Home cinema advice please!

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bigblue235

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Matty Fegan: Cofnchtr, you seem to be the only one talking sense here

Nah, you seem to be the only two not getting it
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However you make a cinema ratio fit a TV, you're losing info from the original source. Making the image fit the screen is a compromise, regardless of how it's achieved.

It doesn't really matter if it's pan and scan by the studio, tv network, whatever, the original image has to be cropped, there's no way round it.

Obviously the zoom/aspect button on your tv is a slightly crude way of doing it, but it gives you pretty much the same result
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Anonymous

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err, Matt you're ignoring what everyone is telling you. If you use the Zoom function on your tv, you get more or less the same view as if the DVD had been mastered at a 16:9 ratio. So there is no need for them to put 2 versions of the film on the disc, because your zoom button does the job of converting the widescreen version to a 16:9 version...
 

FuzzyinLondon

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Prof, I was very much the same. On a certain level, yes it was filmic snobbery on my part, but I also didn't like the way that many films were panned and scanned. It was often very crudely done by the studios.
I think a combination of two main factors has done away with the option of being able to buy Full Screen. Firstly it's the move to widescreen tvs - CRT, LCD and plasma, which has happened over the last ten years - the by-product being the falling sales of Full screen(4:3) DVDs that you mention. After all, they're not full screen anymore for many people. The second is the fact that studios are looking to cut their costs all the time and the take up of Widescreen LCDs/plasmas has allowed them to do this. As soon as they see even a slight drop in the sales of Full Screen DVDs, which they undoubtedly have done, they'll look to streamline their production lines to cut costs or re-invest those savings in producing the hi-Def versions. It's that simple. Full Screen DVDs only really took off in the States anyway. The studios weren't really that interested in producing two different versions for every foreign territory, they were more interested in making sure the American market was taken care of. It would've cost them too much and would've become too complex an operation, which is why they often sold foreign distribution rights to other companies. They made some money and it saved them a few headaches, especially as it meant they often left the hard work and expense of doing conversions for other tv systems to other companies. The beauty of Blu-Ray for the studios is that they don't have to worry about the process of interlacing and pulldown systems anymore. They leave that to the hardware manufacturers. They just scan the film to make a HD master of the film at 1080p24hz(the native film speed) and then region lock the discs for different territories and/or sell the rights for someone else to do it.
Blu-Ray is still a niche format that hasn't really entered the mainstream. A handful of people wanting to watch all their films at 16:9 isn't going to influence the strategy of the studios at this moment. However, if it does go mainstream and the demand for it grows, then the studios might respond. The problem is that people buy Blu-Ray for the quality of the picture and there's no way they're willing to compromise that. So what's the solution? Well, BR is still a growing format and and if it is widely adopted, it's still a way off. By that time 100gb BR discs will probably be a bit more commonplace and that might give the studios the space to put two top quality versions of the film on one disc. It'll be either that or some kind of software on the discs that is pre-programmed to pan and scan the disc whilst you watch it. With players becoming more and more sophisticated, I can't see why they couldn't implement that at some stage if the demand became high enough. Believe me though, they're definitely not going to pay to have the film scanned twice so you may lose a bit of quality(resolution) along the way.
 

fr0g

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Guess the only problem with zooming it in yourself, is you can't use HDMI (not on my TVs anyway), so you need to use scart.

Either way, I watch it as intended, and actually like the horizontal black bars.
As for a cinema widescreen telly... No thanks, it would be dreadful for normal viewing.

I like the balance. I like the ratio we have, and I don't mind (and prefer in fact) the black bars on a good film.

If you don't like them, buy a projector, or use a scart lead and press that horrible 'aspect' button on your remote...

*EDIT I even watch "The Simpsons" which is in 4:3, with vertical bars!
 
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Anonymous

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Er, as i said a while back when watching dvd through the hdmi this overides the ability to use any zoom function on my tv. You cannot use the zoom function on the tv.
 
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Anonymous

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There you go then, When technology gets cheaper i'll end up buying films again when viewers have the choice on which format they want to watch it on. Buy the time 100gb discs will become more commonplace i hear theres talk of Super High Defenifion (SHD) for the future.

The main point i was trying to make was that if you had to watch films with the black bars redusing the visible screen size on my 46" lcd youd be better off watching films using a projector for the greater size of picture. I took the kids to the pics to see WALLE and it was awsome in the big screen. I can't imagine getting the same effect watching it on an lcd tv. But I bet any film would be pretty good on a good 1080p projector.

I was expecting a bit more from the tv for films when i bought it. When shops show off tv's the films they have on it are always full screen, you never see them playing a film with the black bars, 'cause they are trying to show off how good the tv looks corner to corner (all the screen).
 

FuzzyinLondon

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Oh I agree with you regarding those demo discs Matty. It can be mis-leading but they are just marketing tools like you imply. At least, in today's information age, we can get the full specs on any film before we buy. I certainly wasn't trying to disparage your opinion. The whole point of this forum is opinions. The only point I was trying to hammer home is that what is available to us is often influenced by factors outside of our control. If I had the space and the money, I'd absolutely love to have a projector. It's always been a dream of mine to have a dedicated movie room with a popcorn machine in the corner. But like most people, I have to compromise. Certainly having a decent surround system has made the blow easier to take. Right now, if I had the choice of having a bigger tv at the expense of the surround system, I wouldn't trade.
 
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Anonymous

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Oops, missed the bit where you mentioned that you can't use the zoom function on your tv when receiving pictures through HDMI. Sorry about that.
Theres always the sony 52" W4000 LCD screens that should give you a widescreen picture height about the same size as a 46" full screen picture height I would think, either that or as you mention go for a projector for the full cinema experience!
 

Cofnchtr

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Hi,

Using SCART you would then lose the HD 1080 (or whatever your tv does). Using the zoom would then mean it's not 1080 also I believe?

No point buying Bluray then huh?

All I'm saying is that people want their TV's to be filled. Some want to see the film 'as the director intended' - some don't.

As it stands, we don't have a choice.

Cheers,

Cofnchtr.
 
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Anonymous

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Hi.

Still cant get used to watching films with the black bars top and bottom. Me and the wife thinks it does not look right using the full screen but when you zoom it you feel as though you are missing something. I might get used to it 'till such times as i get a good projector. Still telly is excellent for the footy though!
 
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Anonymous

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Matty Fegan:
Hi.

Still cant get used to watching films with the black bars top and
bottom. Me and the wife thinks it does not look right using the full
screen but when you zoom it you feel as though you are missing
something. I might get used to it 'till such times as i get a good
projector. Still telly is excellent for the footy though!

I'm with Prof on this one; I don't have a clue what you want anymore.
 
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Anonymous

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Just pointing out lcd tv's are not for films for me. Like it for the footy though. Think i've mentioned that in most of the posts i've entered. Just putting my opinion across.
 
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Anonymous

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It is, everyone has voiced what they have to say though, and we have worked out there is no immediate fix to your problem apart from buying a projector and a wide screen screen and suffering when you watch anything but a wide screen movie!
 

professorhat

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I also missed that you can't Zoom on the HDMI setting which I see now why your choice is limited (I've never tried it). Personally I'd also love to have a projector, just watching Aliens vs Predator Requiem on Blu-Ray the other day - even though it was a pretty poor film (a Lovefilm rental), it would really have benefitted from being on a projector screen i.e. possibly made it not quite as bad as it was! I'm also aiming for this but have some sizable debts to pay off first!
But yes, I take the point now, without the Zoom function, I can concede there is a valid reason for wanting two different version of the film - I'd only ask it doesn't go back to the days where your only choice was Full Screen as that would make me just as angry as you are now!!!
 

Cofnchtr

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Hi,

That's what this is all about - consumer choice.

I'm not saying your preference to watch with the black bars and see the whole picture as the director intended is right or wrong. The same as I am not saying my preference is right or wrong.

There's only one choice and it's black bars or no film.

I remember when 16:9 tv's were introduced and salesrooms were showing 16:9 films with the black bars. Everyone asked - what's the point in the widescreen tv when I get the same image on my ordinary tv. The tv's hadn't been set properly and if they had been shown without the black bars i.e. 16:9 full screen then perhaps a few more would have been sold?

There will be those consumers, myself included, who want to see their screen filled with picture.

Cheers,

Cofnchtr.
 

Gerrardasnails

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professorhat:I also missed that you can't Zoom on the HDMI setting which I see now why your choice is limited (I've never tried it). Personally I'd also love to have a projector, just watching Aliens vs Predator Requiem on Blu-Ray the other day - even though it was a pretty poor film (a Lovefilm rental), it would really have benefitted from being on a projector screen i.e. possibly made it not quite as bad as it was! I'm also aiming for this but have some sizable debts to pay off first!
But yes, I take the point now, without the Zoom function, I can concede there is a valid reason for wanting two different version of the film - I'd only ask it doesn't go back to the days where your only choice was Full Screen as that would make me just as angry as you are now!!!

I'm pretty sure that I can zoom with hdmi on my 2 year old LCD.
 

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