How to improve stereo sound on a new 5.1 Home Cinema set up

[magicshaunson]

Hello all,

I've just had installed a brand new 5.1 system consisting of the B&W 685 Theatre package and Yamaha 863 amp. Source currently is a PS3.

I'm least pleased with its ability to play CDs, and was wondering what I should add to improve sound quality (which currently sounds a bit thin).

I realise one solution is just to buy a standalone CD player and stereo amp, but I'd like some alternatives.

I could upgrade to a proper Blu Ray player, but at under £400 would this sound good with CDs as well?

What about doing this with digital music? I'd like something better that just an ipod dock for the Yamaha.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[professorhat]

Can you fit in a proper standalone CD player? I think this would yield the best results for the least cash i.e. just the player plugged into the Yamaha amp.

Alternatively, as a potentially much cheaper upgrade, try ripping a CD to the PS3's hard drive in WAV format - it will sound a lot better than playing the CD directly. If it works for you, you can then just upgrade the internal hard drive on the PS3 and have all your CDs at the touch of a button.

ÿ

 

[whiteyav]

Surely playing the CD directly will sound better?

 

[professorhat]

Not in this case no because the CD transport in the PS3 is pretty lousy when it comes to timing and all the other important hi--fi aspects i.e. things that all DVD players / BD players tend to be lousy at when it comes to playing CDs.

However, rip to lossless on the hard drive and those problems go away.ÿ

ÿ

 

[Big Aura]

prof - am curious. What does it say on your avatar?!

 

[professorhat]

Well, probably easiest to show you:

I'm sure that explains everything.

 

[Big Aura]

hah. probably - except my rubbish work PC only shows 1/2 the images... Will have proper look-see when I get home. Don't spoil it for me!!!

 

[professorhat]

Not much to spoil! If you like your Sci-fi, you may get it, otherwise it'll just seem plain madness.

ÿ

 

[JacktheHead]

If your PS3 has a digital output why not try adding a Cambridge audio dac magic. You would need to attach an optical/coax to the box and then use some analogue outputs to connect to your amp. If you then run your amp in pure direct mode then you will hear great benefits.

The two Dacs in the Dac are featured in CD players costing £800. Since I have added this to my system the sound has been fantastic, I dont need to add a new CD player. Your speakers aswell will be very grateful to have really detailed sound to use.

It will cost around £200, you can borrow one from Richer sounds on a trial basis and if your not convinced you can give it back. I think this is the most cost effective upgrade for your system.

 

[d4v3pum4]

Before splashing any money, have you considered adjusting your speaker's positioning or the room acoustics? How is the room furnished etc.? How long have you had the system as it may still be bedding in (unless of course you're deeply unhappy with the 2.0 performance).

 

[Big Aura]

didn't get home until the wee small hours, so check it this morning. I don't get it.

But my sci-fi interests are decidedly mainstream!

 

[pete321]

This is something I want to achieve. A CD player is not the answer for me because all my music is ripped to WMA Lossless on my HTPC and plays back via HDMI into my Onkyo 905. Even in Pure Audio or Direct modes on the amp, the music still sounds too lean and flat, interestingly, when I ripped a couple of songs to WAV, put them on a USB stick and stuck that directly into my Onkyo, the sound was greatly improved. Problem is I need to be able to create playlists on-the-fly and therefore Windows Media Centre is the only solution.

I plan to upgrade my speakers to probably either the MA RS6's or B&W 684's, I thought about a DAC but was advised that I probably wouldn't notice that amount of difference over the Onkyo amp (I might try the Richer Sounds trial option though). To be honest I think the only way to improve will be to get a musical surround amp like the Arcam AVR600, but that's a lot of dosh!

 

[whiteyav]

professorhat:

Not in this case no because the CD transport in the PS3 is pretty lousy when it comes to timing and all the other important hi--fi aspects i.e. things that all DVD players / BD players tend to be lousy at when it comes to playing CDs.

However, rip to lossless on the hard drive and those problems go away.

So how does playing lossless (or whatever the highest rip rate on the PS3 is) from the hard drive compare to a half decent CD player? I have tried ripping a CD to the PS3 hard drive at the highest rate, and comparing that to playing the same CD in the PS3, outputting via optical and playing it in two channel output on my av receiver, and I'm sure the CD sounds better. I will have another listen though.

Also I have tried wireless streaming from my laptop to the PS3, with a lossless file, and outputting it the same way, and I'm sure the CD sounds better. Do you lose quality when wireless streaming?

 

[magicshaunson]

Thank you to everyone. All sound like excellent suggestions.

I think in the longer term I'd like to use the PS3 for gaming only. I don't think it's a competent Blu Ray player (The Matrix was better on DVD), nor a decent CD player.

I think in the short term I'll try Yamaha's own ipod dock. Many hifi dealers I've been to are trying to sell me the Sonos kit. Certainly seems to solve a lot of problems, but I really do want to hear the very best my speakers can muster. Plus it seems a bit pricey.

Is this the best way to listen to my CDs and MP3s without a discernable loss in quality? Or should I consider a DAC? How would this then connect to, say, my laptop and then the speakers?

 

[Gerrardasnails]

magicshaunson:
Thank you to everyone. All sound like excellent suggestions.

I think in the longer term I'd like to use the PS3 for gaming only. I don't think it's a competent Blu Ray player (The Matrix was better on DVD), nor a decent CD player.

I think in the short term I'll try Yamaha's own ipod dock. Many hifi dealers I've been to are trying to sell me the Sonos kit. Certainly seems to solve a lot of problems, but I really do want to hear the very best my speakers can muster. Plus it seems a bit pricey.

Is this the best way to listen to my CDs and MP3s without a discernable loss in quality? Or should I consider a DAC? How would this then connect to, say, my laptop and then the speakers?

No, the Ipod dock would not be great and won't get the best out of your speakers. Out of interest, how are you connecting the PS3 to your Yamaha to listen to music? A DAC would be the best way of improving your source but a stereo amp would take it to the next level.

 

[Anonymous]

Can I ask where you managed to source your 863 from?

 

[magicshaunson]

Optical. Why? Is there a better way?

 

[magicshaunson]

Last one out of the Home Cinema centre Edinburgh. Sorry!

 

[professorhat]

whiteyav:I have tried ripping a CD to the PS3 hard drive at the highest rate, and comparing that to playing the same CD in the PS3, outputting via optical and playing it in two channel output on my av receiver, and I'm sure the CD sounds better. I will have another listen though.
ÿAlso I have tried wireless streaming from my laptop to the PS3, with a lossless file, and outputting it the same way, and I'm sure the CD sounds better. Do you lose quality when wireless streaming?

Well, I should have added a qualifier. Basically, most people who've tried it normally prefer the ripped versions of the songs compared to playing from the CD.

But of course if you prefer the CD direct then that's absolutely the way you should listen - it's all about what sounds right to you. My advice really for the OP was to try out ripping and see if it improved things - if it did, it could be the cheapest upgrade he could do.ÿ

However, if you don't want to rip the CDs, probably a DAC / stereo amplifier is the way forward. The Yamaha has preouts so you can hook the stereo amp to the Yamaha and still have the same front speakers run the hi-fi part as well as your home cinema.ÿ

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Gerrardasnails:magicshaunson:
Thank you to everyone. All sound like excellent suggestions.

I think in the longer term I'd like to use the PS3 for gaming only. I don't think it's a competent Blu Ray player (The Matrix was better on DVD), nor a decent CD player.

I think in the short term I'll try Yamaha's own ipod dock. Many hifi dealers I've been to are trying to sell me the Sonos kit. Certainly seems to solve a lot of problems, but I really do want to hear the very best my speakers can muster. Plus it seems a bit pricey.

Is this the best way to listen to my CDs and MP3s without a discernable loss in quality? Or should I consider a DAC? How would this then connect to, say, my laptop and then the speakers?

No, the Ipod dock would not be great and won't get the best out of your speakers. Out of interest, how are you connecting the PS3 to your Yamaha to listen to music? A DAC would be the best way of improving your source but a stereo amp would take it to the next level.

Hi Gerrardasnails,
I'm thinking about getting the Dacmagic although I will need to get something like what you have
the media extender to benifit from it to my AV receiver. I understand what the DAC does and the output will just be performed by the receiver power amps. If the DAC goes into a dedicated stereo amp, then the A-D conversion has already been done like with the Av receiver, does the stereo amp do more than just outout via it's power amps?

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Del Smith:Gerrardasnails:magicshaunson:
Thank you to everyone. All sound like excellent suggestions.

I think in the longer term I'd like to use the PS3 for gaming only. I don't think it's a competent Blu Ray player (The Matrix was better on DVD), nor a decent CD player.

I think in the short term I'll try Yamaha's own ipod dock. Many hifi dealers I've been to are trying to sell me the Sonos kit. Certainly seems to solve a lot of problems, but I really do want to hear the very best my speakers can muster. Plus it seems a bit pricey.

Is this the best way to listen to my CDs and MP3s without a discernable loss in quality? Or should I consider a DAC? How would this then connect to, say, my laptop and then the speakers?

No, the Ipod dock would not be great and won't get the best out of your speakers. Out of interest, how are you connecting the PS3 to your Yamaha to listen to music? A DAC would be the best way of improving your source but a stereo amp would take it to the next level.

Hi Gerrardasnails,
I'm thinking about getting the Dacmagic although I will need to get something like what you have
the media extender to benifit from it to my AV receiver. I understand what the DAC does and the output will just be performed by the receiver power amps. If the DAC goes into a dedicated stereo amp, then the A-D conversion has already been done like with the Av receiver, does the stereo amp do more than just outout via it's power amps?

I think I understand what you are saying. The amp still does more than just power the feed. The DAC converts the digital signal to analogue and then the amp processes that and delivers the sound and power to the speaker. You have a very good receiver, not sure how good it is in stereo. I would try the DAC with your receiver first and see what you think. If you are not impressed, a good stereo amp (at least £600-700) would definitely sound nice with your system.

 

[Anonymous]

Gerrardasnails:Del Smith:Gerrardasnails:magicshaunson:
Thank you to everyone. All sound like excellent suggestions.

I think in the longer term I'd like to use the PS3 for gaming only. I don't think it's a competent Blu Ray player (The Matrix was better on DVD), nor a decent CD player.

I think in the short term I'll try Yamaha's own ipod dock. Many hifi dealers I've been to are trying to sell me the Sonos kit. Certainly seems to solve a lot of problems, but I really do want to hear the very best my speakers can muster. Plus it seems a bit pricey.

Is this the best way to listen to my CDs and MP3s without a discernable loss in quality? Or should I consider a DAC? How would this then connect to, say, my laptop and then the speakers?

No, the Ipod dock would not be great and won't get the best out of your speakers. Out of interest, how are you connecting the PS3 to your Yamaha to listen to music? A DAC would be the best way of improving your source but a stereo amp would take it to the next level.

Hi Gerrardasnails,
I'm thinking about getting the Dacmagic although I will need to get something like what you have
the media extender to benifit from it to my AV receiver. I understand what the DAC does and the output will just be performed by the receiver power amps. If the DAC goes into a dedicated stereo amp, then the A-D conversion has already been done like with the Av receiver, does the stereo amp do more than just outout via it's power amps?

I think I understand what you are saying. The amp still does more than just power the feed. The DAC converts the digital signal to analogue and then the amp processes that and delivers the sound and power to the speaker. You have a very good receiver, not sure how good it is in stereo. I would try the DAC with your receiver first and see what you think. If you are not impressed, a good stereo amp (at least £600-700) would definitely sound nice with your system.
Thanks, I meant D-A conversion but I can see you knew what I was saying.
The stereo is ok, better than my old receiver but some material sounds dreadfull. I think your right about trying the DAC first, even if it just improves the music television channels as I've stopped using them due to my internet radio sounding much better.
The dillema is if it doesn't improve things then that's £200 that could go towards a dedicated amp.

Cheers.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Del Smith:Gerrardasnails:Del Smith:Gerrardasnails:magicshaunson:
Thank you to everyone. All sound like excellent suggestions.

I think in the longer term I'd like to use the PS3 for gaming only. I don't think it's a competent Blu Ray player (The Matrix was better on DVD), nor a decent CD player.

I think in the short term I'll try Yamaha's own ipod dock. Many hifi dealers I've been to are trying to sell me the Sonos kit. Certainly seems to solve a lot of problems, but I really do want to hear the very best my speakers can muster. Plus it seems a bit pricey.

Is this the best way to listen to my CDs and MP3s without a discernable loss in quality? Or should I consider a DAC? How would this then connect to, say, my laptop and then the speakers?

No, the Ipod dock would not be great and won't get the best out of your speakers. Out of interest, how are you connecting the PS3 to your Yamaha to listen to music? A DAC would be the best way of improving your source but a stereo amp would take it to the next level.

Hi Gerrardasnails,
I'm thinking about getting the Dacmagic although I will need to get something like what you have
the media extender to benifit from it to my AV receiver. I understand what the DAC does and the output will just be performed by the receiver power amps. If the DAC goes into a dedicated stereo amp, then the A-D conversion has already been done like with the Av receiver, does the stereo amp do more than just outout via it's power amps?

I think I understand what you are saying. The amp still does more than just power the feed. The DAC converts the digital signal to analogue and then the amp processes that and delivers the sound and power to the speaker. You have a very good receiver, not sure how good it is in stereo. I would try the DAC with your receiver first and see what you think. If you are not impressed, a good stereo amp (at least £600-700) would definitely sound nice with your system.
Thanks, I meant D-A conversion but I can see you knew what I was saying.
The stereo is ok, better than my old receiver but some material sounds dreadfull. I think your right about trying the DAC first, even if it just improves the music television channels as I've stopped using them due to my internet radio sounding much better.
The dillema is if it doesn't improve things then that's £200 that could go towards a dedicated amp.

Cheers.

Let us know how you get on. I listen to radio through Sky HD with the DacMagic and it's brilliant. Also MTV HD and the other music channels (Jools) all sound great. But my stereo amp is very good to and offers a balanced connection as well.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I got myself a Dacmagic yesterday and hooked it up last night, I can only try it with the Marantz and Sky for now.
What's handy is there is a loop through on the digital so I connected that up as well so I could flick between the Analogue and Digital to compare.
What's also good is the Receiver displays 192khz in analogue mode so I can see the upsampling is working.
So far with my trials I've not found any benefit on the Sky music channels or radio, but I think is due to the signal being heavily compressed, others may be able to clarify.
I must say I'm pleased with the result from the CD player and this should be simular to the result once the NAS is connected to it.
On my setup I generally use the Sub to add a little bass and it's become annoying during some tracks at times with the odd rumble, with the DAC fitted the rumble has gone and what I get is a more smooth bass and blends nicely with the speakers I can hear more detail as well.
I'm sure a dedicated stereo amp will bring this out even more.