I’ve decided to start from scratch with laptop and Dacmagic but….

[admin_exported]

For convenience (and access to internet radio), I’ve decided to go down the
laptop -->lossless audio file --> Dacmagic route.

But before I make a wrong decision I would appreciate thoughts on the following:

1. PC or Mac?
2. Which music player? - itunes or Windows media player or other?
3. Which file format to get best sound quality?
4. What storage should I consider? External hard drive or NAS?

I will eventually be getting Squeezebox or Sonos - should this influence any of 1 to 4 above?

Many thanks.

 

[Ant8519]

hi

1. depends on what you have now and what you want to use it for....

2. medimonkey good for both, itunes rubbish in windows but good in mac

3. flac for windows, squeezebox an sonos, alac for itunes.

4. depends on final system choice....

If you're setting up a music server but hav a pc to rip your music then squeezebox duet and suitable nas (£500 for the two) takes some beating. Alternatively sonos and nas also well reviewed (probably £7-800 all in)

If you are into macs then a mamini controlled by an itouch streaming via airport express will cost about £630 but you will need extra memory so reckon on another £1-250 (depending on wired or nas etc). Plus with the mac system you will need the dacmagic, whereas the sb duet and sonos both have v capable dacs in them, although you may find them improved with the dacmagic also (I don't know - I am happy with the sound from my duet and find it as good as my rotel rcd-02 streaming lossless).

Try them out if you can and don't rush!

Ant

 

[Anonymous]

heystak:For convenience (and access to internet radio), I've decided to go down the
laptop -->lossless audio file --> Dacmagic route.

But before I make a wrong decision I would appreciate thoughts on the following:

1. PC or Mac?
2. Which music player? - itunes or Windows media player or other?
3. Which file format to get best sound quality?
4. What storage should I consider? External hard drive or NAS?

I will eventually be getting Squeezebox or Sonos - should this influence any of 1 to 4 above?

Many thanks.

Mac mini, itunes, Apple lossless, NAS or external, ipod touch+remote. You might want to consider something better than the Dacmagic, though. Lavry is apparently not bad.

 

[idc]

Ant8519:

2. medimonkey good for both, itunes rubbish in windows but good in mac

3. flac for windows, squeezebox an sonos, alac for itunes.

You know a lot more about computers than I do Ant but really; Itunes is rubbish in windows, in what way? As for point 3 any lossless file will do as they all sound the same.

 

[Anonymous]

"You know a lot more about computers than I do Ant but really; Itunes is rubbish in windows" Why? Technical explanation required.

 

[Anonymous]

1. Really doesn't matter - pick what you prefer for other reasons than music. PC will cost less, Mac looks better 🙂 In the end, both do the same exact thing. (Also with PC you are not tied to one manufacturer - with Mac you surely are!)

2. With Mac- Itunes. With PC - Foobar. Foobar is free, lean- takes up no memory, great plug-ins, very customizable. Itunes is bloated and inflexible IMO.

3. Apple Lossless (FLAC if you don't use iPods.)

4. Hmm will let other tackle this. I currently have mine on external HD but not sure that's the best option.

 

[Ant8519]

Flac and alac essentially the same, the reason I differentiate is that squeezebox handles flac natively but not alac, conversely itunes can manage alac but cannot read flac (at least not without some external plugins)

As for itunes in windows - OK it isn't exactly rubbish, but it just behaves differently and is much slicker on the mac - on win a better bet is mediamonkey/foobar etc

Personally I like macs but refuse to pay ridiculous money for them when a pc will do more for half the price...

CORRECTION - DO THE SAME FOR HALF THE PRICE!

 

[Anonymous]

You could get a little netbook.Dell Inspiron Mini start from £199.

A Macbook running iTunes via optical to the DAC choice however would give you a pleasant experience, and upto 24/96 output.

I would consider an Airport Express too, connected to the DAC via optical, allowing the laptop to be on the sofa streaming over.

 

[PJPro]

Interesting. I have been thinking about getting a Mac. I still might. However, for the meantime I've bought one of those Samsung NC10s. No optical out or gigabit ethernet (my number one requirements!) but not bad for my wife to browse the net and for the little ones to use and seems to attract a high online ratings.

Still reckon I can squeeze a decent sound out of it via USB. More than good enough for my kitchen setup. And it has a respectable 160GB HDD.

 

[PJPro]

idc:Ant8519:

2. medimonkey good for both, itunes rubbish in windows but good in mac

3. flac for windows, squeezebox an sonos, alac for itunes.

You know a lot more about computers than I do Ant but really; Itunes is rubbish in windows, in what way? As for point 3 any lossless file will do as they all sound the same.

Tarquinh:"You know a lot more about computers than I do Ant but really; Itunes is rubbish in windows" Why? Technical explanation required.

OK. I have to say that when I've looked into such things, most sites I visit tend to not recommend iTunes on Windows for sound quality. I don't have any direct evidence for this and haven't tried iTunes myself....so much of the critism may revolve around the other negative aspects associated with Apple that tend to annoy people eg DRM (now gone), big organisation, etc, etc.

Does iTunes provide methods for bypassing the KMixer in XP or utilising exclusive mode in Vista (WASAPI)? I don't think it does....so there may be something in the claim that iTunes isn't cool on windows. I'd be happy for someone to correct me on this.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi all, first post here, though I've been reading several very useful threads (like PJPRo's), thanks.

After deciding that I'd investigate if pc based audio would be something for me I've taken the following steps: read a lot, select the software I liked most (Mediamonkey), ripped some cd's to FLAC and MP3 on my normal laptop, ordered a USB DAC (MF Vdac - I reckoned that if I did not like it al all it would not be hard to sell again here in the Netherlands where they are hard to find), and I am now testing - will install asio or kernel streaming shortly. So far so good.

The next step (and reason to react to this thread) is buying a dedicated pc, and in fact I was also considering a netbook. Some are fairly quiet so it seems (like the Samsung (?) and MSI Wind apparently), some are really really silent (like the fanless Dell with 16Gb SSD) but need an external HD (which in fact can be quite handy and flexible). I also like the Gigabyte netbook with touchscreen tablet, that would look very nice as an audio device, but I do not know how noisy it is. But I do have some questions that I'd like to know more about:

- Is a netbook + external USB HD a good idea if also a USB DAC needs to be driven - no drop outs due to USB clogging? Anyone tested this?

- PJPRo: is the Samsung quiet enough if it only is playing audiofiles? Fan/HD noise?

An unrelated question: am I right in assuming that you should always send the digital signal to USB at 100 percent volume? So playing at 100% volume digital (in Mediamonkey) and low amplifier volume is always better than 50% digital volume and twice the analog amplification? I am also curious how volume levelling and replay gain actually works - are all 41k datasamples multiplied by this factor before sending them to de USB DAC?

Any thoughts are highly appreciated!

 

[Anonymous]

Eddie Pound:
You could get a little netbook.Dell Inspiron Mini start from £199.

I've just bought one these, think it was £210 but that was with 2GB RAM, 16GB SSD and Webcam, so pretty good value too. You can also load OS X on them too... obviously that is against Apple's user license agreement, but it's pretty impressive what the members of www.mydellmini.com/forum have done to patch it to run Leopard. It's meant to be the most solid 'Hackintosh' out there, I thought I'd give it a go and pair it with iTunes to fuel my media hifi.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

heystak:For convenience (and access to internet radio), I've decided to go down the
laptop -->lossless audio file --> Dacmagic route.

But before I make a wrong decision I would appreciate thoughts on the following:

1. PC or Mac?
2. Which music player? - itunes or Windows media player or other?
3. Which file format to get best sound quality?
4. What storage should I consider? External hard drive or NAS?

I will eventually be getting Squeezebox or Sonos - should this influence any of 1 to 4 above?

Many thanks.

Go for it Heystak - you can show Joelsim that lossless files to the DacMagic can compete/better the 192!!

I use Windows and rip to WMA Lossless files. For me the Windows Media Center is very user friendly and looks great. I have a 1TB internal drive just for my media and back the files up with an external drive (only need a 160gb one at the moment). I don't know anything about the Squeezebox or Sonos though - I use a media center extender wirelessly.

 

[PJPro]

Pete10:
Hi all, first post here, though I've been reading several very useful threads (like PJPRo's), thanks

You're welcome. Glad to be able to help.

Pete10:- PJPRo: is the Samsung quiet enough if it only is playing audiofiles? Fan/HD noise?

Well, so far I can't hear it all all. You have to remember though that it is winter and my house is what most people would call cold. Moreover, I haven't really taxed it yet...just web browsing.

The NC10, as a netbook, is regarded as the best available by many influential test sites. Do a bit of googling and you'll see I'm right.

As a media player, it should be OK....although I would have prefered gigabit ethernet and S/PDIF output. I guess you can live without the S/PDIF now that DACs tend to support USB2.0. Gigabit ethernet is also a nice to have, speeding up the transfer of files over your network, assuming you have a gigabit network (which I have).

I have read somewhere about using palmtop PCs with bluetooth to control media PCs in much the same way as the Apple fraternity use the iPod Touch to control mini macs, etc. This does require a bit of extra software (can't remember what it's called but shouldn't be difficult to find) but as far as I can remember, it wasn't expensive.

I've also bought a nice little mouse (Logitech VX Nano) to go with the NC10. This has the smallest USB dongle in the world! I did look into bluetooth mice but these seemed to suffer from motion delays....not good!

 

[Anonymous]

Hello Gents I am completely new and this is my first post and in fact the first thread I have read.

You all seem to know what you are talking about so could anybody give me a steer on DACs.

I have a NAS set up (via router) to my home PC and have installed an alledgedly audiophile grade soundcard, the ASUS Xonar D2X

http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=ZBWhAEnH6nDOB00E&templete=2

The home network is a next step but my immediate aim is to get good sound from my existing system.

The soundcard has greatly improved the sound quality but I was wondering if I inserted a Cambridge Audio DAC magic (or others) inbetween the PC and my old school Nakamichi AV10 I would get a noticable improvement in sound.

I have pasted the specification below but its all greek to me...........

ASUS Spec:

Audio Processor:
ASUS AV200 High-Definition Sound Processor (Max. 192KHz/24bit)
24-bit D-A Converter of Digital Sources:
TI Burr-Brown PCM1796 *4 (123dB SNR, Max. 192kHz/24bit)
24-bit A-D Converter for Analog Inputs:
Cirrus-Logic CS5381* 1 (120dB SNR, Max. 192kHz/24bit)

DAC Magic Spec

D/A Converters😀ual Wolfson WM8740 24bit DACs

Digital filter: Texas Instruments TMS 320VC5501 DSP upsampling to 24bit 192kHz

Analogue filter: 2-Pole Dual Differential Bessel Double Virtual Earth Balanced

 

[John Duncan]

Personally I would suspect not.

For starters, the Burr-Brown DAC chip should certainly be on a par with that in a DM. The only benefit you would get from a DACMagic over the soundcard you have is the potential to move the audio circuits away from the electrically noisy innards of a PC. That said, higher end soundcards are often quite well shielded, so you may not have a problem at all - if you don't get electrical noise/hum when you turn up the volume with no music playing, then I wouldn't worry about it. And even then, I still found a bit of electrical noise coming through my DM when attached via USB to my horribly noisy laptop (though it was much better, certainly).

 

[Anonymous]

The ASUS is a good quality souncard no arguments, but the sound quality from you PC/DAC can be effected by a number of other factors.

1) What Operating system are you running ?

2) What software do you use to playback your media ?

If you are serious about playing music from your PC (your choices suggest you are), then it is essential that the answer to both 1) and 2) allow you to send music from computer file to the soundcard/dac without the intervention of the Operating System's mixer.

 

[pete321]

rob kidd: The soundcard has greatly improved the sound quality but I was wondering if I inserted a Cambridge Audio DAC magic (or others) inbetween the PC and my old school Nakamichi AV10 I would get a noticable improvement in sound.

I have pasted the specification below but its all greek to me...........

ASUS Spec:

Audio Processor:
ASUS AV200 High-Definition Sound Processor (Max. 192KHz/24bit)
24-bit D-A Converter of Digital Sources:
TI Burr-Brown PCM1796 *4 (123dB SNR, Max. 192kHz/24bit)
24-bit A-D Converter for Analog Inputs:
Cirrus-Logic CS5381* 1 (120dB SNR, Max. 192kHz/24bit)

DAC Magic Spec

D/A Converters😀ual Wolfson WM8740 24bit DACs

Digital filter: Texas Instruments TMS 320VC5501 DSP upsampling to 24bit 192kHz

Analogue filter: 2-Pole Dual Differential Bessel Double Virtual Earth Balanced

I use a DacMagic which used to be connected from my PC's onboard SPDIF out. I recently bought an Asus Xonae Essence ST which has a higher spec than the card you mention. In addition I upgraded the opamps in this card. It didn't come close to the DacMagic, the soundcard now just used for it's coax SPDIF output. My DacMagic doesn't much resemble the original after a various component upgrades, but I know I wasted my money with the Asus soundcard. I'd use a DacMagic with SPDIF connection rather than USB (to cater for 24bit/96kHz files) and if that means getting a soundcard, get the cheapest one you can that has drivers that allow for bitperfect playback, currently not Asus.

 

[Anonymous]

I would second Pete321's advice regarding bit perfect SPDIF.

First do some bit of research to check that you can use the digital outputs of your soundcard bit perfectly (i.e can you select a sample rate to match the output, and when connected to the DAC, can you adjust the volume level via the PC. If you can, then the SPDIF is not acting bit perfect but rather passing a digital signal from the Soundcard's DSP)

The cheapest option is any PCI card based on a CMedia 8738 or 8768 with digital outputs. These cards are still available and should set you back no more than £25. The latest CMedia drivers for these cards supposedly support BitPerfect output, but there are also some open source drivers (and IMHO far superior drivers) which were specifically written with BitPerfect Audio in mind, so they make more sense to me, but please note the hardware only seems to support 16bit.

More information can be found here: http://code.google.com/p/cmediadrivers/

Another alternative if you are wanting 24bit FLAC support is a PCI card based on the VIA Envy24 audio chipset but these tend to be slightly more expensive.

There are also usb->spdif converters that do bit perfect audio available on Ebay for under £15 (search: USB to SPDIF/COAX Converter), but there is no indication of 24bit support but the specs say they support 32,44.1 8 48khz sample rates.

Which ever option you choose your software player must bypass the mixer/Direct Sound.

The overal goal of the exercise is to pass untouched audio to the DAC.

 

[pete321]

Using Windows 7 x64, the only way I can get a bit perfect signal from my PC to DacMagic is using Foobar2000 with WASAPI plugin (with help from PJPro!). Playback from that software is superb, my DacMagic sample rates change automatically as per the source playing, i.e. 44.1 or 96kHz, plus the Windows volume is disabled. Unfortunately, I prefer WMP (in user friendliness not sound) and at times want to use Media Center with a remote. There are options as suggested, including Slysoft's ReClock and ASIO drivers, but I've not been able to get any of them to work with WMP or Media Center, so for now I'm stuck with Foobar2000 because I can really notice a difference in playback, even if Windows is manually set to output the correct bit/sample rates for each source in WMP. Bit Perfect playback sounds so much more open and detailed.

 

[PJPro]

pete321:.....I'm stuck with Foobar2000.....
What's the problem with FB2K?

 

[idc]

How do I get bit perfect out of W7 to a USB DAC? I may already be getting it, so how do I find out?

Thanks

 

[pete321]

PJPro:pete321:.....I'm stuck with Foobar2000..... What's the problem with FB2K?

It sounds great as it's the only software that I can use for bit perfect, but I prefer WMP to use and I also want to be able to use Media Center with my remote, but as you know, I can't get them to work bit perfect.

 

[pete321]

idc:

How do I get bit perfect out of W7 to a USB DAC? I may already be getting it, so how do I find out?

The only way I've managed it using W7 is by using Foobar2000 as a player. You can download various components (plugins) for it, one of them being WASAPI Output Support. Once Foobar's installed and you've added the WASAPI component to the installation folder, it will allow bit-exact output which will mute all other sounds on Windows. You just need to select the WASAPI audio output option in Foobar's output preferences. I'd suggest you download it and give it a try with a couple of songs and do comparisons with your current player. Personally, I could notice quite a difference with CD 16/44 rips, but even moreso with my higher resolution files, i.e. HDCD rips 24bit/44.1kHz (possible using dBpowerAmp to rip the HDCD info) or 24bit 96kHz (Linn downlowds or DVD-A rips).

 

[idc]

Thanks pete. I dont want to switch from itunes as the last time I tried that I eneded up in a worst position than before. I have noticed a difference between W7 and XP where I initially preferred XP. Now after some time I am used to W7, but I know it can be improved on. I'll hunt around on the internet.