Put on the music you like and turn up the volume to the loudest you listen and then turn it up some more.If it does that without clipping then the amp is powerful enough.A system is only as good as its weakest link so all components in the chain need to be good to get good sound.The best speakers in the world wont reproduce detail if its not fed it in the first place.You need a good front end and a amp with enough power and resolution to pass onto the speakers.
Alec
Well-known member
Ashley James:By the time the average male reaches 35 his hearing will have lost a considerable amount of sensitivity at 3kHz...
Oh, how terribly age-ist.
Ahem. Scuse me, seem to have something stuck in my cheek...
Oh, how terribly age-ist.
Ahem. Scuse me, seem to have something stuck in my cheek...
Ashley James:John
I'm afraid that you are mistaken because Bass extension is a function of sensitivity and diaphragm diameter, so a 15" with 99dB/W/M will not have any more bass extension than a 6.5" drive unit of 87 dB/W/M.
Diameter of what (voice coil?) You're not making sense (to me anyway)
What about cabinet tuning etc..
I'm afraid that you are mistaken because Bass extension is a function of sensitivity and diaphragm diameter, so a 15" with 99dB/W/M will not have any more bass extension than a 6.5" drive unit of 87 dB/W/M.
Diameter of what (voice coil?) You're not making sense (to me anyway)
What about cabinet tuning etc..
I have some pmc tb2 + that are the same size as active avi speakers yet my pmc go down to 40 hz were the avi can only manage 65 hz.Then you have the pmc fb1 same drivers as mine but are floor standing and they go down to 28 hz. http://www.pmc-speakers.com/product.php?mode=view&pid=173&&show=spec a bigger driver in a bigger box will always shift more air and produce a bigger sound with deeper fuller bass extension.If mr james thinks his active avi speakers can produce the same bass performance as tannoy westminsters im afraid he is mistaken they go down to 18 hz.
Alec
Well-known member
Don Guess:Exactly Mr Dolan. You've hit the nail on the head. I thought I was going crazy for a minute.
You have gone from talking about overall sound quality to bass extension, and i think you think no one has noticed the transition.
Are you able to point out where Ashley made claims about the bass extension of his speakers in this thread?
You have gone from talking about overall sound quality to bass extension, and i think you think no one has noticed the transition.
Are you able to point out where Ashley made claims about the bass extension of his speakers in this thread?
al7478:
Don Guess:Exactly Mr Dolan. You've hit the nail on the head. I thought I was going crazy for a minute.
You have gone from talking about overall sound quality to bass extension, and i think you think no one has noticed the transition.
Are you able to point out where Ashley made claims about the bass extension of his speakers in this thread?
I haven't once mentioned Ashley's speakers matey. If you're going to quote other posts make sure you get your attributions correct and don't presume to know what I'm thinking. Thank you.
Don Guess:Exactly Mr Dolan. You've hit the nail on the head. I thought I was going crazy for a minute.
You have gone from talking about overall sound quality to bass extension, and i think you think no one has noticed the transition.
Are you able to point out where Ashley made claims about the bass extension of his speakers in this thread?
I haven't once mentioned Ashley's speakers matey. If you're going to quote other posts make sure you get your attributions correct and don't presume to know what I'm thinking. Thank you.
Alec
Well-known member
Don Guess:al7478:
Don Guess:Exactly Mr Dolan. You've hit the nail on the head. I thought I was going crazy for a minute.
You have gone from talking about overall sound quality to bass extension, and i think you think no one has noticed the transition.
Are you able to point out where Ashley made claims about the bass extension of his speakers in this thread?
I haven't once mentioned Ashley's speakers matey. If you're going to quote other posts make sure you get your attributions correct and don't presume to know what I'm thinking. Thank you.
Good point well made, just checking you're keeping up. Sincere apologies.
I put the same point to Mr Dolan.
And please dont call me matey.
Thankyou.
Don Guess:Exactly Mr Dolan. You've hit the nail on the head. I thought I was going crazy for a minute.
You have gone from talking about overall sound quality to bass extension, and i think you think no one has noticed the transition.
Are you able to point out where Ashley made claims about the bass extension of his speakers in this thread?
I haven't once mentioned Ashley's speakers matey. If you're going to quote other posts make sure you get your attributions correct and don't presume to know what I'm thinking. Thank you.
Good point well made, just checking you're keeping up. Sincere apologies.
I put the same point to Mr Dolan.
And please dont call me matey.
Thankyou.
idc
Well-known member
The overall bass extension winners dressed for the occasion of their prize giving................................
Mr james said I'm afraid that you are mistaken because Bass extension is a function of sensitivity and diaphragm diameter, so a 15" with 99dB/W/M will not have any more bass extension than a 6.5" drive unit of 87 dB/W/M. Looks like he is claiming a 99db speaker with 15 inch drivers wont have anymore bass extension than a speaker with 6.5 inch driver to me.
al7478:Don Guess:al7478:
Don Guess:Exactly Mr Dolan. You've hit the nail on the head. I thought I was going crazy for a minute.
You have gone from talking about overall sound quality to bass extension, and i think you think no one has noticed the transition.
Are you able to point out where Ashley made claims about the bass extension of his speakers in this thread?
I haven't once mentioned Ashley's speakers matey. If you're going to quote other posts make sure you get your attributions correct and don't presume to know what I'm thinking. Thank you.
Good point well made, just checking you're keeping up. Sincere apologies.
I put the same point to Mr Dolan.
And please dont call me matey.
Thankyou.
Fair enough. Sorry for being a bit aggressive.
Don Guess:Exactly Mr Dolan. You've hit the nail on the head. I thought I was going crazy for a minute.
You have gone from talking about overall sound quality to bass extension, and i think you think no one has noticed the transition.
Are you able to point out where Ashley made claims about the bass extension of his speakers in this thread?
I haven't once mentioned Ashley's speakers matey. If you're going to quote other posts make sure you get your attributions correct and don't presume to know what I'm thinking. Thank you.
Good point well made, just checking you're keeping up. Sincere apologies.
I put the same point to Mr Dolan.
And please dont call me matey.
Thankyou.
Fair enough. Sorry for being a bit aggressive.
Ashley just makes me laugh. There's only one correct way of doing things obviously, the AVI way. And everyone else is a deaf idiot.
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matthewpiano
Well-known member
Ashley James:Don Guess:Ashley James:Bigger amps always sound better
You should have been at the Scalford Hall Show. The best sound by far was a 6 watt single ended valve amp into some big Tannoys..
I'm sorry but that cannot be for a million engineering reasons, however you may have liked that particular sound.
Subjective evaluation is dangerous IMO in that it removes the yardsticks that we need to assess good hi fi.
Ash
Oh what a load of absolutely ridiculous rubbish. Subjective evaluation is all we have in our day to day listening and, ultimately, its all that really matters. If you like the way something sounds its right for you, it you don't it is wrong. Music itself is a very subjective thing and, ultimately, music is the only reason for hi-fi's existence.
If you wish to live in a world based only on objectivity and scientific measurement you are welcome to it. For many of us, the music, and our enjoyment of that music, comes first.
You should have been at the Scalford Hall Show. The best sound by far was a 6 watt single ended valve amp into some big Tannoys..
I'm sorry but that cannot be for a million engineering reasons, however you may have liked that particular sound.
Subjective evaluation is dangerous IMO in that it removes the yardsticks that we need to assess good hi fi.
Ash
Oh what a load of absolutely ridiculous rubbish. Subjective evaluation is all we have in our day to day listening and, ultimately, its all that really matters. If you like the way something sounds its right for you, it you don't it is wrong. Music itself is a very subjective thing and, ultimately, music is the only reason for hi-fi's existence.
If you wish to live in a world based only on objectivity and scientific measurement you are welcome to it. For many of us, the music, and our enjoyment of that music, comes first.
matthewpiano:Ashley James:Don Guess:Ashley James:Bigger amps always sound better You should have been at the Scalford Hall Show. The best sound by far was a 6 watt single ended valve amp into some big Tannoys.. I'm sorry but that cannot be for a million engineering reasons, however you may have liked that particular sound. Subjective evaluation is dangerous IMO in that it removes the yardsticks that we need to assess good hi fi. Ash Oh what a load of absolutely ridiculous rubbish. Subjective evaluation is all we have in our day to day listening and, ultimately, its all that really matters. If you like the way something sounds its right for you, it you don't it is wrong. Music itself is a very subjective thing and, ultimately, music is the only reason for hi-fi's existence. If you wish to live in a world based only on objectivity and scientific measurement you are welcome to it. For many of us, the music, and our enjoyment of that music, comes first.Well said sir.
idc
Well-known member
matthewpiano:Ashley James:Don Guess:Ashley James:Bigger amps always sound better You should have been at the Scalford Hall Show. The best sound by far was a 6 watt single ended valve amp into some big Tannoys.. I'm sorry but that cannot be for a million engineering reasons, however you may have liked that particular sound. Subjective evaluation is dangerous IMO in that it removes the yardsticks that we need to assess good hi fi. Ash Oh what a load of absolutely ridiculous rubbish. Subjective evaluation is all we have in our day to day listening and, ultimately, its all that really matters. If you like the way something sounds its right for you, it you don't it is wrong. Music itself is a very subjective thing and, ultimately, music is the only reason for hi-fi's existence. If you wish to live in a world based only on objectivity and scientific measurement you are welcome to it. For many of us, the music, and our enjoyment of that music, comes first.
AVI sell yardsticks at a very reasonable £583 for the one. They are handbuilt to the the most exacting standards and can measure anything from cable conductivity to magnetic resonances to Ashley levels of tolerance, the worlds most tolerant tolerances in the world. They are way beyond what the human ear can manage, but the local bat population have been known to gather and enjoy a light jazz session of an evening.
AVI sell yardsticks at a very reasonable £583 for the one. They are handbuilt to the the most exacting standards and can measure anything from cable conductivity to magnetic resonances to Ashley levels of tolerance, the worlds most tolerant tolerances in the world. They are way beyond what the human ear can manage, but the local bat population have been known to gather and enjoy a light jazz session of an evening.
There will always be people out there for whom the stats on paper will be a major contributing factor - if the science says it, it must be right. On the other hand, we don't listen to music by looking at the album cover and working out what the thing sounds like. We need to play it back. It wouldn't be the first time, nor will it be the last that a well specced item has been shown the door by a 'lesser' one. The science isn't the be all and end all, no matter what the numbers on the page say.
That's not audiophile snobbery to me, just real-world thinking, or even plain old experience.
Again, as I'd put up on another thread a week or so back, I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's been attracted by a product that is rated highly on paper, but the subsequent listening experience was a disappointment against another item (dare I suggest, a "lesser" one).
That's not audiophile snobbery to me, just real-world thinking, or even plain old experience.
Again, as I'd put up on another thread a week or so back, I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's been attracted by a product that is rated highly on paper, but the subsequent listening experience was a disappointment against another item (dare I suggest, a "lesser" one).
idc:
matthewpiano:Ashley James:Don Guess:Ashley James:Bigger amps always sound better You should have been at the Scalford Hall Show. The best sound by far was a 6 watt single ended valve amp into some big Tannoys.. I'm sorry but that cannot be for a million engineering reasons, however you may have liked that particular sound. Subjective evaluation is dangerous IMO in that it removes the yardsticks that we need to assess good hi fi. Ash Oh what a load of absolutely ridiculous rubbish. Subjective evaluation is all we have in our day to day listening and, ultimately, its all that really matters. If you like the way something sounds its right for you, it you don't it is wrong. Music itself is a very subjective thing and, ultimately, music is the only reason for hi-fi's existence. If you wish to live in a world based only on objectivity and scientific measurement you are welcome to it. For many of us, the music, and our enjoyment of that music, comes first.
AVI sell yardsticks at a very reasonable £583 for the one. They are handbuilt to the the most exacting standards and can measure anything from cable conductivity to magnetic resonances to Ashley levels of tolerance, the worlds most tolerant tolerances in the world. They are way beyond what the human ear can manage, but the local bat population have been known to gather and enjoy a light jazz session of an evening.
'Tolerance' isn't a word I would include in the same sentence as 'Ashley James'. However, 'Salesman', and a bad one at that, is.
It's a pity as I am a fan of the Neutron.
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matthewpiano:Ashley James:Don Guess:Ashley James:Bigger amps always sound better You should have been at the Scalford Hall Show. The best sound by far was a 6 watt single ended valve amp into some big Tannoys.. I'm sorry but that cannot be for a million engineering reasons, however you may have liked that particular sound. Subjective evaluation is dangerous IMO in that it removes the yardsticks that we need to assess good hi fi. Ash Oh what a load of absolutely ridiculous rubbish. Subjective evaluation is all we have in our day to day listening and, ultimately, its all that really matters. If you like the way something sounds its right for you, it you don't it is wrong. Music itself is a very subjective thing and, ultimately, music is the only reason for hi-fi's existence. If you wish to live in a world based only on objectivity and scientific measurement you are welcome to it. For many of us, the music, and our enjoyment of that music, comes first.
AVI sell yardsticks at a very reasonable £583 for the one. They are handbuilt to the the most exacting standards and can measure anything from cable conductivity to magnetic resonances to Ashley levels of tolerance, the worlds most tolerant tolerances in the world. They are way beyond what the human ear can manage, but the local bat population have been known to gather and enjoy a light jazz session of an evening.
'Tolerance' isn't a word I would include in the same sentence as 'Ashley James'. However, 'Salesman', and a bad one at that, is.
It's a pity as I am a fan of the Neutron.
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To answer the original post, I think it's an iffy logic IMO, though you're welcome to see things that way. It might sound a certain way, but the speakers won't make it sound good, for digital, the amp would be my preferred choice of higher spend, then the source, then the boxes. For vinyl, the source, then amp, then speakers. £1k on the boxes and a fifth on the source and amp is a mismatch IMO. Dump the other two and get some good used kit at £500 each (which opens the door to some very nice equipment) and be prepared for a change. Do the homework obviously, but Shadow Audio were offering the Eastern Electric Minimax CD player for about £600 on offer the other week. Used, but barely so, that's £300 off the RRP and it's very well rated. £700 gets you a used Unison Research Unico amp.
Just a thought...!
EDIT: Incidentally - John Dolan's 401 (above) is a 1950s design which still rates as one of THE decks to have. Needs a bit of tweakery, plinths and arguably a labour of love, but no question, one of the great sources in hifi, bar very few.
Have a look at the Loricraft Audio site to see the current 501 model - you might see why turntables aren't exactly a poor relation in audio that Ashley and his ilk might have you believe...!
Just a thought...!
EDIT: Incidentally - John Dolan's 401 (above) is a 1950s design which still rates as one of THE decks to have. Needs a bit of tweakery, plinths and arguably a labour of love, but no question, one of the great sources in hifi, bar very few.
Have a look at the Loricraft Audio site to see the current 501 model - you might see why turntables aren't exactly a poor relation in audio that Ashley and his ilk might have you believe...!
idc
Well-known member
the record spot:....... we don't listen to music by looking at the album cover and working out what the thing sounds like. We need to play it back.......
I have heard of people who 'listen' by reading sheet music, as they cannot get satisfaction from listening to what they regard as flawed reproductions. I supose it is cheaper than hifi.
I have heard of people who 'listen' by reading sheet music, as they cannot get satisfaction from listening to what they regard as flawed reproductions. I supose it is cheaper than hifi.
john dolan:Which lab equipment can measure musicality.
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None, and hence why I gloss over HFN tests. Yes I read the reviews, but avoid the graphs. Utter grollocks.
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None, and hence why I gloss over HFN tests. Yes I read the reviews, but avoid the graphs. Utter grollocks.
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Messiah
Well-known member
I must admit thought that I like Ashley's input!
There are a couple of things I take into consideration about him/AVI too.
1. I have been researching his ADM 9.1's and find a lot of very positive feedback about them and hardly any negative.
2. AVI used to make some very well regarded seperates. Why would a company that had such great products leave all that behind to take the route they have without good reason and belief in what they do now is better??
Something to think about maybe??
There are a couple of things I take into consideration about him/AVI too.
1. I have been researching his ADM 9.1's and find a lot of very positive feedback about them and hardly any negative.
2. AVI used to make some very well regarded seperates. Why would a company that had such great products leave all that behind to take the route they have without good reason and belief in what they do now is better??
Something to think about maybe??
Messiah:
I must admit thought that I like Ashley's input!
There are a couple of things I take into consideration about him/AVI too.
1. I have been researching his ADM 9.1's and find a lot of very positive feedback about them and hardly any negative.
2. AVI used to make some very well regarded seperates. Why would a company that had such great products leave all that behind to take the route they have without good reason and belief in what they do now is better??
Something to think about maybe??
I have never doubted AVI as an entity, their products are superb. I can even understand why as Ashley is so tunnel visioned in his outlook that you can see why they make things sound good. I just hate the inference that everyone is wrong if they don't agree with his outlook. There's plenty of room for many different sounds in the music world, many of which can be good, if different.
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I must admit thought that I like Ashley's input!
There are a couple of things I take into consideration about him/AVI too.
1. I have been researching his ADM 9.1's and find a lot of very positive feedback about them and hardly any negative.
2. AVI used to make some very well regarded seperates. Why would a company that had such great products leave all that behind to take the route they have without good reason and belief in what they do now is better??
Something to think about maybe??
I have never doubted AVI as an entity, their products are superb. I can even understand why as Ashley is so tunnel visioned in his outlook that you can see why they make things sound good. I just hate the inference that everyone is wrong if they don't agree with his outlook. There's plenty of room for many different sounds in the music world, many of which can be good, if different.
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Nothing at all Messiah, but it's perhaps not the only way to go nor is it necessarily the best one. That's pretty different from what the science would say obviously, but that's another matter entirely!
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