Integrated Amplifier with a Mono switch

[Tannoyed]

I really don't see why this is regarded as a problem. Take a look at the NAD3020 circuit diagram, a widely respected amp I think you would agree, and all that they do is short the top end of each volume control pot together using a switch. The vol pots are fed via 1k resistors from each of the inputs, except of course the phono input where there is a pre-amp with RIAA correction. The outputs of the preamps both go to the top of the vol controls when switched in so the obvious solution is to fit a switch (single pole will do) so that the two pots may be connected together for mono operation. It would be so easy for designers to included this feature in the product and the cost of doing so is minimal so I don't understand why it is not universally available.

If you use a seperate pre-amp it is even easier but make sure that any shorting link is applied via say, a 1k resistor, so that the preamp output is not affected by loading. The output will probably have significant impedance designed in so a simple short may be all that is needed but a 1k resistor would be a reasonable choice and would cause little attenuation.

Obviously not everyone will be able to do this but I am sure that there is a repair shop somewhere that could do it for you.

Just a thought.

 

[Happy_Listner]

Hi everyone,

It's too hard to find a modern integrated amp with a mono switch. At least in my price range. So I decided yesterday and bought a Rega Elex-R. I guess I'll have to buy a Mono cartidge now if I want to listen to those Beatles Mono LP's in all of their glory.

On that note, I do find it odd that Rega out of all audio brands don't include a Mono siwtch on their amps. You would think with thier turntable history that they would.

So Rega if you are reading this please include one on your future amps.

 

[Al ears]

Hi everyone,

It's too hard to find a modern integrated amp with a mono switch. At least in my price range. So I decided yesterday and bought a Rega Elex-R. I guess I'll have to buy a Mono cartidge now if I want to listen to those Beatles Mono LP's in all of their glory.

On that note, I do find it odd that Rega out of all audio brands don't include a Mono siwtch on their amps. You would think with thier turntable history that they would.

So Rega if you are reading this please include one on your future amps.

Enjoy your new amp. Unfortunately I think your request for a mono switch is likely to fall on deaf ears. The need for one is so rare they are unlikely to ad extra costs to their products just to fit one. The sales of mono LPs is very, very small these days and the people who do have a lot of mono recordings will have already invested in a mono cartridge and / or a phono preamp with mono switch. I feel they are unlikely to change their manufacturing process just to cater for a very small minority of people that want one.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Sometimes we take this hobby too far.

If the album is recorded in mono it is still two sided i.e the information is the same via both channels hence the image between your speakers is centred. Distance between speakers dictates the width of the mono image.

It'll make no difference to what you'll hear if driven in 'mono'. (a stereo amp simply mixes everything together)

You can also try unplugging one speaker.

This is one of the few times I'll say don't be drawn in by the hype.

 

[davedotco]

Sometimes we take this hobby too far.

If the album is recorded in mono it is still two sided i.e the information is the same via both channels hence the image between your speakers is centred. Distance between speakers dictates the width of the mono image.

It'll make no difference to what you'll hear if driven in 'mono'. (a stereo amp simply mixes everything together)

You can also try unplugging one speaker.

This is one of the few times I'll say don't be drawn in by the hype.

Even assuming that your arm and cartridge are perfectly set up it is unlikely that the output of both channels will be identical, in stereo the information is different so it is not a problem, in mono where the two channels are supposed to be the same there can be audible issues.

That said, we are getting a bit pedantic here, A well set up player playing in stereo will probably sound fine.

 

[Al ears]

Spam blocked when trying to quote chebbys reply.

The cartridge I was referring to was the 2M Mono rather than Ortofon's moneygrabbing 2M mono SE. The 2M mono is available online for £240.

It would appear, after reading an article in HiFi World that the information I gave regards the 2M Mono may not be correct.

Until clarified I would no longer suggest that this model is all you require.

Due to the way the 'new' mono recordings are cut it is advised that you do not attempt to play them with cartridges that were designed specifically for old mono LPs. This would suggest that, to be on the safe side you would need the SE version of this cartridge.

A crazy situation I know but it now means if you have a large collection of 'new' and 'old' mono recordings you are going to need two different mono cartridges.......... Me, I think I'll stick to mono SACDs for now

 

[Happy_Listner]

Hey Al,

Yeah, I am not even sure what I am going to do now. I still have the Beatles Mono Set fresh in the box with the plastic on. I am considering returning it. I am not going to spend more money on the mono cartridge, almost double for the Ortofon 2MSE, than this box set cost me. Plus, I only have a Chet Baker and Miles Davis LP in Mono, so not enough mono recordings in my collection to justify it.

I have no mono switch and I don't really want to replace the cartridge all of the time anyways. I can still play the records just fine with my RP40 cartridge and I am sure they will sound OK but It will irk me that I am not getting the best out of them that I could. The whole point of this new 2014 Beatles Box Set was to get the true mono analogue to analogue recording experience and to get somthing that was better than thier last box set was. Without the proper set up it might be pointless.

 

[chebby]

Due to the way the 'new' mono recordings are cut it is advised that you do not attempt to play them with cartridges that were designed specifically for old mono LPs. This would suggest that, to be on the safe side you would need the SE version of this cartridge.

The same reason I removed my info about Nagaoka mono stylii here.

 

[Al ears]

Due to the way the 'new' mono recordings are cut it is advised that you do not attempt to play them with cartridges that were designed specifically for old mono LPs. This would suggest that, to be on the safe side you would need the SE version of this cartridge.

The same reason I removed my info about Nagaoka mono stylii here.

Well done and thanks for that chebby. Must have missed your post. I was unaware (now hopefully re-educated) that there was such a difference in cutting techniques. I find it hard to believe they would cut a batch of LPs for which (until Ortofon presented the SE) there was not actually a cartridge available to play them correctly.

I assume I have not missed the point completely. This Beatles box-set needs the Ortofon 2M SE mono cartridge to play them optimally ........... that's one hell of an expensive box set!

 

[davedotco]

Due to the way the 'new' mono recordings are cut it is advised that you do not attempt to play them with cartridges that were designed specifically for old mono LPs. This would suggest that, to be on the safe side you would need the SE version of this cartridge.

The same reason I removed my info about Nagaoka mono stylii here.

Well done and thanks for that chebby. Must have missed your post. I was unaware (now hopefully re-educated) that there was such a difference in cutting techniques. I find it hard to believe they would cut a batch of LPs for which (until Ortofon presented the SE) there was not actually a cartridge available to play them correctly.

I assume I have not missed the point completely. This Beatles box-set needs the Ortofon 2M SE mono cartridge to play them optimally ........... that's one hell of an expensive box set!

I really depends on what you mean by optimally.

They were cut with a stereo cutter, so in effect they are a stereo pressing with the same signal on both channels, strictly speaking that is not true mono and you may well be better off using a stereo cartridge anyway.

A stereo cartridge through a stereo amp will be fine in all but the most demanding applications where the difference between the cutting and playback characteristics on each channel may make a difference but really, with a well set up arm and cartridge this will be minimal.

 

[Al ears]

Due to the way the 'new' mono recordings are cut it is advised that you do not attempt to play them with cartridges that were designed specifically for old mono LPs. This would suggest that, to be on the safe side you would need the SE version of this cartridge.

The same reason I removed my info about Nagaoka mono stylii here.

Well done and thanks for that chebby. Must have missed your post. I was unaware (now hopefully re-educated) that there was such a difference in cutting techniques. I find it hard to believe they would cut a batch of LPs for which (until Ortofon presented the SE) there was not actually a cartridge available to play them correctly.

I assume I have not missed the point completely. This Beatles box-set needs the Ortofon 2M SE mono cartridge to play them optimally ........... that's one hell of an expensive box set!

I really depends on what you mean by optimally.

They were cut with a stereo cutter, so in effect they are a stereo pressing with the same signal on both channels, strictly speaking that is not true mono and you may well be better off using a stereo cartridge anyway.

A stereo cartridge through a stereo amp will be fine in all but the most demanding applications where the difference between the cutting and playback characteristics on each channel may make a difference but really, with a well set up arm and cartridge this will be minimal.

Point taken about the stereo cutter head. Was the similtaneous issue of the 2M SE mono cartridge by Ortofon a mere sales gimic in your view then dave? (Neumann VMS80 lathe with SX-74 cutter head).

 

[Thompsonuxb]

If they are not identical there is a fault with the amp or an issue with the source.

If there is an issue with phase (a test tone would confirm) it can be adjusted with speaker placement.

But a central image between your speakers is the aim regards mono playback.

In other words there is no logical reason to buy a mono amp or stylus/cartridge.

Playing back a mono recording in stereo will still be presented in mono.( like a black and white movie on a colour t.v.)

A single speaker set up is as close as you'll get to a pure mono system.

Sometimes we take this hobby too far.

If the album is recorded in mono it is still two sided i.e the information is the same via both channels hence the image between your speakers is centred. Distance between speakers dictates the width of the mono image.

It'll make no difference to what you'll hear if driven in 'mono'. (a stereo amp simply mixes everything together)

You can also try unplugging one speaker.

This is one of the few times I'll say don't be drawn in by the hype.

Even assuming that your arm and cartridge are perfectly set up it is unlikely that the output of both channels will be identical, in stereo the information is different so it is not a problem, in mono where the two channels are supposed to be the same there can be audible issues.

That said, we are getting a bit pedantic here, A well set up player playing in stereo will probably sound fine.

 

[davedotco]

Due to the way the 'new' mono recordings are cut it is advised that you do not attempt to play them with cartridges that were designed specifically for old mono LPs. This would suggest that, to be on the safe side you would need the SE version of this cartridge.

The same reason I removed my info about Nagaoka mono stylii here.

Well done and thanks for that chebby. Must have missed your post. I was unaware (now hopefully re-educated) that there was such a difference in cutting techniques. I find it hard to believe they would cut a batch of LPs for which (until Ortofon presented the SE) there was not actually a cartridge available to play them correctly.

I assume I have not missed the point completely. This Beatles box-set needs the Ortofon 2M SE mono cartridge to play them optimally ........... that's one hell of an expensive box set!

I really depends on what you mean by optimally.

They were cut with a stereo cutter, so in effect they are a stereo pressing with the same signal on both channels, strictly speaking that is not true mono and you may well be better off using a stereo cartridge anyway.

A stereo cartridge through a stereo amp will be fine in all but the most demanding applications where the difference between the cutting and playback characteristics on each channel may make a difference but really, with a well set up arm and cartridge this will be minimal.

Point taken about the stereo cutter head. Was the similtaneous issue of the 2M SE mono cartridge by Ortofon a mere sales gimic in your view then dave? (Neumann VMS80 lathe with SX-74 cutter head).

I think they saw it as a 'unique marketing opportunity'.......*music2*

 

[chebby]

FM tuners used to offer a mono switch too. Very useful with some of the more distant stations. (Even with a good rooftop aerial.)

 

[bluebrazil]

It would be very interesting to hear if this made any difference at all under these circumstances and very viable for a few quid.

 

[Happy_Listner]

I think since these records are cut into stereo using two identical mono channles that there could be some problems while listening. Some preamps and integrated amps have poor channel balance. I've see seen a few that can have one of the channels off by as much as +/- 1 DB because of poor volume tracking. Also, a speaker can be off by as much as +/- 1.5 DB from the other paired speaker. I think having the wrong amp/speakers/or comboination of two could result in audible differences between the two channles.

The point of Mono is to get a good centered image and also less background noise from the separation of these two channles. It is looking more and more to me that a Mono Switch is very important to getting the best out this new Beatles Box Set.

I am no expert on this matter, but from everything I learned so far that is my 2 cents worth. To Return this Box Set or not is somthing I will have to decide on before Monday.

 

[Jim-W]

Well it's your equipment...is it balanced or imbalanced? The only amps that I've heard that accentuate channel imbalance were the old Arcam amps and then only at very low levels. I don't think that that is an issue re mono/stereo focus of this thread.

The extraneous noise evident from a stereo cartridge playing an old mono record could be rectified by a mono switch/button but these are not old mono records that require the stylus to move in only one direction; these are, to all intents and purposes, stereo records with identical signals so there should be no unwanted noise. A mono cart or mono switch is not required to play these new records in my opinion.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Give it a few months and then auction the record.

You are making something out of nothing. Honestly if the record is recorded well it'll sound fine.

Considering the cost I'll take it you have a decent enough set to appreciate your purchase.

Enjoy........

I think since these records are cut into stereo using two identical mono channles that there could be some problems while listening. Some preamps and integrated amps have poor channel balance. I've see seen a few that can have one of the channels off by as much as +/- 1 DB because of poor volume tracking. Also, a speaker can be off by as much as +/- 1.5 DB from the other paired speaker. I think having the wrong amp/speakers/or comboination of two could result in audible differences between the two channles.

The point of Mono is to get a good centered image and also less background noise from the separation of these two channles. It is looking more and more to me that a Mono Switch is very important to getting the best out this new Beatles Box Set.?

I am no expert on this matter, but from everything I learned so far that is my 2 cents worth. To Return this Box Set or not is somthing I will have to decide on before Monday. 

 

[chebby]

Have you actually played these LPs yet?

If not, break the seal, brush the stylus and enjoy.

They will have been made with modern stereo cartridges in mind and I am sure they will sound fantastic.

What are your other options?

1: Buy an expensive mono cartridge and another turntable with a detachable headshell to swap around cartridges easily. (Otherwise you will be fitting and re-fitting / aligning different cartridges every time you play these mono LPs.)

2: Get an amp with a mono switch. (Either an old one or a new - expensive - one like the MacIntosh you mentioned.)

3: Or build an entire system around one mono box-set.

4: Remove the anxiety and the doubts and sell the LP boxset and buy the CD (mono) boxset for half the price.

Me? I just 'cherry picked' Get a Denon DL-103 cartridge for your LPs. It's not mono BUT it was originally designed in 1962 for use by the Japanese Broadcasting Corporation and has been in continual production, unchanged, ever since. It will play everything in your collection - whether modern or old - and i'll bet it'll sound great with those 1960s recordings.

 

[chebby]

duplicate

 

[Al ears]

Chebby has a very valid point here regards this cartridge. I used to run the modified version DL-103R and it was one of the best purchases I ever made in the cartridge department. Brilliant all rounder for the money, design longevity says it all really.

 

[Tzutzu]

I've had the Mono box for a week now. It is worth every penny (...well RON..) I spent. The box is neat, the covers are great, the quality of the paper used is excellent. I've listened each and every record the same day I got them. Flawless. Exquisite sound. No ups and downs, the LPs are flat, flat. I also have the stereo version on CDs and on some records. I would take the mono version any time of the day. It's true my amp has a mono switch, but there is not much of a difference in stereo. Keep them, enjoy them!

And you know what? Today is John's birthday.

 

[Happy_Listner]

Hi,

Thanks Tzutzu!

I will probably take your advice and keep it. Your Accuphase E-213 has a mono switch? That's nice. So you really don't hear much of a difference? Sounds fine without it?

 

[Tzutzu]

Tonight I took out Revolver. The stereo CD, the stereo LP and the mono LP. Listened and came to the same conclusion: the mono version is the best. Then I kept pushing the mono button on and off. The only (if any) difference was that in mono mode the image was a little better centered.

Ironic is that 30 years ago we were looking for stereo. If there wasn't a voice or a synthesizer sound travelling between the speakers it was boring.

We like coming back to the roots.

 

[chebby]

Ironic is that 30 years ago we were looking for stereo ...

I think you mean 50 years ago. Stereo was still fairly novel then and people were beginning to aspire to it. (Mostly in the form of stereo radiograms.)

30 years ago people were enjoying stereo LPs, stereo CDs, stereo FM radio, stereo cassette players, stereo music-centres, Walkmans and 'Ghetto blasters'. They didn't have to 'look for' stereo, it was everywhere. The novelty had worn off long before.