Is it over?

[manicm]

The Harman group (Samsung uber alles, owns Arcam, JBL, etc) to take over Masimo (Denon, Marantz, B&W et al).

My take is that Denon won't survive. Having not released any significant new model in 6 years, their soundbar line is effectively dead and buried. With the exception of a few flagship components, their hi-fi line is rapidly ageing. Like the soundbar range, they also left their premium compact hi-fi components to die as well. They produce a nice flagship direct drive turntable though. But that's it really.

Harman is buying Bowers & Wilkins, Marantz and Denon as Masimo sells its consumer audio business

The $350m transaction is expected to close by the end of the year

www.whathifi.com

 

[R2D2]

Thanks for the link, I hadn’t seen that news! 👍

 

[ToppingSMSL]

It's possible Harman will revive them. Who knows.

 

[RoA]

It is the future of Hifi (and present). Many brands would not survive on their own were they not part of a larger group.

Bose took over Macintosh, IAG successfully took over established old names. Some bemoan the 'loss of heritage' but I do not really care were stuff is made as long as it is good.

 

[R2D2]

The Harman group (Samsung uber alles, owns Arcam, JBL, etc) to take over Masimo (Denon, Marantz, B&W et al).

My take is that Denon won't survive. Having not released any significant new model in 6 years, their soundbar line is effectively dead and buried. With the exception of a few flagship components, their hi-fi line is rapidly ageing. Like the soundbar range, they also left their premium compact hi-fi components to die as well. They produce a nice flagship direct drive turntable though. But that's it really.

Harman is buying Bowers & Wilkins, Marantz and Denon as Masimo sells its consumer audio business

The $350m transaction is expected to close by the end of the year

www.whathifi.com

I did wonder what will happen to Denon now too because I just bought a Denon 2800h amp but then decided to cancel, I bought because I thought they might not release one as good and as cheap again, but decided it wasn’t really what I wanted even though I really liked it. Just bought a Pioneer VSX-LX805 amp instead.

 

[DCarmi]

$350 million does not seem a lot for that bundle of brands WHF mentions. Considering that Harman was bought by Samsung for $8bn. There again, the fit for Masimo seemed a bit odd.

I'm not sure that Denon, Marantz and Arcam will all survive as brands, as they all play in a similar field . There will also be a plethora of speaker manufacturers under the Samsung wing.

It will be interesting to see if Harman/Samsung can do anything with HEOS. It feels as though integration between streaming devices could be better developed. Especially since they also own Roon.

 

[Jasonovich]

The Harman group (Samsung uber alles, owns Arcam, JBL, etc) to take over Masimo (Denon, Marantz, B&W et al).

My take is that Denon won't survive. Having not released any significant new model in 6 years, their soundbar line is effectively dead and buried. With the exception of a few flagship components, their hi-fi line is rapidly ageing. Like the soundbar range, they also left their premium compact hi-fi components to die as well. They produce a nice flagship direct drive turntable though. But that's it really.

Harman is buying Bowers & Wilkins, Marantz and Denon as Masimo sells its consumer audio business

The $350m transaction is expected to close by the end of the year

www.whathifi.com

Yeah I saw that, I hope the Harman's two dimensional sound quality doesn't transcend to these established brands.

There's also HEOS and Polk and few others added to the list from the Masimo acquisition. Denon has a strong presence in AV, I do think they will scale down Denon's scope of influence.

It makes sense to position Denon where the sales are buoyant. There is an overlap in the HiFi segments, Denon and Marantz completing with each other in virtually every segment, good thing bad thing? Maybe a good thing, the competition is competing against two from the same stable.

Not likely to happen, I think, better Samsung the parent company, dissolve Harman and put the investment in those established brands.

 

[nopiano]

I think one can speculate which brands might disappear, but ironically customers like a choice even if/when they invariably choose the same thing. These days, sophisticated production means high levels of customisation is possible, but some of it is excessive to me, e.g. JBL branded amps and turntables, when they are a speaker company.

I love the Denon and Marantz heritages and would it be tragic to lose them.

 

[daytona600]

Bowers & Wilkins, Denon , Marantz, Polk Audio, Definitive Technology, Classé, HEOS , Boston Acoustics Arcam, AKG, JBL, Mark Levinson and Revel. Harman Kardon, Infinity, Lexicon, and Revel

Samsung says it plans to add Masimo's brands to strengthen its global leading position in the consumer audio market, which is expected to grow from $60.8bn this year to $70bn in 2029.

 

[manicm]

$350 million does not seem a lot for that bundle of brands WHF mentions. Considering that Harman was bought by Samsung for $8bn. There again, the fit for Masimo seemed a bit odd.

I'm not sure that Denon, Marantz and Arcam will all survive as brands, as they all play in a similar field . There will also be a plethora of speaker manufacturers under the Samsung wing.

It will be interesting to see if Harman/Samsung can do anything with HEOS. It feels as though integration between streaming devices could be better developed. Especially since they also own Roon.

HEOS has evolved very well now. It now supports Tidal Connect, and an increasing number of Marantz and a few Denon products are now Roon Ready.

I use it and it's great. The only thing missing is Qobuz support that some miss, but apparently they're working on that.

 

[DCarmi]

HEOS has evolved very well now. It now supports Tidal Connect, and an increasing number of Marantz and a few Denon products are now Roon Ready.

I was thinking that HEOS might break free of its built-in and fairly closed shop approach and become more ubiquitous like e.g. Chromecast. However, that may not suit a Harman/Samsung walled-garden model or be an attractive licencing cash-cow.

 

[Gray]

$350 million does not seem a lot for that bundle of brands WHF mentions.

Paid in cash apparently too (loose change)

 

[Al ears]

HEOS has evolved very well now. It now supports Tidal Connect, and an increasing number of Marantz and a few Denon products are now Roon Ready.

I use it and it's great. The only thing missing is Qobuz support that some miss, but apparently they're working on that.

If they don't include Qobuz they are certainly missing a trick....

 

[Al ears]

Paid in cash apparently too (loose change)

They must have big trouser pockets.... 🙂

 

[ToppingSMSL]

$350 million does not seem a lot for that bundle of brands WHF mentions. Considering that Harman was bought by Samsung for $8bn. There again, the fit for Masimo seemed a bit odd.

I'm not sure that Denon, Marantz and Arcam will all survive as brands, as they all play in a similar field . There will also be a plethora of speaker manufacturers under the Samsung wing.

It will be interesting to see if Harman/Samsung can do anything with HEOS. It feels as though integration between streaming devices could be better developed. Especially since they also own Roon.

Seems quite a lot to me. Was there not a company that payed £10bn for a batch of brands a few years back and the guy in charge ended up getting sacked a few years later.

 

[Steve983]

I doubt that such figures are available but I would imagine sales of hi fi separates these days are pitifully low.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

I doubt that such figures are available but I would imagine sales of hi fi separates these days are pitifully low.

Most people probably buy desktop stuff now from Chinese companies like SMSL, Topping, 3e Audio, Fosi Audio. They've stolen a large portion of the market.

At the premium end there's Holo Audio, Gustard. Companies like NAD, Denon and Marantz are left picking over the leftovers.

Harmon are a decent company though, they've done some great headphone research under the stewardship of Sean Olive.

 

[manicm]

I was thinking that HEOS might break free of its built-in and fairly closed shop approach and become more ubiquitous like e.g. Chromecast. However, that may not suit a Harman/Samsung walled-garden model or be an attractive licencing cash-cow.

A dedicated app by default is closed wall. Sonos, WiiM, Bluesound - they're all closed wall. Chromecast doesn't really support hi-res, though I may be mistaken.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

A dedicated app by default is closed wall. Sonos, WiiM, Bluesound - they're all closed wall. Chromecast doesn't really support hi-res, though I may be mistaken.

I've been using two Chromecast Audio for 8 years. They do optical out to a DAC and so are capable of 24 bit 96kHz.

 

[Al ears]

A dedicated app by default is closed wall. Sonos, WiiM, Bluesound - they're all closed wall. Chromecast doesn't really support hi-res, though I may be mistaken.

I don't think it's apps they are concerned about but moving equipment is....

 

[davidf]

It'll be interesting to see how Herman take these brands forward - the market for some of these brands has been screwed for a while now, and B&W was following them.

 

[jjbomber]

Seems quite a lot to me. Was there not a company that payed £10bn for a batch of brands a few years back and the guy in charge ended up getting sacked a few years later.

It's in the article. ''Only three years ago, US medical company Masimo acquired those eight audio brands from high-end audio business Sound United for $1.025bn, although for over a year the writing was on the wall that it was looking to sell them on.''

 

[matthewpianist]

Denon and Marantz have both become lazy and uninspiring overall, and in many cases there's better competition at similar price points. B&W are following in the same direction. I think the entry-level mainstream consumer market is pretty much decimated, as in a lot of specialist industries, and this is probably why Marantz hasn't refreshed the 6000-seres and why Denon hasn't furthered their 600-series. Yamaha is a similar case in general. There is also what we've seen happen to Onkyo/Pioneer over recent years.

Consolidation of this type is similar to what's been happening in the motor industry for a long time, with VW Group and Stellantis owning a huge portion of 'traditional' brands between them - and I anticipate we will see some brands disappear there, particularly as dealerships have begun to dual brand familiar names with Chinese ones. It's impossible to predict accurately, but I do wonder whether Harman will be able to justify so many brands covering the same turf.

Time will tell.

 

[Jasonovich]

I believe Harman International has absorbed all of Sound United from Masimo — the healthcare giant.

Part of me thinks, they'll be better placed under the Samsung umbrella, courtesy of Harmon, after all, Massimo is a medical company, what do they know about HiFi?
Part of me thinks, Samsung will exploit the pedigree name for car entertainment systems.

B&W fitted car speakers, Denon AV SatNav, HeoS connectivity, bespoke and fitted in your top of the range Land Rover or Bentley to your own specification. Samsung might see this as an opportunity to profit on brand and that would be a shame.

If the Chinese had acquired Sound United, I think they would have treated the name with more reverence.

Remember MG, the epitome of the British motor industry, left to die, until the Chinese came in and made a half decent job of it.

Time will tell.

 

[matthewpianist]

IAG have certainly done a decent job with the British brands they own. Not perfect, but what is? And Audiolab in particular is something of a force to be reckoned with (even if I personally don't like some of their products).