I could do it.

[Thompsonuxb]

bsub wrote
"Everyone believes that they can pass ABX tests until they fail one. Although I suspect I'm banging my head needlessly - it's not your ears that fool you - it's your brain that does that. Just like everyone else that listens to music. If your brain didn't do such a good job at fooling you, music would sound incomprehensible! All our senses get "fooled" - they wouldn't work otherwise!"

O.k let me say this I trust my senses if I hear a difference I will say so - I will not sit there jump up and shout out "ah haaahhhh, my brain is trying to fool me, but I will not be fooled, oh no...there is no change " if I hear a difference be it blind or sighted I will acknowledge it. Doing specfic test to try and fool the ear/brain has no bearing in a straight forward listening test to recordings through various equ.

Considering the data is fixed on a cd/file/vinyl it will not vary if played 100 times. if differences are heard they are real. I would do an ABX test and Iam confident I would pass it, in fact I'd do any listening test and hear difference if there were any.

If anyone cares to respond pls don't invite me to do those stupid tests online to 'see if you can be fooled' I genuinly do not see their relavence in real world terms and so won't waste my time - saying that I do acknowledge we can be fooled....were was I..oh yes.

So do you trust your senses or not?

 

[Craig M.]

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Wow would it kill you to respond one way or another..... do you trust your senses or not?

I mean the time it took you to find that pick dump it in this thread you could have contributed to this forum/thread far more constructively......

 

[Craig M.]

Click the link in my sig. That should tell you what I think.

 

[abacus]

Yes within their limitations.

BTW Vinyl will alter in sound over time due to wear. (Given enough plays the information contained within will disappear forever)

Bill

 

[chebby]

Yes within their limitations.

BTW Vinyl will alter in sound over time due to wear. (Given enough plays the information contained within will disappear forever)

Bill

Not if using a decent elliptal with correct alignment and recommended tracking force. (And where the stylus is regularly brushed and replaced after every 1500 hours of playing time rather than when it's knackered.)

 

[abacus]

Yes within their limitations.

BTW Vinyl will alter in sound over time due to wear. (Given enough plays the information contained within will disappear forever)

Bill

Not if using a decent elliptal with correct alignment and recommended tracking force. (And where the stylus is regularly brushed and replaced after every 1500 hours of playing time rather than when it's knackered.)

Everything that rubs against each other will deteriorate over time and eventually wear out, (It’s the law of physics) however keeping things in tip top condition will make it last longer.

Bill

 

[CnoEvil]

Everything that rubs against each other will deteriorate over time and eventually wear out..

So that's what happened to me...I always wondered.

 

[MakkaPakka]

I don't trust people who claim they heard something then a week later heard the same thing with a slight system change then can report the bass was tighter, the treble was harsher, etc. Even with a 10 second delay to flick switches or change cables it's simply not possible to recall such differences accurately.

I think the only way you can truly compare similar sounding things is instant switching and being able to repeat the same short passage of sound again and again. This is what the ABX tool in foobar does.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Craig M. I read the link......what a load of twaddle."Expectation bias" is this the new term that tells us we can not differentiate differences between what we hear (taste) , the new buzz phrase for us not to trust our senses?....effffrrr.Sat in a perfect triangle to your speakers moving your head a foot to the left or right, forward or back up and down can have a profound effect on the stereo image that they present to you. Getting up and walking around the room more so - we can acknowlegde this and so for critical listening adjust accordingly there is again no need for science or explanations.( this can go some way to explain why your systems presentation will differ...... lol)If a difference is heard after a change in the chain , chances are its real - trusting our senses is not wrong.

 

[Alec]

data:image/jpeg;base64,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

data:image/jpeg;base64,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

EDIT - GAH!

Maybe this'll work - http://www.lyonslogic.com/2012/10/anti-science-rhetoric-from-pit-of-hell.html

http://www.zazzle.com/screw_you_science_im_a_wizard_t_shirt-235099276404612222

EDITOHFORGOODNESSSAKES!!!!!! with th efirst link, it's th epic of the pic of the unicorn is what I was trying to get to.

 

[cheeseboy]

Craig M. I read the link......what a load of twaddle."Expectation bias" is this the new term that tells us we can not differentiate differences between what we hear (taste) , the new buzz phrase for us not to trust our senses?....effffrrr.Sat in a perfect triangle to your speakers moving your head a foot to the left or right, forward or back up and down can have a profound effect on the stereo image that they present to you. Getting up and walking around the room more so - we can acknowlegde this and so for critical listening adjust accordingly there is again no need for science or explanations.( this can go some way to explain why your systems presentation will differ...... lol)If a difference is heard after a change in the chain , chances are its real - trusting our senses is not wrong.

:rofl: dude, lay of the meds.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Craig M. I read the link......what a load of twaddle."Expectation bias" is this the new term that tells us we can not differentiate differences between what we hear (taste) , the new buzz phrase for us not to trust our senses?....effffrrr.Sat in a perfect triangle to your speakers moving your head a foot to the left or right, forward or back up and down can have a profound effect on the stereo image that they present to you. Getting up and walking around the room more so - we can acknowlegde this and so for critical listening adjust accordingly there is again no need for science or explanations.( this can go some way to explain why your systems presentation will differ...... lol)If a difference is heard after a change in the chain , chances are its real - trusting our senses is not wrong.

:rofl: dude, lay of the meds.

What?

No, maybe you should get yourself some meds and try to atleast respond with a constructive pov that'll prove me wrong.

Its easy to try and ridicule with pointless one liners alot easier than making your own argument that may expose you as not being as clever as you think you are. so to you I say c'mon, what are you saying? - do you not trust your own senses, your ability to hear differences and if so why?

Lets see how your argument stacks up.

 

[davedotco]

Just out of interest I wonder how many people have actually taken part in a properly conducted blind test?

I have done so on a couple of occasions sometime in the past and I found the results truly eyeopening.

The difference between products I would normally discribe as chalk and cheese were so small as to be impossible to pick with any certainty, there was no trickery involved just systems set up and played as normal at the same volume level.

I have said many times that I believe that there are differences that can be heard between components and also that I do not believe blind testing to be the answer to everything but I found it very instructive to see just how small differences can be when the visual aspect is removed from the equation.

 

[cheeseboy]

Craig M. I read the link......what a load of twaddle."Expectation bias" is this the new term that tells us we can not differentiate differences between what we hear (taste) , the new buzz phrase for us not to trust our senses?....effffrrr.Sat in a perfect triangle to your speakers moving your head a foot to the left or right, forward or back up and down can have a profound effect on the stereo image that they present to you. Getting up and walking around the room more so - we can acknowlegde this and so for critical listening adjust accordingly there is again no need for science or explanations.( this can go some way to explain why your systems presentation will differ...... lol)If a difference is heard after a change in the chain , chances are its real - trusting our senses is not wrong.

:rofl: dude, lay of the meds.

What?

No, maybe you should get yourself some meds and try to atleast respond with a constructive pov that'll prove me wrong.

Its easy to try and ridicule with pointless one liners alot easier than making your own argument that may expose you as not being as clever as you think you are. so to you I say c'mon, what are you saying? - do you not trust your own senses, your ability to hear differences and if so why?

Lets see how your argument stacks up.

but you haven't put any points forward other than your own opinion which is "If I hear something different, it must be true" and that is something that you can't debate/argue/talk about and isn't constructive in the slightest, so you're actually being massive hypocrite. For example "Sat in a perfect triangle to your speakers moving your head a foot to the left or right, forward or back up and down can have a profound effect on the stereo image that they present to you. Getting up and walking around the room more so" - so you acknowldge that even moving your head can have a profound effect on the sound, yet then you say "If a difference is heard after a change in the chain , chances are its real - trusting our senses is not wrong" - erm, you've just explained why in your first sentance why there maybe a change, then you contradict yourself! Unless you have a chair that straps your head and body in exactly the same position, how do you know it's a change in the chain making a difference? Oh that's right, because you heard it, oh but wait, you know that moving your head can make the music have "profound" change (your words not mine) so is it the cable, is it your head?? How about you first put together a constructive argument or debate as to why Expectation bias doesn't exist instead of the amazing thought out response of "what a load of twoddle". Once you've started to do that maybe we can have amore reasoned debate, but until then, it's just not going to happen, and not because others and myself don't want it to, it's actually yourself that's blocking it.

 

[cheeseboy]

Just out of interest I wonder how many people have actually taken part in a properly conducted blind test?

I have done so on a couple of occasions sometime in the past and I found the results truly eyeopening.

The difference between products I would normally discribe as chalk and cheese were so small as to be impossible to pick with any certainty, there was no trickery involved just systems set up and played as normal at the same volume level.

I have said many times that I believe that there are differences that can be heard between components and also that I do not believe blind testing to be the answer to everything but I found it very instructive to see just how small differences can be when the visual aspect is removed from the equation.

I've done a couple, and the last one I did was for mp3/uncompressed quality, and that was interesting. Different types of music reacting differently to different compression levels. So one some I couldn't hear any difference between the 160kbps and uncompressed :O

The most telling one I ever did was with some friends - nothing serious, but it was for interconnects. The little git (as in person conducting the test) didn't change the cable at all, but all 4 of us heard differences between the supposed 6 different cables at various points or another, which basically meant we heard the same thing 6 times in a row with the exact same equipment yet it sounded differently 6 times!

Although having said I've also experienced mixing fatigue when working on the same song for a while trying to hear minute differences, then go back after a while and listen to mix a compared to mix b and can't hear any real bloody difference

I agree with everything you say though, and don't think blind testing is the answer and that their are differences between various things, but it does tend to shut a few people up when they do figuratively put their money where their mouth is and find out not all is as it hears

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Craig M. I read the link......what a load of twaddle."Expectation bias" is this the new term that tells us we can not differentiate differences between what we hear (taste) , the new buzz phrase for us not to trust our senses?....effffrrr.Sat in a perfect triangle to your speakers moving your head a foot to the left or right, forward or back up and down can have a profound effect on the stereo image that they present to you. Getting up and walking around the room more so - we can acknowlegde this and so for critical listening adjust accordingly there is again no need for science or explanations.( this can go some way to explain why your systems presentation will differ...... lol)If a difference is heard after a change in the chain , chances are its real - trusting our senses is not wrong.

:rofl: dude, lay of the meds.

What?

No, maybe you should get yourself some meds and try to atleast respond with a constructive pov that'll prove me wrong.

Its easy to try and ridicule with pointless one liners alot easier than making your own argument that may expose you as not being as clever as you think you are. so to you I say c'mon, what are you saying? - do you not trust your own senses, your ability to hear differences and if so why?

Lets see how your argument stacks up.

but you haven't put any points forward other than your own opinion which is "If I hear something different, it must be true" and that is something that you can't debate/argue/talk about and isn't constructive in the slightest, so you're actually being massive hypocrite. For example "Sat in a perfect triangle to your speakers moving your head a foot to the left or right, forward or back up and down can have a profound effect on the stereo image that they present to you. Getting up and walking around the room more so" - so you acknowldge that even moving your head can have a profound effect on the sound, yet then you say "If a difference is heard after a change in the chain , chances are its real - trusting our senses is not wrong" - erm, you've just explained why in your first sentance why there maybe a change, then you contradict yourself! Unless you have a chair that straps your head and body in exactly the same position, how do you know it's a change in the chain making a difference? Oh that's right, because you heard it, oh but wait, you know that moving your head can make the music have "profound" change (your words not mine) so is it the cable, is it your head?? How about you first put together a constructive argument or debate as to why Expectation bias doesn't exist instead of the amazing thought out response of "what a load of twoddle". Once you've started to do that maybe we can have amore reasoned debate, but until then, it's just not going to happen, and not because others and myself don't want it to, it's actually yourself that's blocking it.

Now would it have killed you to say that in the first place......

But thats the point, there are things varients that can affect what we hear or how we hear something but if you are arware you can accomadate it, which is my point - I can only give my own point of view, why I trust my sense as I only have that as a point of reference...there is no contradiction.

Expectation bias is a nonesense for that reason. we all have the ability to take into consideration our enviroment and changes such as mentioned above ref postioning we can also filter through such changes and make judgements based on what we know - question is do you trust your own judgement or do you allow others to influence or make you doubt your own judgement.

I am not stopping anyone from thinking and giving their pov......

oh, Ive done blind test too and difference were clear - even the old change nothing test....I trust my senses.

 

[Alec]

You don't really seem to have researched expectation bias though?

 

[MakkaPakka]

Just out of interest I wonder how many people have actually taken part in a properly conducted blind test?

I have done so on a couple of occasions sometime in the past and I found the results truly eyeopening.

The difference between products I would normally discribe as chalk and cheese were so small as to be impossible to pick with any certainty, there was no trickery involved just systems set up and played as normal at the same volume level.

I have said many times that I believe that there are differences that can be heard between components and also that I do not believe blind testing to be the answer to everything but I found it very instructive to see just how small differences can be when the visual aspect is removed from the equation.

http://mp3ornot.com/

This was a bit of an eye-opener so to speak for me though I've never got round to trying it on my proper setup. If you can hear 'night and day' differences between cables, cd players, etc. you should breeze through a MP3 320kbps vs 128kbps test. It is a lot harder than you would think.

The fact that people even need to debate blind tests at all would suggest people have their priorities wrong in labouring over which amp, DAC or CD player to buy. When you've got a setup that measures within a few dB across the audible frequency range, then you can deliberate over the electronics.

 

[cheeseboy]

Now would it have killed you to say that in the first place......

The same could be said when you rubbished expectation bias.

But thats the point, there are things varients that can affect what we hear or how we hear something but if you are arware you can accomadate it, which is my point - I can only give my own point of view, why I trust my sense as I only have that as a point of reference...there is no contradiction.

there's a massive contradiction though, you admit there are various things that can affect what we hear, but you're adament that when something gets changed in the stereo system it must be *that* cable, not the fact that your ears maybe a bit more blocked that day. Can't you even see the contradiction in what you've just said? :help:

Expectation bias is a nonesense for that reason.

what reason? You still haven't given any reason why it's nonsense then apart from the fact that it doesn't fit in with what you think. It's a well know brain process over all aspects of life and it's almost impossible to overcome in most situations, as much as you want to try.

we all have the ability to take into consideration our enviroment and changes such as mentioned above ref postioning we can also filter through such changes and make judgements based on what we know

but that's the thing, you're basing your judgement on what you know, regardless of the fact that it may be wrong, or proven wrong, or just the fact that you just don't seem to know.

question is do you trust your own judgement or do you allow others to influence or make you doubt your own judgement.

that completely depends on what we are talking about. With regards to music, I've done enough of it in my time to know that my ears are not the best judgement.

oh, Ive done blind test too and difference were clear - even the old change nothing test...

eh? So even though nothing changed you still heard clear differences??

.I trust my senses.

I know, you take great pains to repeat that, but it doesn't make it any more valid than wet pancake.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

You don't really seem to have researched expectation bias though?

What?

 

[andyjm]

When human response to tests really matter (drug testing for example), extraordinary precautions have to be taken to avoid bias. Double blind testing was introduced to counter the effect of the clinician sending unconcious cues to the patient if the clinician knew whether the drug being adminitstered was real or placebo (even though the patient did not) - this is expectation bias one step removed. Why anyone on this forum thinks they are immune to bias is beyond me.

I have posted this tale before, but it does warrant retelling.

As a newly minted EE working in the research department of a well known national broadcaster, I was fortunate enough to have a series of development loudspeakers demonstrated to me. As each speaker was played, the explanation of the problems encountered with the previous design was explained, and how the new design addressed this. I could hear every nuance and problem, and it was clear how the new design addressed this.

Except it was the same speaker played every time.

This was over 30 years ago, and my hearing was very much better then. I was a skeptical know-it-all-engineer, listening in ideal listening conditions and I still fell for it hook line and sinker - I was convinced I could hear the differences.

So if I had just spent good money on a DAC / speaker cable / mains cable or whatever, I would expect that I would want it to work, and I have no doubt I would hear a difference - whether or not one existed.

Don't trust your ears, in my experience, they really aren't trustworthy.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Now would it have killed you to say that in the first place......

The same could be said when you rubbished expectation bias.

But thats the point, there are things varients that can affect what we hear or how we hear something but if you are arware you can accomadate it, which is my point - I can only give my own point of view, why I trust my sense as I only have that as a point of reference...there is no contradiction.

there's a massive contradiction though, you admit there are various things that can affect what we hear, but you're adament that when something gets changed in the stereo system it must be *that* cable, not the fact that your ears maybe a bit more blocked that day. Can't you even see the contradiction in what you've just said? :help:

Expectation bias is a nonesense for that reason.

what reason? You still haven't given any reason why it's nonsense then apart from the fact that it doesn't fit in with what you think. It's a well know brain process over all aspects of life and it's almost impossible to overcome in most situations, as much as you want to try.

we all have the ability to take into consideration our enviroment and changes such as mentioned above ref postioning we can also filter through such changes and make judgements based on what we know

but that's the thing, you're basing your judgement on what you know, regardless of the fact that it may be wrong, or proven wrong, or just the fact that you just don't seem to know.

question is do you trust your own judgement or do you allow others to influence or make you doubt your own judgement.

that completely depends on what we are talking about. With regards to music, I've done enough of it in my time to know that my ears are not the best judgement.

oh, Ive done blind test too and difference were clear - even the old change nothing test...

eh? So even though nothing changed you still heard clear differences??

.I trust my senses.

I know, you take great pains to repeat that, but it doesn't make it any more valid than wet pancake.

lol...... I see why you try to get by with the one liners.

can you understand what I'm saying making a judgement when all things considered, do you intend to disect and take each sentence/line litrally.

You... tell me why you don't trust your senses,

No, the no change test is one were nothing is changed in a set up, after a few changes have been made that you have called on. just to see if the listner hears changes were there are none its a plasebo test .

 

[Thompsonuxb]

When human response to tests really matter (drug testing for example), extraordinary precautions have to be taken to avoid bias. Double blind testing was introduced to counter the effect of the clinician sending unconcious cues to the patient if the clinician knew whether the drug being adminitstered was real or placebo (even though the patient did not) - this is expectation bias one step removed. Why anyone on this forum thinks they are immune to bias is beyond me.

I have posted this tale before, but it does warrant retelling.

As a newly minted EE working in the research department of a well known national broadcaster, I was fortunate enough to have a series of development loudspeakers demonstrated to me. As each speaker was played, the explanation of the problems encountered with the previous design was explained, and how the new design addressed this. I could hear every nuance and problem, and it was clear how the new design addressed this.

Except it was the same speaker played every time.

This was over 30 years ago, and my hearing was very much better then. I was a skeptical know-it-all-engineer, listening in ideal listening conditions and I still fell for it hook line and sinker - I was convinced I could hear the differences.

So if I had just spent good money on a DAC / speaker cable / mains cable or whatever, I would expect that I would want it to work, and I have no doubt I would hear a difference - whether or not one existed.

Don't trust your ears, in my experience, they really aren't trustworthy.

ah ahhhh..... this was the test I was talking about - the no change test, but I was confident enough to say there was no change...because I trust my senses.

 

[cheeseboy]

lol...... I see why you try to get by with the one liners.

can you understand what I'm saying making a judgement when all things considered, do you intend to disect and take each sentence/line litrally.

You... tell me why you don't trust your senses,

No, the no change test is one were nothing is changed in a set up, after a few changes have been made that you have called on. just to see if the listner hears changes were there are none its a plasebo test .

Ok, I've given you the grace to reply nicely and expand as you've asked and replied to point. All I'm still getting back is "I trust my ears and everything I don't agree with is tosh". I've heard better constructive reposts from my 2 year old quite frankly!

Now, when you've taken the time to read stuff, understand it, and stop contradicting yourself, we can continue.