there be an arbitrary limit?

 

[jc.com]

andrewknight:Stumpy21:jc.com:

Back on topic. If a few £ worth of capacitors, a soldering iron and some knowhow is all it takes to transform some of the off-the-shelf speakers into something from another class, why don't the manufacturers of said speakers do it: I'm sure they'd recoup the outlay.

Lots of manufactures do, as they know most people can't handle a soldering iron, and charge you a good extra profit margin for the privilege!

Well said. Those companies that dont fit that few £`s worth of caps and such choose not to do so as they have a budget to follow. Why do you think each company has a range of cdp`s or speakers etc? Its the budget kit that keeps most hifi manufacturers in business by guaranteeing an income with which to make the odd bit of "high-end".

Have a look around the internet and you`ll find lots of companies offering upgrades to lots of hifi. Why is it so hard to accept that the same can be achieved in my livingroom by my own hand?

I think you miss my point slighty - I wasn't trying to impugn your skills. I was suggesting that I'd happily pay an extra tenner if it gave me the leap in performance that is being suggested. I know companies have to make a profit, and they aim at price bands to maximise their potential income from different "market segments", but I would have thought that if what is being said is so easy to achieve, someone would do it and, having received their WHF five-star recommendation as a (for want of a better phrase) giant-killer, sit back and watch the profits roll in.

 

[jc.com]

Captain Destructo:

For example playing Iggy Pop through some uber costly transport feeding a high-resolution DAC, connected to Pre-amp, monoblocks etc... the whole deal. That just doesn't feel right. Another time, another forum...

When I take that little silver disc out of its box (please, not the vinyl/CD debate!) I want to hear what the engineers and producers decided was the way it should sound. (I know this is an impossible task, unless I bought duplicate copies of all the gear in every recording studio that was used for every CD in my collection) I want to hear the distortion (or lack of) they put there, not some my kit puts there, so I spend what I feel comfortable with on the hifi (I also give (some) money to good causes and go all gooey when the Andrex puppy appears on TV). If you feel you want to spend more or less is OK, but surely the point is to try to reproduce what's on the disc as faithfully as possible, otherwise you might as well take your cassette recorder down to the local on karaoke night?

 

[gbhsi1]

Did not expect such a response! but cool

 

[PJPro]

Money does buy you quality, without a doubt. But quality does not necessarily sound better.

As I've assembled the parts for my dual mono power amps, during a rash moment, I spent £50 on 4 binding posts and 2 rca sockets. And they exhude quality. Fanastic.

Will the amps sound better than if I'd spent £10 on these items? Probably not but, undeniably, the quality of the amps would have been reduced.