How to optimise my config (Atoll + Triangle + Lindy DAC) ?

[kelfab]

Hello,

i would like you opinion regarding how i can to optimise my hifi's config because i'm not entirely satisfied with it.

It's composed with 2 Triangle Comete ES, an Atoll in50, an little Lindy Pro DAC connected to an Apple TV (in order to have Aiplay).

I'm using Qobuz hifi streaming as a source (16 bits 44,1 kHz) through iphone / ipad / PC.

The problem is that the music is sometimes tiring because of the pronounced trebles and the stereo image could be surely better. I got a Sennheiser Momentum and i'd like to have a such balanced sound with a touch of smoothness which makes listening sessions enjoyable for hours.

I'm wondering how i can improve my system, considering several options like :

- changing the dac for a better one (like the Arcam irDac) or

- changing the amplifier for a nad D3020 (with integrated DAC),

- changing the speakers for smoothest ones.

I can only do one improvement for now at max £400, what would you suggest ?

 

[bigfish786]

I'd say try a decent CD player. See if you can home demo any, or try your DVD player through your dac. See if that improves the dynamics?

 

[DocG]

Hi kelfab,

The issues you mention could be speaker-room issues (which are then obviously not there with the cans). Could you give us some more info? What are the room dimensions? Where are the speakers (distance to wall/corners)? What is your room like (flooring, plaster walls, windows, curtains, rugs, ...)?

Shifting your speakers around a bit is free, and €400 could get you a nice carpet!

(Only wildly guessing, as you understand...)

 

[kelfab]

I already had a decent CD player (cambridge 340C) that i sold and i got the same issue with it.

The room is 8.5 meters long x 4.1 meters large.

Right speaker is 70 cm from right wall.

Left speaker is 110 cm from right wall.

Both are 40 cm from back wall.

The floor is tiled and there's a 2.2 meters window on right wall at 1 meter from the back wall, covered by a light curtain.

Walls are made of red bricks covered with plaster and painted.

I already tried to move the speakers in all directions, and now as it is this is the best compromise between stereo image and bass response. It was hard to place everything to have an acceptable stereo image but i feel it could be better with something else than speaker placement.

I also already had a big carpet between the sofa and the speakers with more or less the same result. 🙂

 

[DocG]

FOR

• Punchy, direct, focused sound

AGAINST

• Don’t sound especially naturalenthusiastic sound could be tiring for some

So the speakers might be part of the problem (I haven't heard them myself, just read the review).

Having said that, your room does look rather 'hard', with a tiled floor and plaster walls. I suppose the ceiling is plastered too? And the walls are parallel (i.e. a rectangular room)... Is some form of room treatment an option? Or would you risk a divorce? Or physical harm?

Is there a particular reason why your speakers are at different distances from the side walls? That probably won't help for a pinpoint stereo image; the first reflections will be out of phase and muddy-up the sound.

As for the carpet: a strategically placed, thick rug will work far better than a big, thinner one.

So in summary, yes, I think speaker repositioning and some room treatment is where I would invest time (Google is your friend!), ask advice and spend some money. If that's not feasible, look for more natural, less enthusiastic speakers. They will somewhat mask (but not cure) the problem.

IMO, that is.

 

[kelfab]

Thanks for your answers.

I'll try to center the speakers next week end to see if the stereo image is better. The reason why it's not centered is because the space necessary to access to the sofa is on the left side, so speakers are placed to be exactly in front of the sofa.

By room treatment do you mean something like that : http://media.soundonsound.com/sos/dec09/images/acoustics_03.jpg ?

If that's what you mean, yes i risk divorce and physical harm (particularly retina harm)

Mainly because this is my living room, I can not do that kind of stuff here.

And will i gain something if i change my tiny lindy dac by an arcam irdac or the in50 & Lindy by the Nad D 3020 or it's not worth it ?

 

[CnoEvil]

FWIW. I have always found Triangle speakers too forward and bright.

 

[DocG]

By room treatment do you mean something like that : http://media.soundonsound.com/sos/dec09/images/acoustics_03.jpg ?

If that's what you mean, yes i risk divorce and physical harm (particularly retina harm)

Mainly because this is my living room, I can not do that kind of stuff here.

Yes! That's exactly what I mean! :bounce:

No, seriously. If you want to go into this: take a mirror and lay it on the floor. Shove it around until it allows you to see your speakers from the listening seat. These are your 'first reflection points' on the floor. You would need a carpet, big enough to cover these two spots. Now take your wife/girlfriend/significant-other out to a furniture store to choose a rug you both like the look of. Pay at the check-out. Get it in place.

You could then do more or less the same on the left and right side wall -- you will need someone to shove the mirror around this time, so you can be in the sofa, giving directions. Put 'something' on the wall just there, a picture of your parents-in-law, printed on canvas, could be just the ticket! Just make sure it has a soft, rough surface: it should absorb or diffuse the sound waves.

Then come back to the forum to report how amazing the result is: better sound for you, a nice rug and pictures of her parents in the living room for your wife! What's not to like? And if you get better gear later on, these modifications will still work nicely...

And will i gain something if i change my tiny lindy dac by an arcam irdac or the in50 & Lindy by the Nad D 3020 or it's not worth it ?

If it is a new DAC or amp you need, get one. It might make a difference (or maybe not)...

See what is left of your budget after you get the rug and pictures... 😉

 

[kelfab]

Thanks for your wise point of view, i'll try to optimise a bit my installation considering your advices.

Regarding that, i think there is other problems in the listening space :

- a coffee table between the sofa and the speakers (so i'm not sure placing a carpet under the table will change things a lot),

- a large metal radiator under the window,

- a little bar furniture against the left wall,

- a tv stand and a 40" lcd TV between the 2 speakers (the speakers are a bit forward from the tv stand)

i haven't other choices than having all these stuff at the same place because i can't afford having a dedicated place for music listening

 

[DocG]

Coffee table: probably important (do the mirror test to be sure)! But easily managed: fill it with books, mags and clutter! Appreciate the difference.

The TV between the speakers might be the other important spoiler. But not much you can do about that... You could try if covering it with a blanket makes a difference, but even if it does: slim chance she will let that happen (and neither will you, I guess...)!

Not sure the other issues you mention are that important to the sound...