I dont know if Disney make a big thing of DV and the review masses say its better I think it will be the other way around
bigboss
Moderator
Though again I'd argue this is less of a classic format war because HDR and DV are built around the same core, and therefore interoperable.
It doesn't really matter which technology distribution companies align with, because consumers can still play all of the content.
It's a bit like the active-passive 3-D television format war. While we might prefer one approach, we don't have to worry about buying hardware that'll become rapidly obsolete.
And I still think differences between HDR and DV will be at most subtle in terms of viewer experience.
It doesn't really matter which technology distribution companies align with, because consumers can still play all of the content.
It's a bit like the active-passive 3-D television format war. While we might prefer one approach, we don't have to worry about buying hardware that'll become rapidly obsolete.
And I still think differences between HDR and DV will be at most subtle in terms of viewer experience.
Its certainly not a format war just a case of whats going to give the best HDR performance on OLED in the future.
There is no future proofing right now but this is just 1 more variable that you may be able to tick off if you buy now
There is no future proofing right now but this is just 1 more variable that you may be able to tick off if you buy now
ellisdj said:
Which is fair enough. I don't think we disagree on much at all.
I perhaps place less emphasis on HDR performance at this precise moment (and in the coming few years).
I also accept that individual priorities differ.
Series1boy said:
For what it's worth, I still have my calibrated Pana VT65, and I'm not looking to replace it in the immediate future.
I dont know how much UHD content you guys have seen, I have seen a fair bit but not seen hardly any with HDR as I dont have the kit
However I have seen the potential in this new format, it is something really special and a big jump on from BD so having bases covered in terms of spec at this stage is a very big thing. Much bigger than it ever was with HD content because the standards had been the same for years previous but atm they are still shifting towards a target very far off.
I am very interested in it - UHD is amazing as a format
However I have seen the potential in this new format, it is something really special and a big jump on from BD so having bases covered in terms of spec at this stage is a very big thing. Much bigger than it ever was with HD content because the standards had been the same for years previous but atm they are still shifting towards a target very far off.
I am very interested in it - UHD is amazing as a format
@EllisDJ
I'm not dismissing the enhancements 4k and HDR can bring, it's the lack of worthwhile software that's the problem.
I just browsed the list of 4k BDs on Blu-ray.com and couldn't identify a single release I'd be itching to own.
Many titles are really 2k upscales plus HDR, which offers advantages, but can also look artificial and show up CGI's limitations, or problems with composite effects.
I also agree that screen size is a factor. If using a projector you'll get most benefit from the higher resolution, but any advantage is at least somewhat offset by the technology's limited dynamic range.
The resolution uptick offers fewer benefits on television screens, while all technologies have issues properly displaying high dynamic range content, as already discussed.
In other words, 4k HDR is certainly the future, but investing heavily in these standards feels at the moment premature.
I'm not dismissing the enhancements 4k and HDR can bring, it's the lack of worthwhile software that's the problem.
I just browsed the list of 4k BDs on Blu-ray.com and couldn't identify a single release I'd be itching to own.
Many titles are really 2k upscales plus HDR, which offers advantages, but can also look artificial and show up CGI's limitations, or problems with composite effects.
I also agree that screen size is a factor. If using a projector you'll get most benefit from the higher resolution, but any advantage is at least somewhat offset by the technology's limited dynamic range.
The resolution uptick offers fewer benefits on television screens, while all technologies have issues properly displaying high dynamic range content, as already discussed.
In other words, 4k HDR is certainly the future, but investing heavily in these standards feels at the moment premature.
I presume by the number of nits, you mean the difference between the darkest (0 nits) and brightest (4K nits - or more correctly 4,000 cd/m^2) which is about the same order of magnitude brightness as a full moon on a clear night. FWIW 12k nits is like looking at a flourescent bulb close up. Not recommended.
HOWEVER, I don't care how many nits it's been mastered in, if it's a crap film, it's a crap film.
Plenty of really excellent films that have lasted the test of time were made in black and white, remember.
While people still seek out old Bogart and Bacall movies made in B&W, I wonder if our grandkids will be seeking out one of the gazillion extremely dire CGI "masterpeices" plagueing us now in fifty or sixty years time. I very much doubt it. Superhero vs Super-baddie CGI movies are the equivalent of the comics they're based on. Read once,keep if you're that sort of anorak, discard with the trash if not.
But then the role of CGI in movies (I personally think there's too much of it and I am beginning to hate it as a result, FWIW) isn't really what this thread is about, is it?
HOWEVER, I don't care how many nits it's been mastered in, if it's a crap film, it's a crap film.
Plenty of really excellent films that have lasted the test of time were made in black and white, remember.
While people still seek out old Bogart and Bacall movies made in B&W, I wonder if our grandkids will be seeking out one of the gazillion extremely dire CGI "masterpeices" plagueing us now in fifty or sixty years time. I very much doubt it. Superhero vs Super-baddie CGI movies are the equivalent of the comics they're based on. Read once,keep if you're that sort of anorak, discard with the trash if not.
But then the role of CGI in movies (I personally think there's too much of it and I am beginning to hate it as a result, FWIW) isn't really what this thread is about, is it?
ellisdj said:
I have had a taste of 4k on Netflix, amazon prime and have a few 4k BDs through my Xbox one. To be honest, I've not seen much improvement if any but this is on an a 55" LG LCD in our games room and it's not calibrated. When I compare with my calibrated VT, this beats the LCD lg with the blacks and shadow detail and image is not much different comparing to Netflix, although either 1080p or 4k is native via this service, so not a good basis to compare..
If I purchase a high end OLED and had It calibrated I would maybe see a big difference but with all the new standards such as DV and nits etc etc, then I'll wait another year. I'm not looking for a future proofed Tv, because this will never happen but something that has all the tags on so to speak...
I am excited about 4k, just not sure when to press the button and minimal good content...
So, when I had my VT calibrated, I had 2 ISF settings; day and night. The night setting makes the picture darker but in a pitch black room, it looks mint!
why are we bothered about how many Nits a TV has? Surely you can't watch a Tv that is too bright and I appreciate is has a lot to do with HDR, but why?
why are we bothered about how many Nits a TV has? Surely you can't watch a Tv that is too bright and I appreciate is has a lot to do with HDR, but why?
Regarding the number of nits content is mastered at and technologies can reproduce:
It's not about global brighthess (the whole screen displaying thousands of nits, which would be intolerable to watch), but specular highlights (locally increased brightness, e.g. spots of sunlight reflected on the ocean).
Right now all televisions have issues with dynamic range, either through ABL and clipping (OLED), or limited native contrast and a raised black floor (LCD/LED).
And I don't see these problems being resolved over the next five years, which is why I'm more enthusiastic about HDR's prospects than its current implementations.
It's not about global brighthess (the whole screen displaying thousands of nits, which would be intolerable to watch), but specular highlights (locally increased brightness, e.g. spots of sunlight reflected on the ocean).
Right now all televisions have issues with dynamic range, either through ABL and clipping (OLED), or limited native contrast and a raised black floor (LCD/LED).
And I don't see these problems being resolved over the next five years, which is why I'm more enthusiastic about HDR's prospects than its current implementations.
bigboss
Moderator
Interesting comment about Despicable Me:gel said:
If you’re lucky enough to already own a suitable combination of kit, though, trust us: you’ll want to buy both Despicable Me 4K Blu-rays as a matter of urgency. The impact of Dolby Vision on the visuals of both movies has to be seen to be believed.
Take color, for instance. With our Oppo 203 and LG OLED55C7 combination, the Dolby Vision Despicable Me movies display an unprecedented array of tones and tonal subtleties. Everything from the animated skin tones to background walls and locations contains subtle variations and accuracies of color you just don’t get in HDR10 – a comparison verified by playing the discs’ HDR10 ‘core’ video through the Panasonic UB900 Ultra HD Blu-ray player onto the OLED55C7.
This helps pictures instantly look more detailed and refined, despite the fact that Dolby Vision isn’t capable of actually adding more pixels to the 4K source pictures.
The Dolby Vision transfer doesn’t just portray more subtle colors than the HDR10 transfer either. Some colors also look slightly different in hue and tone; and invariably our impression was that the DV versions were the definitive, accurate ones.
The article Gel linked to certainly speaks favourably of DV.
There are caveats to the observations made, notably that different manufacturers employ different HDR algorithms (Panasonic in concert with Hollywoood technicians); and that other manufacturers are working to institute new HDR standards.
If anything these approaches further muddle an already complicated situation, and that's before we consider the relative lack of DV titles. How many times can anyone watch Despicable Me?
I accept that buying "DV-ready" hardware covers more bases, though I still don't think this should form the cornerstone of any purchasing decision right now.
There are caveats to the observations made, notably that different manufacturers employ different HDR algorithms (Panasonic in concert with Hollywoood technicians); and that other manufacturers are working to institute new HDR standards.
If anything these approaches further muddle an already complicated situation, and that's before we consider the relative lack of DV titles. How many times can anyone watch Despicable Me?
I accept that buying "DV-ready" hardware covers more bases, though I still don't think this should form the cornerstone of any purchasing decision right now.
Just thinking that my Denon X6200 won't pass through DV when I eventually purchase a new TV, is this correct? If it doesn't, then worse case scanario is to run 2 hdmi cables from a compatible player..
Series1boy said:
Mines the Denon AVR-X2200W and i know mine won't pass dolby vision, it doesn't really bother me as i am not set up for dolby vision anyway.
Just found this link and the 7200 will pass through DV which pisses me right off because my 6200 is a newer model than this. The 7200 was out a year or 2 before mine! Only the 6300 and similar 3 models will pass through with a firmware update!
http://denon-uk.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4723/~/hdr-format-compatibility
http://denon-uk.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4723/~/hdr-format-compatibility
bigboss
Moderator
The 7200 was launched in 2015 and the 6200 in 2016.
I get the corporate greed thing, but why just the 7200 to receive a firmware update for DV but not the newer model 6200? What's different inside apart from the number of amps and power?
I get the corporate greed thing, but why just the 7200 to receive a firmware update for DV but not the newer model 6200? What's different inside apart from the number of amps and power?
Some more info here re DV on current AVRs.. looks like the older models have the hardware built in but its down to the manufactures to create an update:
https://www.avforums.com/threads/dolby-vision-will-it-pass.2076630/
https://www.avforums.com/threads/dolby-vision-will-it-pass.2076630/
bigboss
Moderator
Looks like an extra hdmi cable for me then as no need to upgrade because it has all the surround formats, for now that is....
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