Sounds about right 'anything for the money' Edited by Mods - please do not use offensive language.
madhouse said:
Who are? The Chinese? The people who buy the products?
Are these the same [EDITED BY MODS] you refer to in your other thread?
:?
The_Lhc said:
If you were running a HiFi company, would rather import one tested and working product, or (say) 200 separate components, managing supply, stock and development with multiple suppliers half way around the world?
GSB said:
Obviously, it wouldn't improve the lives of the people living in poverty, but don't kid yourself that the workers are actually getting any kind of decent money, they are more or less slaves.
The air pollution in parts of China is unbelievably bad, and it's drifting over parts of Japan, so much so that it's affecting the Japanese people's health. These serious issues are swept under the carpet , as are numerous other issues to do with goods made in China. Do a little research, it might open your eyes to what's really happening over there?
China worries me hugely, why do you think they suddenly embraced capitalism? Why are they spending their huge wealth on buying land in other countries? Why are they buying into, and indeed trying to buy a lot of the world's natural resources? Why did they lend money so eagerly to the USA and Europe?
I have a theory, and IMO, this isn't going to end at all well for those of us that are in debt to China, and those of us that don't have our own natural resources.
GSB said:
And why should that bother me.
I would rather purchase quality British HI FI and help to protect British jobs and economy..................
I have watched the news reports in the past years and due to economic wealth, conditions are improving,not to our satisfaction,but improving neverthelesss.The poorest will always be left behind,but apparently there is a developing middle class with huge disposable income.Western companies are rubbing their hands together,salavating at the size and promise of this giant market.(doesn't sound like communism to me)
I also remember a report stating that British manafacturing of textile goods(yorkshire)were being relocated back here due to the increase in Chinese labour costs.
Yes they are burning too much fossel fuel,but what do we(the west)do?
Don't get to paranoid/woried BBB,i just think China want a taste and a big slice of the good life.... :cheers:
I also remember a report stating that British manafacturing of textile goods(yorkshire)were being relocated back here due to the increase in Chinese labour costs.
Yes they are burning too much fossel fuel,but what do we(the west)do?
Don't get to paranoid/woried BBB,i just think China want a taste and a big slice of the good life.... :cheers:
The Chinese have plenty of money - its government's choice whether or not to filter that down to the poor. Plenty of more needy people in poor countries that don't have the choice.
madhouse said:
Really looking forward to hearing your views on a wide range of issues without using either the b**** word or [EDITED BY MODS]. Yup! That's shut you up.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
It has happened in most industries sadly. We have lost our manufacturing capacity, even in areas where once we were towards the top internationally.
In my own industry (acoustic pianos), there was once a huge number of piano makers producing decent quality instruments in this country and we had all the skills necessary for a completely British made product. Whilst we never made the very best pianos in the world, brands like Broadwood, Chappell, Collard & Collard, Danemann, Welmar, and Knight produced some superb instruments at their respective price points and there were a whole load more producing perfectly decent pianos including names such as Bentley, Rogers, Hopkinson, Barratt & Robinson, Zender, Challen and many many others. In fact most piano dealers also had their own piano lines (Eg. Crane & Son as one example), made for them by British piano builders. Until 2009, we were still producing Kemble's excellent pianos in Milton Keynes, though they admittedly started making their best instruments when they began using Yamaha actions and know-how long before that.
Now we have virtually no piano building industry. The Austro-Germans, who have always made the finest pianos, continue to sit at the top of the tree (Bechstein, Bosendorfer, Schimmel, Grotrian-Steinweg, Steingraber und Sohne, Steinway (made in Hamburg), Bluthner etc.), with the Italian Fazioli brand being a major exception. The rest of the market is completely dominated by the Japanese makers Yamaha (including Kemble, now produced in Indonesia by Yamaha) and Kawai, with the very bottom end of the market being plugged by wholly Chinese designed and made instruments bearing a myryiad of otherwise defunct British and German sounding mass-market names such as Bentley, Ritmuller, Challen and so on.
Overall, due to modern materials, machining, and techniques as well as advancements in scale design and acoustic research, standards have risen across the market. Variability in manufacture is almost entirely dependent on supervision and control. When Yamaha produce their more affordable piano ranges in Indonesia, for example, they are so tightly in control of the processes that quality control can be assured. The same applies to Kawai. However, both make their better, more advanced ranges in Japan.
As a country we have pretty much completely dropped out of the game where the industry once employed huge numbers of people. It is a sad indictment of how we care for and nurture industry in the UK. Who knows, perhaps with rising costs in China there may be some chance of a small reverse. Certainly some of the western makers are already looking less towards China - Schimmel, for example, recently announced it was ceasing to produce its entry-level Chinese made May Berlin line partly because it is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain a good balance between quality control and costs. Now every piano they make will be wholly European in manufacture - most 100% German - and I wouldn't be surprised to see some other makers following suit over time. Whether anyone will reignite one of the old British names and build them completely in this country, who knows.
Getting back to hi-fi, there were some earlier comments about Wharfedale's quality. Sadly, I have to say the cabinet quality coming out of the IAG factory is pretty appalling on the more affordable models. As far back as the Diamond 9 series the cabinet covering had a tendency to bubble or come away very easily. On the Diamond 10 series the shiny metal surrounds around the drivers can start to come unstuck, and on the latest series the overall finishing is very poor from all the examples I have seen.
Again it is about control - Mordaunt-Short products always seem to be much better finished, as do Monitor Audio's Bronze series (which I believe are made in China) and Q Acoustics.
In my own industry (acoustic pianos), there was once a huge number of piano makers producing decent quality instruments in this country and we had all the skills necessary for a completely British made product. Whilst we never made the very best pianos in the world, brands like Broadwood, Chappell, Collard & Collard, Danemann, Welmar, and Knight produced some superb instruments at their respective price points and there were a whole load more producing perfectly decent pianos including names such as Bentley, Rogers, Hopkinson, Barratt & Robinson, Zender, Challen and many many others. In fact most piano dealers also had their own piano lines (Eg. Crane & Son as one example), made for them by British piano builders. Until 2009, we were still producing Kemble's excellent pianos in Milton Keynes, though they admittedly started making their best instruments when they began using Yamaha actions and know-how long before that.
Now we have virtually no piano building industry. The Austro-Germans, who have always made the finest pianos, continue to sit at the top of the tree (Bechstein, Bosendorfer, Schimmel, Grotrian-Steinweg, Steingraber und Sohne, Steinway (made in Hamburg), Bluthner etc.), with the Italian Fazioli brand being a major exception. The rest of the market is completely dominated by the Japanese makers Yamaha (including Kemble, now produced in Indonesia by Yamaha) and Kawai, with the very bottom end of the market being plugged by wholly Chinese designed and made instruments bearing a myryiad of otherwise defunct British and German sounding mass-market names such as Bentley, Ritmuller, Challen and so on.
Overall, due to modern materials, machining, and techniques as well as advancements in scale design and acoustic research, standards have risen across the market. Variability in manufacture is almost entirely dependent on supervision and control. When Yamaha produce their more affordable piano ranges in Indonesia, for example, they are so tightly in control of the processes that quality control can be assured. The same applies to Kawai. However, both make their better, more advanced ranges in Japan.
As a country we have pretty much completely dropped out of the game where the industry once employed huge numbers of people. It is a sad indictment of how we care for and nurture industry in the UK. Who knows, perhaps with rising costs in China there may be some chance of a small reverse. Certainly some of the western makers are already looking less towards China - Schimmel, for example, recently announced it was ceasing to produce its entry-level Chinese made May Berlin line partly because it is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain a good balance between quality control and costs. Now every piano they make will be wholly European in manufacture - most 100% German - and I wouldn't be surprised to see some other makers following suit over time. Whether anyone will reignite one of the old British names and build them completely in this country, who knows.
Getting back to hi-fi, there were some earlier comments about Wharfedale's quality. Sadly, I have to say the cabinet quality coming out of the IAG factory is pretty appalling on the more affordable models. As far back as the Diamond 9 series the cabinet covering had a tendency to bubble or come away very easily. On the Diamond 10 series the shiny metal surrounds around the drivers can start to come unstuck, and on the latest series the overall finishing is very poor from all the examples I have seen.
Again it is about control - Mordaunt-Short products always seem to be much better finished, as do Monitor Audio's Bronze series (which I believe are made in China) and Q Acoustics.
My MS Mezzos, made in China, have superb finish on a curved cabinet. One example but QC is everything. Hopefully the Wharfdales etc., will refuse poor quality cabs very soon.
Yes, the metal surround came unstuck on my wharfedale diamond 10.1s. The only thing that annoyed me about this was that they were designed to have a completely pointless disc of metal glued to their fronts, not that they were manufactured in the far east. That doesn't speak to me of a company that's focused on great sound quality.
In contrast my B&W CM8s - also made in China - are beautifully constructed.
In contrast my B&W CM8s - also made in China - are beautifully constructed.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Jame5 said:
Hi James
I've still got a pair of 10.4s that I can't use or sell because they look too scruffy with the surrounds coming away. Did you ever fix yours? If so, what adhesive would you recommend? They are very nice sounding speakers actually, but I agree - why add unecessary 'bling', especially if you are going to do it badly.
Sorry, I meant to say, I just used super glue. It worked but made a bit of a mess, so my top tip would be to lay the 10.4s on their backs before glueing, which I failed to do. The 10.1s sounded great, by the way. My point was just that the surrounds are unnecessary bling.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
I agree 100% with BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW. China is a totalitarian country with no freedom of speech. They have a poor human rights record, and a horrible foreign politics. They openly trade and colaberate with all the enemies of western countrys, like Zimbabwe, Northern Korea and Iran. They have governmental employed hackers trying to steal western tecnology, especially weapons tecnology. They deny this, of cause, but it was in the norwegian paper recently.
For these reasons and more, I dread china and avoid buying products made there whenever I can. As for hifi, I buy western made products. They are often more expensive, but to me it is worth it. Not just because of political reasons, but the quality is usually very good as well. And I belive it is easier for the chief engineer to let his personality shine through products made under his roof, rather than on the other side of the world. If I have to buy products from cheap labour countrys, I choose the ones who hold free elections. For example, most of Yamaha hifi is made in Indonesia.
Bottom line is we live in Countries where we have the privlege to think for our selves. Use your power as a consumer to support what is right.
For these reasons and more, I dread china and avoid buying products made there whenever I can. As for hifi, I buy western made products. They are often more expensive, but to me it is worth it. Not just because of political reasons, but the quality is usually very good as well. And I belive it is easier for the chief engineer to let his personality shine through products made under his roof, rather than on the other side of the world. If I have to buy products from cheap labour countrys, I choose the ones who hold free elections. For example, most of Yamaha hifi is made in Indonesia.
Bottom line is we live in Countries where we have the privlege to think for our selves. Use your power as a consumer to support what is right.
I read the sign behind the Krell S-300i: "Manufactured in China under ISO 9001 quality system."
I think it is correct, to customers, the Krell write this specification, as well as a sign of quality (not what other products carry this writing
I think it is correct, to customers, the Krell write this specification, as well as a sign of quality (not what other products carry this writing
BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
Capitalism is failing. America has around 20,000 homicides ea year.
Why don't you ask the Police their opinion (it should count the most considering that they have to deal with all this **** head on daily while you listen to rock 'n roll and speculate about anything and everything via txt messages)
Murders ea year in China? Probably three.
madhouse said:
Not quite: 14,748
madhouse said:
Not quite: 13,410.
(However, the relative populations means the USA murder rate is 4.8 per 100,000 people, while China's is 1 per 100,000)
Overdose
Well-known member
Andrew Everard said:
Wiki results? Edit: I was tempted too.
Possibly the rate for China is artifically low and this only shows official figures, as opposed to the real ones.
Overdose said:
Yup, from United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime 2010 figures
Overdose said:
Quite possibly, but then that just means the USA 20,000, China 3 figures would be even more wide of the mark.
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