What with the demise of Hi-Fi high street shops and dedicated listening rooms, in say John Lewis, and with the young generation into streaming and using portable one speaker systems is traditional Hi-Fi under threat? Certainly big names are bringing out cheaper carnations of existing models to reverse the slide in sales. The young like one-box systems to stream from Spotify without the inconvenience of trailing speaker leads and separate boxes and plugs. My son thinks I am a dinosaur!
Is HiFi becoming cheaper
- Thread starter Edbo2
- Start date
Cheap as chips. Literally.
Well, some have anyway. Whereas streamers did cost at least a few hundred quid a few years ago you can now pick one up for the cost of a meal.
Other than that, quality still costs money usually.
Well, some have anyway. Whereas streamers did cost at least a few hundred quid a few years ago you can now pick one up for the cost of a meal.
Other than that, quality still costs money usually.
I strongly believe that quality hifi is becoming more expensive, year after year. But the plastic hifi stuff made abroad is really incredibly cheap.
Blacksabbath25
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I think some Hifi is a bit cheaper then it was but some of the top brands are still the same money and maybe a bit more expensive but the silly thing is TVs which I know are not Hifi but they are really cheap I can go and buy a 50'' Sony led for £490 that is cheap that's a lot of tv for that money
I think that with some of the budget stuff, you do seem to be getting quite a bit for your money. So value is quite good these days, you know the sort of 'Designed in England, made in China' things.
Tell Edbo2 junior that, if you're a dinosaur, that makes him at least half-dino.
Tell Edbo2 junior that, if you're a dinosaur, that makes him at least half-dino.
Retail Price Maintenance was made illegal 40 years ago but hi-fi is not discounted so prices are the same from all outlets. Suppliers have a hold and will not supply outlets who offer discounts.
Native_bon
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To be honest most so called real hifi does sound tiny to me. Very rarely do I hear systems that sound rich & natural in mids & high frequencies. 95% of the time just sounds thin & hard. Also too much bass.Edbo2 said:
Native_bon
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Thats a real shame. Cause it's got to a piont now where we have no say in anything. Sorry to say but am one of those who buy online now & try at home, at least I know I got the 14days to return if not ideal for me. Also you get better price match online. Win win I say.Edbo2 said:
Mass produced electronics are extraordinarily cheap. Back when I followed this stuff, there was a firm that produced a 'price per transistor' graph each year. As the chip densities got higher and higher, the line tended toward zero. For all intents and purposes, transistors are now free. £25 will get you a Raspberry Pi with well over 250 million transistors. Thats 0.0000001p per transistor.
Electronics made in volume benefit from economies of scale. A Sonos Play 1 has a streamer, digital signal processor, multiple DACS, multiple amplifiers and multiple speakers for £170 - and Sonos aren't known for their budget pricing.
What is expensive are low volume, niche products. Sell 1,000,000 of something and the development costs are (relatively) negligable. Sell 1000 and those months of expensive development time have to spread out over a much smaller group.
My own view is that niche players will shrink and close or be forced to consolidate - that is certainly seems to be what is happening in the industry. 'High end' will get more expensive, and the hobby as we know it will eventually wither away (from my ageing vantage point, it is already on its last legs)
Electronics made in volume benefit from economies of scale. A Sonos Play 1 has a streamer, digital signal processor, multiple DACS, multiple amplifiers and multiple speakers for £170 - and Sonos aren't known for their budget pricing.
What is expensive are low volume, niche products. Sell 1,000,000 of something and the development costs are (relatively) negligable. Sell 1000 and those months of expensive development time have to spread out over a much smaller group.
My own view is that niche players will shrink and close or be forced to consolidate - that is certainly seems to be what is happening in the industry. 'High end' will get more expensive, and the hobby as we know it will eventually wither away (from my ageing vantage point, it is already on its last legs)
Native_bon said:
Lots of builders like to call them "real hifi". But aren't even close to a fidel reproduction.
Andrew17321
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- Nov 12, 2008
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Yes, HiFi is becoming cheaper, and less complicated.
I have replaced my Arcam amp, Spendor floorstanders, DAC and lots of wires which I bought about twelve years ago with a couple of Devialet Phantoms and a Dialog (and no wires). The sound quality of my new system is unbelievably better, and its cost (~ £3000) is less than half that of my 12 year old system when inflation is taken into account. No fancy wires needed!
At the other end of the scale, a Chromecast Audio can be bought for £15. Pretty high quality streaming which can compete well with legacy streamers costing 20 times as much.
Furthermore, I use Qobuz for CD steaming at the cost of about one CD per month. So access to CD quality music is also cheaper for me.
However, if you wish to stick to traditional three box systems from conventional quality manufacturers, you may well find that HiFi has become dearer. I did consider upgrading my Arcam amplifier before I heard a pair of Phantoms.
I have replaced my Arcam amp, Spendor floorstanders, DAC and lots of wires which I bought about twelve years ago with a couple of Devialet Phantoms and a Dialog (and no wires). The sound quality of my new system is unbelievably better, and its cost (~ £3000) is less than half that of my 12 year old system when inflation is taken into account. No fancy wires needed!
At the other end of the scale, a Chromecast Audio can be bought for £15. Pretty high quality streaming which can compete well with legacy streamers costing 20 times as much.
Furthermore, I use Qobuz for CD steaming at the cost of about one CD per month. So access to CD quality music is also cheaper for me.
However, if you wish to stick to traditional three box systems from conventional quality manufacturers, you may well find that HiFi has become dearer. I did consider upgrading my Arcam amplifier before I heard a pair of Phantoms.
Edbo2 said:
The orignal point of Hi Fi was to get as close as possible to live music hence "The closest approach to the original sound." as Quad put it (IIRC). Now many people want a "warm" sound. Some of my music is bass-light & fatiguing - I blame that on certain recordings rather than my system.
I have my speakers well out from my walls not because I don't like bass (quite the opposite) but because I hate overblown bass that sets off room modes which then overhangs into the mid range. What gets me is many of your son's age buying crap headphones because they are a fashion item & hardly cheap for the quality. Then again girls will pay extra to buy jeans with rips below the knees. Sometimes I'm glad I'm an old fart!
I'm into streaming via Apple Music & listen to loads of new music through my decent stereo at home & through my iPhone with proper over-ear 'phones when out or on holiday.
As for the cost of Hi Fi, I'll belief it has got cheaper (better), especially speakers. There's probably more stuff at really silly prices than say 30yrs ago but that's neither here nor there for most of us.
Hifi is getting cheaper, or rather it's getting better value for money in a lot of cases. The functionality you can get in an AV amp for example is quite amazing for the price. The flipside is that stuff is becoming less serviceable and as a result less economic to repair, disposable even. If I were to invest serious money into hifi it would be in something that has good service and aftersales backup, or something that could be repaired many years on from now, like a valve amp.
I think you get better value for money than ever at the budget end of the spectrum.
You can also do a lot for very little money if you are prepared to consider components other than the traditional hifi separates, particularly if you are prepared to sacrifice aesthetics in many cases and go the pro audio route.
You can also do a lot for very little money if you are prepared to consider components other than the traditional hifi separates, particularly if you are prepared to sacrifice aesthetics in many cases and go the pro audio route.
Andrew17321
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tino said:
In the last 30 years I have only had two pieces of electronic equipment fail: a Sony TV that was 2 years old and a Humax satellite box that was 5 years old. Everything else just goes on and on. I wish my iPad 2 would fail so that I could justify buying an iPad pro!
Andrew17321 said:
Not sure what that says. My Humax is also playing up and its about 5 years old, my Sony tv is about 4 years old and getting very slow in changing channels, my previous Sony TV lasted 25 years. My Marantz 63SE is still working. Arcam amp. 24 years old still works fine. 40 year old Technics turntable has started to play up but never been serviced. Went to buy a BD player, 2 did not work from the start, did not buy in the end. I agree its amore disposable market now. But tvs are cheap, 32inch Sony for about £200.
Al ears said:
Depends on what you mean by good. The goodness threshold in terms of how much you pay for good quality kit I think has dropped, it's easier to access a more than acceptable quality of hifi with high quality electronics, materials and finish. I personally don't see the need to go beyond the £1K barrier for the costliest item in my hifi chain, but I can see where spending £10K on some cutting edge design might be considered good value. Conversely there are some very expensive but pretty boutique hifi boxes with mostly thin air inside and some off the shelf electronics modules which have been bought in and "tuned", and which are the quite poor vaue IMHO.
Al ears
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tino said:
You might be right. However, quality being what it is, is as ever, going to cost. Everyday products labelled as 'hifi' can obviously be found at a lower price. Cheaper? No, I don't think do. Just look at some classic speakers.
The B&W 800 series is a good example. Always aspired to have a pair of 805s in the small room. A few years back they were around JPY280,000 (metal tweeter). Then the diamond tweeter came along: JPY600,000. Now with the continuum driver the list price is about JPY930,000.
Plebs like me are finding it hard to keep up with hikes like that. Naturally there are going to be sound causes for it - R&D spending, diminshing scale economies etc. but it is disenchanting when you see your goals receding into the distance.
Plebs like me are finding it hard to keep up with hikes like that. Naturally there are going to be sound causes for it - R&D spending, diminshing scale economies etc. but it is disenchanting when you see your goals receding into the distance.
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