How Close Do You Think We Get To The Real Thing?

[Frank Harvey]

Last I heard was a Sansui SR-222 mkII and a Pioneer PL-930. Dave is again missing the point. The bottleneck is not the table, but the vinyl media. You keep pouring money in the table to try and compensate for what are inherent flaws of the vinyl record. need to read it does that to living beings. But I can also say I've owned a decent TT and collected vinyl, also have buddies that still do, so it's nothing foreign to me. My experience just reaffirms my opinion on the subject. David wants to deny my experience and convey it as limited and flawed. Again, David fails and fails again.

Ah, the old belittling angle again. Boring. It's like the House Of Commons in here sometimes.

So let me get this straight (seeing as you've dragged up the old analogue vs digital in a non related thread) - you haven't heard a turntable made in the last 30 years? And are you saying that any old budget turntable is good enough to realise the potential of vinyl?

If the mods are going to let this guy walk all over the forums like this, baiting and provoking, it's going to get pretty sparse around here. But then, maybe that's his goal.

 

[Ajani]

Last I heard was a Sansui SR-222 mkII and a Pioneer PL-930. Dave is again missing the point. The bottleneck is not the table, but the vinyl media. You keep pouring money in the table to try and compensate for what are inherent flaws of the vinyl record. need to read it does that to living beings. But I can also say I've owned a decent TT and collected vinyl, also have buddies that still do, so it's nothing foreign to me. My experience just reaffirms my opinion on the subject. David wants to deny my experience and convey it as limited and flawed. Again, David fails and fails again.

Ah, the old belittling angle again. Boring. It's like the House Of Commons in here sometimes.

So let me get this straight (seeing as you've dragged up the old analogue vs digital in a non related thread) - you haven't heard a turntable made in the last 30 years? And are you saying that any old budget turntable is good enough to realise the potential of vinyl?

If the mods are going to let this guy walk all over the forums like this, baiting and provoking, it's going to get pretty sparse around here. But then, maybe that's his goal.

Does this site still have mods? There's a 6/7 page thread in the headphones section where only the 1st page and a half was about the actual topic, and the next 4 or so was just nasty name calling and arguing. No mods stepped in to delete all that nonsense/lock the thread.

 

[Vladimir]

I'm not sure what special mastering is required to play on low fidelity devices. Yep, I get that a producer may have a listen to how the mix sounds in his car, but then what? Does he go back to the studio and guess that he needs to boost 3khz range to compensate for something?

No, he doesn't just touch up the 3kHz freq. He boosts the loudness compression to oblivion on the whole album.

The whole it's not Jazz or classical so it's not a gourmet meal, really sounds like the typical audiophile thought process. What's next? It's not high res, so no point listening to it on anything other than a smartphone?

Bare with me with this theory of mine. Let's not make it in an argument about classes and snobs etc. I'm trying to be logical and mildly entertaining. Many times I saw audiophiles who are basically rock and pop fans dissing electronic music as something that has no musicianship or talent involved, just neverending ostinatos. Oh the irony.

I think people need to be realistic in their expectations and face the fact that all these popular genres were recorded, produced and mastered with no fidelity in mind except instant recognition and becoming a hit. They didn't even bother to make their own music a lot of the times, and ripped eachother off. Gene Simmons didn't hone his skills like Rostropovich to become rich and famous. He wore makeup and made easy to consume tweener music about procreation. (hint: "Tonight I wanna give it all to you, in the darkness...") If the artist and the studio had no fidelity in mind, why should I? To portray better what? The beat sampling machine in "***** Niggaz" or the echo/reverb machine in "I was made for loving you"? But guess what. I can portray better the natural echo from the concert hall in Boston if I used high fidelity reproduction gear.

IMO we need to stop this whining how the music industry has no consideration for the lowly audiophile. Yes, McDonalds has no consideration for my taste buds or cholesterol levels. If I want better, I'm at the wrong restaurant. A big hint, there is a ketchup bottle on each table (loudness compression).

PS - It's not just classical and instrumental jazz that is made with fidelity in mind, but also a lot of ethnic folk music, world music etc. It sounds wonderfull and worthy of the financial and mental effort of building a good high fidelity system to play it well. How about spoken word, radio dramas, audio books etc.

Roger, If you are reading this, tune to BBC Radio 3 and grow up already!

 

[Electro]

Click on each image to hear a track sample. Decide which one is a more required taste (goat cheese) and which for everyones taste buds (cheese burger). Then ask yourself, which one demands a high fidelity reproduction and which one doesn't. Do I need to get closer to Rostropovich or Gene Simmons?

On the face of it you might instantly feel (without thinking) that the Rostropovich would need a better system because it is far more sophisticated and vibrant and for many people it would be an aquired musical taste and you might expect a better "class" of listener.

Gene Simmons is a more visual maintream rocky music that appeals to many more "ordinary" people .

The irony is that you will probably need a much more expensive (powerful) system to appreciate Gene Simmons properly that the Rostopovich .

That said a good quality low distortion top class HiFi system will get more from both .*smile*

 

[Vladimir]

Click on each image to hear a track sample. Decide which one is a more required taste (goat cheese) and which for everyones taste buds (cheese burger). Then ask yourself, which one demands a high fidelity reproduction and which one doesn't. Do I need to get closer to Rostropovich or Gene Simmons?

On the face of it you might instantly feel (without thinking) that the Rostropovich would need a better system because it is far more sophisticated and vibrant and for many people it would be an aquired musical taste and you might expect a better "class" of listener.

Gene Simmons is a more visual maintream rocky music that appeals to many more "ordinary" people .

The irony is that you will probably need a much more expensive (powerful) system to appreciate Gene Simmons properly that the Rostopovich .

That said a good quality low distortion top class HiFi system will get more from both .*smile*

High powered Bose car system is audio nirvana for enjoying Gene Simmons. It's music made to play while you are driving, going somewhere, thinking of going somewhere and doing something. In a way it really is car music (like rock fans call classical elevator music). Classical and jazz want you to close your eyes, concentrate and create a theater in your mind while comfortably sitting and tune out the whole world around you. Listening during a train journey is as outdoorsey as it gets.

I think that music fidelity is genre related. Exceptions apply as usually but I'm not saying anything wildly new and innovative here.

 

[Electro]

Come on mods - one pseudo- intellectual here is just arguing - belittling - dominating threads for the sake of his own personal vendetta and self glorification against other posters. We're a bit above keyboard warrior antics on this site - but it's just plain loopy now!

tonky

Sorry I don't agree.

Vladimir forces people to look outside their own personal box , he stimulates their minds so they feel they have no choice but to respond one way or another but in the process he makes them think and educate themselves, he encourages people to learn for themselves rather than just accept the status quo.

He does play silly games now and then and sometimes goes a little OTT *smile* but I find them very entertaining .

Without Vladimir this place would be far worse off imo. *biggrin*

So chill out and enjoy your education *yes3*

 

[Vladimir]

Last I heard was a Sansui SR-222 mkII and a Pioneer PL-930. Dave is again missing the point. The bottleneck is not the table, but the vinyl media. You keep pouring money in the table to try and compensate for what are inherent flaws of the vinyl record. need to read it does that to living beings. But I can also say I've owned a decent TT and collected vinyl, also have buddies that still do, so it's nothing foreign to me. My experience just reaffirms my opinion on the subject. David wants to deny my experience and convey it as limited and flawed. Again, David fails and fails again.

Ah, the old belittling angle again. Boring. It's like the House Of Commons in here sometimes.

So let me get this straight (seeing as you've dragged up the old analogue vs digital in a non related thread) - you haven't heard a turntable made in the last 30 years? And are you saying that any old budget turntable is good enough to realise the potential of vinyl?

If the mods are going to let this guy walk all over the forums like this, baiting and provoking, it's going to get pretty sparse around here. But then, maybe that's his goal.

I appologize for that. The heat of discussion gets to me. Let's move on past it and enjoy the actual topic, which I like. And don't worry about the forum, it's very lively compared to few months back.

 

[Frank Harvey]

No answer to my two questions then?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Click on each image to hear a track sample. Decide which one is a more required taste (goat cheese) and which for everyones taste buds (cheese burger). Then ask yourself, which one demands a high fidelity reproduction and which one doesn't. Do I need to get closer to Rostropovich or Gene Simmons?

On the face of it you might instantly feel (without thinking) that the Rostropovich would need a better system because it is far more sophisticated and vibrant and for many people it would be an aquired musical taste and you might expect a better "class" of listener.

.

The irony is that you will probably need a much more expensive (powerful) system to appreciate Gene Simmons properly that the Rostopovich .

That said a good quality low distortion top class HiFi system will get more from both .*smile*

Gene Simmons is a more visual maintream rocky music that appeals to many more "ordinary" people ??? we all **** the same colour weather we are poor or rich and music tast does not come into it some people have a big tast in music from classic to heavy metal i like both so want a hifi that would give me both in sound quality for both kinds of music i am just ordinary ! like anyone on here

 

[Vladimir]

No answer to my two questions then?

If it needs repeating, no problemo.

I hear turntables that my friends and I own. No fancy Roksans sadly. Old DDs is what I get and they sound pretty damn good. Project sounded very bad (sea sickness inducing wow and flutter).

I mentioned that I think there is a threshold with TTs where you begin getting exponentially less improvements, and just get different, not better. My ears are already fooled with a SL1200 sounding as good as a CDP (minus the pops, clicks, ocassional mild wow/flutter, nasty stuf at the end tracks).

My official stance: vinyl playback sounds great, it isn't as accurate as digital, and to me hi-fi is an ever moving forward goal post of accuracy. Going back to vinyl is just that, going back to vinyl. Why is it presented as better across genres, when we all know the elephant in the room is loudness compression which is genre related?

 

[emperor's new clothes]

Back to the original question. Sterophile had the company of Graham Nash - he of the Hollies and C,S,N&Y harmonising - armed with his new album. Never heard it outside of the studio and sampled it on various high-end systems at CES. Might be of interest:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/stereophile-and-graham-nash-ces-2016#UftELBp4ScAfSVkf.97

page 5 of their reviews/news to see various systems inluding high end Chord.

 

[emperor's new clothes]

http://www.stereophile.com/category/graham-nash-ces-2016

 

[Electro]

Click on each image to hear a track sample. Decide which one is a more required taste (goat cheese) and which for everyones taste buds (cheese burger). Then ask yourself, which one demands a high fidelity reproduction and which one doesn't. Do I need to get closer to Rostropovich or Gene Simmons?

On the face of it you might instantly feel (without thinking) that the Rostropovich would need a better system because it is far more sophisticated and vibrant and for many people it would be an aquired musical taste and you might expect a better "class" of listener.

.

The irony is that you will probably need a much more expensive (powerful) system to appreciate Gene Simmons properly that the Rostopovich .

That said a good quality low distortion top class HiFi system will get more from both .*smile*

Gene Simmons is a more visual maintream rocky music that appeals to many more "ordinary" people ??? we all **** the same colour weather we are poor or rich and music tast does not come into it some people have a big tast in music from classic to heavy metal i like both so want a hifi that would give me both in sound quality for both kinds of music i am just ordinary ! like anyone on here

I was not making any personal judgements about anyones taste in music, and I apologize if my post appeared to, we are all ordinary people apart from the ones that think they are not, and they are probably wrong.*smile*

Your system is a perfect example of one that will play all types of music very well indeed.*i-m_so_happy*

 

[Electro]

http://www.stereophile.com/category/graham-nash-ces-2016

He seemed to be quite impressed with most of the systems he listened too which has to be a good indicator of sound quality .

 

[Vladimir]

Working class music is made for working class people to be entertained in their busy lives. There is no time to get educated about music and refine tastes. It needs to appeal immediately and it needs to make life better, more bearable, nicer, interesting etc. If your audience listens to you in their cars or metro trains, or on the Uni park bench, you have to adjust fidelity to suite that lifestyle. Popular genres do that, which is IMO good. Problem is when adolescent mobile Roger becomes middle aged stationary Roger and he has too much money and time on his hands, so he naturaly gets picky. "Not enough bass in my death metal!", "I want to feel Gene's tongue in my living room!" Oh dear, what shall we do... cables anyone?

How about expanding musical horizons. Or get a bike and good IEMs. Or buy a Porsche.

 

[chebby]

Working class music is made for working class people to be entertained in their busy lives.

Not exclusively.

 

[Electro]

Working class music is made for working class people to be entertained in their busy lives. There is no time to get educated about music and refine tastes. It needs to appeal immediately and it needs to make life better, more bearable, nicer, interesting etc. If your audience listens to you in their cars or metro trains, or on the Uni park bench, you have to adjust fidelity to suite that lifestyle. Popular genres do that, which is IMO good. Problem is when adolescent mobile Roger becomes middle aged stationary Roger and he has too much money and time on his hands, so he naturaly gets picky. "Not enough bass in my death metal!", "I want to feel Gene's tongue in my living room!" Oh dear, what shall we do... cables anyone?

How about expanding musical horizons. Or get a bike and good IEMs. Or buy a Porsche.

My taste in music expands every day, I am always on the lookout for something new or different .

I can't afford a new Porsche but possibly a new Porch.*biggrin*

Talking of new music check out Susanne Sundfor, I went to see her live recently and I was a least 30 years older than anyone else at the venue.*biggrin* but she was absolutely amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze9bcegcmW8

 

[Vladimir]

I enjoyed some of it inbetween the loud barking on my porch. A flock ofr sheep were passing by.
But I fully enjoyed this one! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ze9bcegcmW8

 

[Vladimir]

Good to see a naughty aristocrat feasting on common man's bread and circuses.

 

[The_Lhc]

"I want to feel Gene's tongue in my living room!"

Well I've never heard it put in quite those terms before...

 

[Vladimir]

"I want to feel Gene's tongue in my living room!"

Well I've never heard it put in quite those terms before...

Not on my silk ascot tie! Just in the room. For fidelity...

 

[Vladimir]

Good to see a naughty aristocrat feasting on common man's bread and circuses.

I am so sorry I could not help myself *biggrin*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r69ikFzUsHM

I think Blacksabbath might enjoy this one !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgQwBGe-GzM

I have seen them live too *smile*

Good timing on these guys.

 

[Electro]

Good to see a naughty aristocrat feasting on common man's bread and circuses.

I am so sorry I could not help myself *biggrin*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r69ikFzUsHM

I think Blacksabbath might enjoy this one !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1yQPhGCjPg

and this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgQwBGe-GzM

I have seen them live too *smile*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Good to see a naughty aristocrat feasting on common man's bread and circuses.

I am so sorry I could not help myself *biggrin*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r69ikFzUsHM

I think Blacksabbath might enjoy this one !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1yQPhGCjPg

and this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgQwBGe-GzM

I have seen them live too *smile*

i like the aristocrat's *music2*

 

[tonky]

Come on mods - one pseudo- intellectual here is just arguing - belittling - dominating threads for the sake of his own personal vendetta and self glorification against other posters. We're a bit above keyboard warrior antics on this site - but it's just plain loopy now!

and electro - you must be easily entertained - endlessly repetitive thread baiting - if that makes the forum "better" - well! Endless baiting, sarcasm, belittling, not respecting other people's opinions etc dominating threads ad nauseam. Last "word-itis" - childish in the extreme. That type of "education" and "entertainment" might suit you - sadly - not for me though.

tonky