integrated amplifier made in China

[chebby]

They are #### wherever they are made.

:rofl:

Our vacuum cleaner is British designed and manufactured. (In Chard in Somerset). And it is excellent.

 

[The_Lhc]

Where does he imply that. I thought he was asking. As I said Wharfdale quality seems to have gone right downhill since they were made in China.

Just out of curiosity, in what way has it gone downhill.

Users and reviewers here have reported bad finish on their latest speakers.

The latest ones yes, but Wharfedale Diamonds have been made in China for some time and there were no complaints about the earlier ones.

 

[chebby]

Where does he imply that. I thought he was asking. As I said Wharfdale quality seems to have gone right downhill since they were made in China.

Just out of curiosity, in what way has it gone downhill.

Users and reviewers here have reported bad finish on their latest speakers.

The latest ones yes, but Wharfedale Diamonds have been made in China for some time and there were no complaints about the earlier ones.

Isn't that what 'going downhill' implies?

 

[BigH]

Doing business in China is different from the UK and I'm sure there are a lot of setting up costs etc. |Here is one company that has moved back: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/businessclub/management-advice/10079388/UK-firms-are-coming-back-from-China-but-they-need-more-help.html

 

[Red Dragon]

Unfortunately, it is a sad reflection of our global economy that many products are now manufactured in China and Korea. The Hi-Fi industry in the UK has a long history of manufacturing abroad but 'fine tuning' components for the UK market (Marantz would be a prime example). Although sad in respect of the decline in the UK industry for specifically UK designed and built products, for many companies the costs are simply too prohibitive and those that choose to be completely 'home grown' are specialized and rather expensive.

In my opinion I would not be put off by the fact that a hi-fi product is built abroad, no more than if my car was was...but I do agree that it is one of the few industries that historically the UK specifically (and the USA & Europe in some cases for that matter) did very well and still does, in a more limited and niche market sector. I think the internal components and general standards have to be maintained and the fact that they are simply 'put together' abroad should not make a difference to the finished quality as long as the Named company has a thorough and consistantant QC and finishing programme. That's my soap-box opinion for the record anyway...

 

[The_Lhc]

I do agree with Sospri it does matter esp. in the UK where a lot of our industry has gone abroad. With the rising costs in China maybe some will come back?

No it won't come back it will be moved to the next cheapest labour.......African countries maybe.

Actually there are examples of some manufacturers bringing production back from China as it's now no cheaper to make stuff out there. I don't think any of them were hi-fi manufacturers though. Africa isn't geared up for that sort of scale of manufacturing for the most part. India is more likely, the workforce is still very cheap and not particularly organised in terms of unions, so you can get away with murder...

 

[BigH]

Where does he imply that. I thought he was asking. As I said Wharfdale quality seems to have gone right downhill since they were made in China.

Just out of curiosity, in what way has it gone downhill.

Poor finish of cabinets seems to be the main problem, I have read this in several reviews and buyers reports, there is one review in WHF.

Here is one review which cover the matter with 2 different speakers: http://www.whathifi.com/review/wharfedale-diamond-155

http://www.whathifi.com/review/wharfedale-diamond-155

 

[Electro]

Vietnam maybe ?

http://www.whathifi.com/blog/why-vietnam-is-the-new-china-for-the-global-electronics-giants

 

[eggontoast]

Actually there are examples of some manufacturers bringing production back from China as it's now no cheaper to make stuff out there. I don't think any of them were hi-fi manufacturers though. Africa isn't geared up for that sort of scale of manufacturing for the most part. India is more likely, the workforce is still very cheap and not particularly organised in terms of unions, so you can get away with murder...

The UK government could offer more incentives to get UK manufacture more appealing, but they don't seem interested in doing anything. If they could get more job variation back here they might be able to dig the country out of this big black hole it's in instead of just crossing their fingers and going la la la la and hoping it will all go away.

 

[Sospri]

Actually there are examples of some manufacturers bringing production back from China as it's now no cheaper to make stuff out there. I don't think any of them were hi-fi manufacturers though. Africa isn't geared up for that sort of scale of manufacturing for the most part. India is more likely, the workforce is still very cheap and not particularly organised in terms of unions, so you can get away with murder...

The UK government could offer more incentives to get UK manufacture more appealing, but they don't seem interested in doing anything. If they could get more job variation back here they might be able to dig the country out of this big black hole it's in instead of just crossing their fingers and going la la la la and hoping it will all go away.

Totally agree with that,

But I don't think thats occured to our Eton boys..............

 

[GSB]

I'd love to see hifi made in Britain;would also be interested to see the numbers who are willing to pay the extra cost becouse of the minimum wage,sickness pay,holidays and bank holidays aswell :rofl:

 

[BigH]

I'd love to see hifi made in Britain;would also be interested to see the numbers who are willing to pay the extra cost becouse of the minimum wage,sickness pay,holidays and bank holidays aswell :rofl:

Thats not always true, so Rega are more expensive than say Arcam? In fact I have not seen prices fall when they have moved to China.

 

[andyjm]

There are very few (if any?) component manufacturers left in the UK. So depending on your view of 'manufacturing', it is more likely to be a case of assembly in the UK. It makes much more sense to ship components a few miles down the road in Shenzhen to be assembled onto a board (also made in Shenzhen), than halfway round the world to the UK to be assembled. Cost is undeniably an issue, but so are the logistics invoved.

 

[matt49]

I also think it's wrong for British companies to obfuscate about where it's products are made by using terms like "Designed In England" (or similar). It's gutless and cynical.

If something is made in China then b####y say so! I have plenty of stuff that is made in China (Apple, Marantz) or S.Korea (Humax) and they have the honesty to label things properly. (Like my new iPad Mini where it clearly states on the box "Designed By Apple in California" and "Assembled in China".)

To be fair, some UK hi-fi companies do exactly what you're advocating. In the image below the left-hand unit, an MF, states 'Designed in England' and 'Made in Taiwan'.

 

[reginaldo]

That you know, Krell does a good quality control in China on the model s-300i?

 

[The_Lhc]

There are very few (if any?) component manufacturers left in the UK. So depending on your view of 'manufacturing', it is more likely to be a case of assembly in the UK. It makes much more sense to ship components a few miles down the road in Shenzhen to be assembled onto a board (also made in Shenzhen), than halfway round the world to the UK to be assembled.

What difference does it make if you then have to ship the finished products around the world anyway?

 

[Selby]

Yes its a shame that our much coveted hobby/interest is manifested in a product that is of Chinese Origin. One must also factor in the "perceived value" of the product as well. High end Japanese items come to mind here. Sometimes I think that the UK produced lines are a little wanting in some respect. Cyrus has been dragging its heels over the casework if you aske me - for the price that they expect.

And yes! I would pay a premium for UK manufactured goods. My Home cinema setup is Arcam FMJ (UK) and the dvd player is Sony. My Hi-Fi is a combination of Japanese (Denon), Chord Electronics, Arcam and Musical Fidelity. The MF looks good (A5 cd) but the internals look second rate. Probably a Sanyo fine tuned. Hope Im wrong, but thats the impression I get. It Sounds ok though, through the Arcam FMJ A33 Dac. speakers are MA PL100. Cables are VDH and AQ (USA made). I have to settle for what I have......

 

[Selby]

Yes its a shame that our much coveted hobby/interest is manifested in a product that is of Chinese Origin. One must also factor in the "perceived value" of the product as well. High end Japanese items come to mind here. Sometimes I think that the UK produced lines are a little wanting in some respect. Cyrus has been dragging its heels over the casework if you ask me - for the price that they expect.

And yes! I would pay a premium for UK manufactured goods. My Home cinema setup is Arcam FMJ (UK) and the dvd player is Sony. My Hi-Fi is a combination of Japanese (Denon), Chord Electronics, Arcam and Musical Fidelity. The MF looks good (A5 cd) but the internals look second rate. Probably a Sanyo fine tuned. Hope Im wrong, but thats the impression I get. It Sounds ok though, through the Arcam FMJ A33 Dac. speakers are MA PL100. Cables are VDH and AQ (USA made). I have to settle for what I have......but if you want value for Money then the Items from the Far East are hard to beat.

 

[Selby]

my tuppence worth....

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Personally, I would rather not buy any goods made in China, but it's virtually impossible not to.

Communist China, the most un-communist country in the world.

There are so many reasons why the world should not be doing business with China, but all these reasons seem to be ignored, just so we can get our goods a bit cheaper, or just so huge corporations can make even more money.

We no longer care about China's human rights record, we no longer care that the huge majority of it's people are living in absolute poverty, we ignore the fact that China is polluting the world, while the rest of us have to reduce our carbon emissions. We don't seem to care that because manufacturing cost are so low in China, it's almost as cheap to chuck your old faulty tv and buy a new one, rather than get the old one repaired. We are living in a throwaway society, when in reality, it's the opposite of what we should be doing.

I don't really know if goods made in China are of poorer quality, but from personal experience, I think they probably are. That's not important to me, but all the reasons outlined above are.

 

[stevebrock]

I love the fact that I have bought British - Rega, also this extends to my mountain bike, an Orange 5 that is made in Halifax West Yorks out of old filing cabinets!

Sadly though my TV is japanese as none made here in the UK and sorry my Car is German because I actually think they are the best made cars in the world except for Astons & Mclarens but I cant afford them.

I always try and buy british if its in my budget!

 

[BigH]

Sadly though my TV is japanese as none made here in the UK and sorry my Car is German because I actually think they are the best made cars in the world except for Astons & Mclarens but I cant afford them.

Some Japanese TVs are not made in Japan, Sonys were made in Wales until 2005 now made in Europe, not sure about others but not some Japanese goods are made in the UK.

 

[stevebrock]

Sadly though my TV is japanese as none made here in the UK and sorry my Car is German because I actually think they are the best made cars in the world except for Astons & Mclarens but I cant afford them.

Some Japanese TVs are not made in Japan, Sonys were made in Wales until 2005 now made in Europe, not sure about others but not some Japanese goods are made in the UK.

Panasonoc plasmas are made in Japan!

 

[GSB]

One could also reson that by purchasing Chinese made goods it is providing a living to people that would be otherwise forgoton by their governmont/regime.

 

[Captain Duff]

NAD were one of the first British companies to do this back in the late 70s/early 80s (a few owners ago, they are now still Chinese made but with a Canadian holding company in control), and it was for reasons of cost alone (and one of the reasons NAD gained a reputation that still to a certain extent survives of having audiophile products at a cheap price - although they are no longer the cheapest for that niche).

If I remember correctly they started off building them in Taiwan.

Yes, you are correct, and my first proper amp (a NAD 3020A bought in 1980) was made there (still works perfectly too). Mind you, the Chinese would and do claim (with a lot of justification) that Taiwan is actually part of China.