Innuos Zen mini mk3 vs CD transport

[Andrewbanks1964]

I would appreciate views on this. My system is Innuos Zen Mini mk3 with a Teddy Pardo power supply, Cary DMS 700 streamer (also supplying the DAC to the Zen), Music First Baby Reference V2 preamp, 2 Pass Labs XA 60.8 monoblocs into B & W 802d speakers. Usual good cables etc.

I mainly use Qobuz but also have 4000 albums ripped to the Zen. However I have quite a large number of CDs that I can’t rip. I’m wondering how the Zen compares as a transport into the DAC of the Cary (which is very good) to either: 1. Using a quality CD transport with the DAC in the Cary or 2. Using an older high quality CD player, like an old Wadia or Luxman or Chord player. I don’t expect to use it very often but if it isn’t good I wouldn’t want to use it at all!

Have CD players moved on so much that top of the line CD players from 2x years age are really outdated or are they still really good. Demonstrating them in my system isn’t really an option so I want to make an informed remote decision. Appreciate any comments. Thanks

 

[nopiano]

Welcome to the forum! What a super system!

I’m not intimate with the Innuos range, but I think the Zen Mini has several senior models above it before the Statement. And then a newer top model I don’t remember the name of. You might feel they’d offer better results, though I’m unsure how easily you can switch the content you’ve already ripped.

In my experience, CD players haven’t meaningfully improved in recent years. What has happened is that the increasingly limited number of transports has diminished even further. Most ‘new, improved’ CD players in the last 15 years or so, are mostly due to changing the drive or the model of DAC.

My Marantz is a pretty hefty design, whereas my Tascam is a lightweight.(see signature for kit list) But the Tascam measures perfectly as a transport - see Audio Science Review. The drive is used in players costing ten to 20x the price, from quality brands like Primare and ATC, so you may begin to wonder just how amazing the brands you mention really were, even if they had thick aluminium fronts and fancy buttons!

How about a universal player, like the discontinued Oppos? The 95, 105 and 205 models were the audiophile versions, but as you may choose your Cary DAC it may not matter much. A quality item from Luxman or Wadia if chosen carefully will retain its value. Maybe from an established secondhand retailer who takes returns. A new Tascam won’t keep its price, but might be worth a try for around £250.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[Andrewbanks1964]

Welcome to the forum! What a super system!

I’m not intimate with the Innuos range, but I think the Zen Mini has several senior models above it before the Statement. And then a newer top model I don’t remember the name of. You might feel they’d offer better results, though I’m unsure how easily you can switch the content you’ve already ripped.

In my experience, CD players haven’t meaningfully improved in recent years. What has happened is that the increasingly limited number of transports has diminished even further. Most ‘new, improved’ CD players in the last 15 years or so, are mostly due to changing the drive or the model of DAC.

My Marantz is a pretty hefty design, whereas my Tascam is a lightweight.(see signature for kit list) But the Tascam measures perfectly as a transport - see Audio Science Review. The drive is used in players costing ten to 20x the price, from quality brands like Primare and ATC, so you may begin to wonder just how amazing the brands you mention really were, even if the had thick aluminium fronts and fancy buttons!

How about a universal player, like the discontinued Oppos? The 95, 105 and 205 models were the audiophile versions, but as you may choose your Cary DAC it may not matter much. A quality item from Luxman or Wadia if chosen carefully will retain its value. Maybe from an established secondhand retailer who takes returns. A new Tascam won’t keep its price, but might be worth a try for around £250.

Hope that helps a bit.

Hi thanks for the comments. Will have a look at the Tascam especially if the drive is good. I used ti have the Akurate DSM before replacing it with the CARY. It sounded good, like all Linn products but the App was so frustrating to get it to work…and I am not tech savvy when things go wrong.

I have two back ups of the 4000 ripped cds on portable hard drives…just in case. The Innuos is great for ripping and is very easy to back up as well. My last ripped copy stored in a NAS drive failed and I have spent two years ripping them again. Up to W so very nearly done!

 

[davidf]

I find the Innuos servers to be generally superior to compact disc players, mainly because there's a lot of mediocre CD players on the market. Choosing one of the standout CD players, the differences are minimised. The ZEN Mini though, is Innuos' entry level server, and my thoughts above are based on their purely digital ZEN and ZENith servers. The ZEN Mini is a more "universal" server, designed to cover all situations a server could fulfil (digital and analogue outputs etc), so is more of a "jack of all trades rather than a master of the one thing it is designed to do. That's not a criticism of the ZEN Mini, as it is just as good as its bigger brothers in most aspects.

A good enough CD player will best the ZEN Mini, but it'd need to be a decent one.

And agreed, the Innuos servers are excellent with regards to ripping, backup, editing, and general usage.

What's the reason for not being able to rip certain CDs you have?

 

[Andrewbanks1964]

I find the Innuos servers to be generally superior to compact disc players, mainly because there's a lot of mediocre CD players on the market. Choosing one of the standout CD players, the differences are minimised. The ZEN Mini though, is Innuos' entry level server, and my thoughts above are based on their purely digital ZEN and ZENith servers. The ZEN Mini is a more "universal" server, designed to cover all situations a server could fulfil (digital and analogue outputs etc), so is more of a "jack of all trades rather than a master of the one thing it is designed to do. That's not a criticism of the ZEN Mini, as it is just as good as its bigger brothers in most aspects.

A good enough CD player will best the ZEN Mini, but it'd need to be a decent one.

And agreed, the Innuos servers are excellent with regards to ripping, backup, editing, and general usage.

What's the reason for not being able to rip certain CDs you have?

 

[Andrewbanks1964]

Hi thanks for your reply. I don’t know why they won’t rip. They look unmarked but they are themselves copies. Of 4000 only about 75 didn’t rip but they are mainly things not available on Qobuz and I just won’t want to play them unless the quality is very good. I’m generally very happy with the quality of ripped CDs stored on the Zen Mk3 but using the Cary DAC, but just wondered if a separate transport or older top on the line CD would be better than the Zen/Cary combination.

 

[Integralista]

Hi Andrew, it looks like you experience deja vu with CD playback. Like many of us. I has had good experience in past with following CD Transports: CEC 51 TL Belt Drive, today aroumd 1000 eur on ebay. This was realy good machine. Your Mini Zen has also solide CD transport inside, but CEC or Teac VRDS 701 as a new one today for some some 2500 Eur is sure on better level. Quality of Dac like what is inside your Cary DMS 700 Streamer has for sure potential for a better CD transport. Those Teac or CEC are not problematic for servising, lasers are available. Also Roksan Caspian is high quality used CD player, transport. Or Rega Saturn I can also personaly recommend. Or Cyrus CDXt is famous as transport. There are quite many good options on the market available. I am also still using CD player, Audiab Flight Two. Is very good, rock solide sound just exchange of laser was a big pain some years ago. BR.

 

[Andrewbanks1964]

Hi Andrew, it looks like you experience deja vu with CD playback. Like many of us. I has had good experience in past with following CD Transports: CEC 51 TL Belt Drive, today aroumd 1000 eur on ebay. This was realy good machine. Your Mini Zen has also solide CD transport inside, but CEC or Teac VRDS 701 as a new one today for some some 2500 Eur is sure on better level. Quality of Dac like what is inside your Cary DMS 700 Streamer has for sure potential for a better CD transport. Those Teac or CEC are not problematic for servising, lasers are available. Also Roksan Caspian is high quality used CD player, transport. Or Rega Saturn I can also personaly recommend. Or Cyrus CDXt is famous as transport. There are quite many good options on the market available. I am also still using CD player, Audiab Flight Two. Is very good, rock solide sound just exchange of laser was a big pain some years ago. BR.

Great thanks for the comments. I’m going to investigate the transport route I think. I am aware the Teac is very well thought of. I heard the Cyrus is good but I couldn’t quite get over how damn ugly it looks!

 

[davidf]

Hi thanks for your reply. I don’t know why they won’t rip. They look unmarked but they are themselves copies. Of 4000 only about 75 didn’t rip but they are mainly things not available on Qobuz and I just won’t want to play them unless the quality is very good. I’m generally very happy with the quality of ripped CDs stored on the Zen Mk3 but using the Cary DAC, but just wondered if a separate transport or older top on the line CD would be better than the Zen/Cary combination.

Send Innuos the information of the discs that aren't ripping - they usually like to know if certain discs don't rip so they can fix the issue if they can. I once reported an issue of a disc not ripping so- they asked me to send them the disc that wasn't ripping, an d they worked out why and fixed it.

 

[Andrewbanks1964]

Interesting. I’ll do that. Thanks

 

[davidf]

I'm surprised you've got 75 that won't rip, I had one that wouldn't rip, and one that had an issue because it had a video included on the disc, which caused issues. Maybe worth trying to tip to a laptop and transfer to the Innuos from there? If there's videos on the disc, rip it to a laptop/PC, remove the video file, and then send it to the Innuos.

 

[Andrewbanks1964]

There might be the odd one of two but most are definitely just CDs.

 

[Revolutions]

I've been in a similar place, looking at options for a half-width cd player for irregular listening, with an open mind as to the budget. Apologies for the essay, but sharing in case my journey is of any help.

Am I right in thinking you can't use the Zen Mini to play cds like a normal player? That was a real disappointment as otherwise it would've been perfect for me: a small NAS for the limited files I have & the ability to play cds, as I still find it quite dissatisfying choosing albums from a list on a screen when I'm at home. (I've probably only got a couple of GB of files on my NAS, which is total overkill as solution.)

Firstly, I tried a 2nd hand Cyrus CDT. Whilst it sounded excellent it wouldn't play non-red book cds (a no-go for me thanks to all the 90s eps from unsigned bands etc I still like to play from time to time). I came close to going with the Exposure XM as there were a couple of great open-box deals going. In the end it didn't feel right spending double what I need to get a quality unit, even if it's UK made. I've been keeping an eye on Rega Apollo R units on ebay - they pop up every now & again but are quite popular & wary of overpaying for a 2nd hand player.

I'm sure Jasonovich will be proud of me, ending up with a shortlist of the SMSL PL200 T or Shanling ET3. I finally bit the bullet & ordered the Shanling this morning. It's more expensive that the SMSL & has loads of features I'm not going to use. But in the end the tiny size, single piece lid & black colour going better with my system eventutally sold it for me.

As an aside, for full-sized bargains, right now on ebay there's a super cheap Tascam CD-200 that @nopiano recently mentioned got a perfect review as a transport on audio science review, or a Marantz CD6000 ki Signature that can be had for less than £200 - a hell of a cdp in its day.