How to add warmth

juhunio

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Time for my latest stupid question

I've got a Naim Nait 5si and Rega Elex-R on home demo for the weekend, with a pair of Spendor A5Rs. My source is a Rega RP3.

Irrespective of the varying characteristics of the amps (I reckon I'm favouring the Rega, which while less 'exciting' just sounds more 'liveable with' than the Naim) I am finding the sound very....digital? I remember vinyl sounding warm and organic 20 years ago, but ever since coming back to it with the Rega deck (and a previous Marantz/MA combo) I feel like it has lost some of that.

The detail, precision and clarity is all wonderful, and there's plenty of bass there too. If anything, it's the lower end of middle that's missing. Cymbals and guitars all sound great, but vocals occasionally seem harsh. The Rega is better than the Nait - I sometimes needed to turn the Rega down, wheras I often wanted to throw the Nait out of the window.

So, my stupid question, bearing in mind I reckon I am going to go with the Elex-R/A5r combo...

Is it possible to add 'warmth/organic/lower mid range' to a vinyl-based set up?

Is there a phono stage known for it?

Are there cartridges that do different, warmer, things to the elys/exact rega options?

Is speaker cable a myth or can it help 'colour' sound?

Is the upgraded rig just showing any inadequacies of the RP3?

Actually, that's five stupid questions. In for a penny....
 

MeanandGreen

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Are you sure it's not the records themselves?

Something I've noticed is that vocals especially with some vinyls can sound a bit thin and raspy, particularly female vocals. Yet some sound incredibly good depending on the condition and the pressing quality.
 

drummerman

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There are so many ways of changing sound with turntables its almost impossible to know where to start. Factor in that you can't usually audition cartridges (unless you find a dealer which specialises in vinyl systems) making blanket recommendations is fraught with potential problems.

I don't have a rega table or cartridge but they universally seem to have a reputation for fine rythm and detail but not warmth. I'd hazard a guess that is because the arms are generally well damped but have that typical rega 'zing' up top as can be seen when the arms are measured.

Short of replacing the table (and arm) you could try either a Nagaoka or, for less money, a Shure M97XE. That is a very fine cartridge with good bass/lower mid but a slightly rolled of top (I have one but not use it at present). To extend those top frequencies you need to load the cartridge properly with an adjustable phono stage (it should have been properly set up without resorting to that but that's another story). Anyways, for your problem that probably won't be an issue but could actually be the solution. - It is a very fine cartridge, comes superbly packaged and can be upgraded with gyger and shibata stilyi if ever you fancy that.

However, I would first try and play with downforce. Increase it (even slightly beyond maximum weight, it won't damage your vinyl). This will enhance lower frequencies and take some of the treble sting out.

No guarantees that will cure the issue but worth a try before spending money. A set of decent digital scales will make life easier here.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.
 

ifor

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MeanandGreen said:
Are you sure it's not the records themselves?

Something I've noticed is that vocals especially with some vinyls can sound a bit thin and raspy, particularly female vocals. Yet some sound incredibly good depending on the condition and the pressing quality.
There is no such word as vinyls.
 

MeanandGreen

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ifor said:
MeanandGreen said:
Are you sure it's not the records themselves?

Something I've noticed is that vocals especially with some vinyls can sound a bit thin and raspy, particularly female vocals. Yet some sound incredibly good depending on the condition and the pressing quality.
There is no such word as vinyls.

Well done for spotting that *good*
 

juhunio

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Al ears said:
....and speaker cables are not a myth, they do exist :)

I guess I was more referring to their effects on sound quality rather than their similarities to unicorns

Can a length of cable really open sound up, or close it down? calm brightness, or add warmth?

Or is it all just one big scam? *unknw*
 

juhunio

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drummerman said:
There are so many ways of changing sound with turntables its almost impossible to know where to start. Factor in that you can't usually audition cartridges (unless you find a dealer which specialises in vinyl systems) making blanket recommendations is fraught with potential problems.

I don't have a rega table or cartridge but they universally seem to have a reputation for fine rythm and detail but not warmth. I'd hazard a guess that is because the arms are generally well damped but have that typical rega 'zing' up top as can be seen when the arms are measured.

Short of replacing the table (and arm) you could try either a Nagaoka or, for less money, a Shure M97XE. That is a very fine cartridge with good bass/lower mid but a slightly rolled of top (I have one but not use it at present). To extend those top frequencies you need to load the cartridge properly with an adjustable phono stage (it should have been properly set up without resorting to that but that's another story). Anyways, for your problem that probably won't be an issue but could actually be the solution. - It is a very fine cartridge, comes superbly packaged and can be upgraded with gyger and shibata stilyi if ever you fancy that.

However, I would first try and play with downforce. Increase it (even slightly beyond maximum weight, it won't damage your vinyl). This will enhance lower frequencies and take some of the treble sting out.

No guarantees that will cure the issue but worth a try before spending money. A set of decent digital scales will make life easier here.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

I will give the downforce adjustment a go, set of scales are en route...
 

juhunio

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Remove floor standing speakers and naim electronics

Add Arcam FMJ A19 and KEF LS50s

bingo

warm and happy-making like hot chocolate on a snowy day

If anything, a tad too warm, too laid back. Too chocolatey!

Going to see if the Elex-R is the shot of brandy this needs to just perk it up a little

but the big lesson for me here is that, for my ears, standmounts > floorstanders
 

stevebrock

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lost the jyst of this thread!

Have you purchased the Elex R? Great phono stage in the Elex R

Take a look at the best Nagaoka cartridge you can afford - btw your RP3 is more than adequate with your other boxes.

Enjoy
 

juhunio

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stevebrock said:
lost the jyst of this thread!

Have you purchased the Elex R? Great phono stage in the Elex R

Take a look at the best Nagaoka cartridge you can afford - btw your RP3 is more than adequate with your other boxes.

Enjoy

Hi Steve

Yes, sorry, I did let it wander a bit

The main jyst was I was going through a lot of trial and error demos, both in store and at home, with various levels of amp and floorstanding speakers, but found it all bloody hard listening and was starting to get a bit desperate. I was just testing too much, too quickly, and started to lose it a bit *dash1*

Anyway, the upshot was I tried the FMJA19 again but with standmounts rather than floorstanders, and loved it. It seems there's just something about floorstanders that's uncomfortable to my ears, especially when driven by Naim and Rega amps. The switch to the Arcam amp, with standmount speakers, delivered just the quality-but-comfortable listen I was after.

On testing, I preferred the LS50s to the B&W685s2, but wondered if the combo with the A19 was a little too laid back, so tested at home with the Elex-R. Which is where I left off last time...

The test results were that I just found it hard work again. Better than through floorstanders (B&W683 and Spendor A5r both tested), but not as warm and enjoyable as the A19.

so, I've now ordered the A19 and LS50, and upgraded my TT to an RP6. I'm going to try it with the QED XT40 speaker cable to see if that loosens it up a bit too. Picking it all up tomorrow morning! *music2*

Got there in the end, but it was a bit of a rambling journey. My demos, and my posts! *biggrin*

Thanks to you and everyone else who read and commented along the way

cheers, Matt
 

kikiso

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I have experimented with different turntable mats and VTA adjustments and found that on my particular set-up I get more "warmth" by decreasing the VTA angle slightly. I've done this by both adding a VTA adjuster to my Rega P25 and/or changing the turntable mat. I have also just added a couple of panels from GIK Acoustics to my room as it lacks carpet and soft furnishings and the change in the sound has been amazing.

I also changed to a Nagaoka MP200 months ago and this indeed is wamr sounding. I changed from an Ortofon blue so not able to say if this would be warmer than the Elsys.
 

MaxD

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MeanandGreen said:
Are you sure it's not the records themselves?

Something I've noticed is that vocals especially with some vinyls can sound a bit thin and raspy, particularly female vocals. Yet some sound incredibly good depending on the condition and the pressing quality.

+ 1
 

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