I have a 46" 1080p Sharp hd TV with blue ray player. But I'm considering getting a projector in the near future now as I dont think i'm getting the cinematic experience I was expecting. Why is it when adverts for films that come out on dvd on the tv the preview is full screen. But when you put any dvd in the machine you get the black lines top and bottom supposed cinematic look. The only thing you seem to be able to do is zoom in but that chops off some of the sides. When you are using the HDMI lead that takes away the functions of the visual formats in your menu so you have to watch it with the black lines. I take it then the best home cinema set up is to go for a projetcor?
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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
Home cinema advice please!
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Thanks for the reply, just never saw my question on the forums page. Projector it is then for watching films. It just something vendors will never tell you when you buy a tv. I wonder why tv adverts for films now out on dvd are potrayed in full screen format. Just something that would confuse and annoy every joe bloggs punter out there. Maybe shops would not sell so many tv's if the films that were being played with a price tag on them if they were all in widescreen format. In all the high street shops selling tv's i never saw a film being played in widescreen, only full screen, showing off the size of the screen...I wonder.
Well, most TVs are 16x9 format, so the screen's about 1.77 times as wide as it is deep - ie 1.77:1, Most movies are made in formats between 1.85:1 and 2.35:1, so when shown full width they will have the black bars top and bottom.
Most TVs have a zoom function to fill the screen, but of course you do then lose some content at either side of the screen.
Films trailers on TV are usually either zoomed in this way or 'panned and scanned' to suit the TV format - it used to happen a lot more in the days when all TVs were 4x3, or 1.33:1, and usually looked somewhere between horrid and comical.
Movie companies choose to release films in their original format on DVD/Blu-ray Disc a) because it's easier and b) because it lets you see the picture as the director/cinematographer intended.
Most TVs have a zoom function to fill the screen, but of course you do then lose some content at either side of the screen.
Films trailers on TV are usually either zoomed in this way or 'panned and scanned' to suit the TV format - it used to happen a lot more in the days when all TVs were 4x3, or 1.33:1, and usually looked somewhere between horrid and comical.
Movie companies choose to release films in their original format on DVD/Blu-ray Disc a) because it's easier and b) because it lets you see the picture as the director/cinematographer intended.
Cofnchtr
Well-known member
Hi,
'As the director intended' - the director intended it to be shown on the 'big screen' at a cinema which is usually 21:9 or thereabouts.
TV's are 16:9 nowadays and Bluray discs are meant to be shown on TV's (or projectors).
Why can't two editions be on the one disc? An 'as the director intended 21:9 version and a 'cropped for tv' version?
Bluray offers the space for this (3 version of Close Encounters on one disc) and a lot more people would be happier with their tv's/dvd releases.
Alternative is to start producing tv's in the 21:9 aspect ratio so we can fill the whole screen.
Cheers,
Cofnchtr.
'As the director intended' - the director intended it to be shown on the 'big screen' at a cinema which is usually 21:9 or thereabouts.
TV's are 16:9 nowadays and Bluray discs are meant to be shown on TV's (or projectors).
Why can't two editions be on the one disc? An 'as the director intended 21:9 version and a 'cropped for tv' version?
Bluray offers the space for this (3 version of Close Encounters on one disc) and a lot more people would be happier with their tv's/dvd releases.
Alternative is to start producing tv's in the 21:9 aspect ratio so we can fill the whole screen.
Cheers,
Cofnchtr.
I think they probably will make films that fill the whole screen in the future when enough people moan about it. Then I'll have to buy all the films I have for me and the kids again, but in a different format. I try to tell the kids that when i was there age I had to batter the telly to get a decent picture. Their hardship to think back on i guess would be having to sit through a good film with the image not on all of the screen.
Thanks for the info.
Matty
Thanks for the info.
Matty
Sorreltiger
Well-known member
Cofnchtr:Alternative is to start producing tv's in the 21:9 aspect ratio so we can fill the whole screen.
Would you not then have vertical black lines when watching TV programmes?
Would you not then have vertical black lines when watching TV programmes?
professorhat
Well-known member
Yup. I still don't understand why people complain about this. If you like to be able to see the film "as the director intended" i.e. with the black bars, watch the film in the standard WIDE or 16:9 aspect. If you want the film to fill the screen, use one of the Zoom options - that's what they're there for!
Yes but when you use one of the zoom functions the sides are cropped off. Theres a guy awol from each side of a group of men you see on the screen.
Maybe you could take your argument up with the director's of the world. If you don't agree with their artistic choices I'm afraid you'll have to lose some of your gents.
professorhat
Well-known member
Matty Fegan:Yes but when you use one of the zoom functions the sides are cropped off. Theres a guy awol from each side of a group of men you see on the screen.
Yes, but that's a choice you have to make... you can't see everything without having black bars and you can't fill the screen up without cropping off some of the picture. It's simple physics I'm afraid!
Yes, but that's a choice you have to make... you can't see everything without having black bars and you can't fill the screen up without cropping off some of the picture. It's simple physics I'm afraid!
Maybe the directors of the world dont have to sit down like the rest of us plebs and watch a normal telly. I bet he will be sitting with his feet up watching his films using a projector in the house how 'they intended' and you lot have all been brainwashed.
Matty Fegan:
Maybe the directors of the world dont have to sit down like the rest of us plebs and watch a normal telly.ÿ I betÿhe willÿbe sitting with his feet upÿwatching his films using a projector in the house how 'they intended' and you lot have all been brainwashed.
I'm sure there is a monumental theatre with glorious THX sound at Skywalker Ranch, however Lucas will still be watching exactly the same aspect as the rest of us plebs. As mentioned earlier, a projector is your best bet for a bigger picture but I thought we had covered that.
Maybe the directors of the world dont have to sit down like the rest of us plebs and watch a normal telly.ÿ I betÿhe willÿbe sitting with his feet upÿwatching his films using a projector in the house how 'they intended' and you lot have all been brainwashed.
I'm sure there is a monumental theatre with glorious THX sound at Skywalker Ranch, however Lucas will still be watching exactly the same aspect as the rest of us plebs. As mentioned earlier, a projector is your best bet for a bigger picture but I thought we had covered that.
professorhat
Well-known member
Matty Fegan:
Maybe the directors of the world dont have to sit down like the rest of us plebs and watch a normal telly. I bet he will be sitting with his feet up watching his films using a projector in the house how 'they intended' and you lot have all been brainwashed.
Matty, I'm confused as to what you actually want?
Do you want Full Screen versions of films to be made instead of Wide Screen? If so, then you'll suffer from the cut off portions of the screen as we've already discussed as this is the same as using the Zoom function on the TV.
Do you want TVs to be made in Wide Screen size? Okay, but then normal TV broadcasts will have black bars at the side which is hardly ideal. We could ask all TV shows to be made in Wide Screen format, but Bargain Hunt and the like don't really necessitate the panaromic screen now do they?!
Do you want all film directors to start shooting their films in standard 16:9 format? Okay, but then we lose the impact you can get with a great film in the cinema... Also, I think you'll find most film directors will tell you to get stuffed.
I'm confused, personally I think we've got just about the right balance now...
Maybe the directors of the world dont have to sit down like the rest of us plebs and watch a normal telly. I bet he will be sitting with his feet up watching his films using a projector in the house how 'they intended' and you lot have all been brainwashed.
Matty, I'm confused as to what you actually want?
Do you want Full Screen versions of films to be made instead of Wide Screen? If so, then you'll suffer from the cut off portions of the screen as we've already discussed as this is the same as using the Zoom function on the TV.
Do you want TVs to be made in Wide Screen size? Okay, but then normal TV broadcasts will have black bars at the side which is hardly ideal. We could ask all TV shows to be made in Wide Screen format, but Bargain Hunt and the like don't really necessitate the panaromic screen now do they?!
Do you want all film directors to start shooting their films in standard 16:9 format? Okay, but then we lose the impact you can get with a great film in the cinema... Also, I think you'll find most film directors will tell you to get stuffed.
I'm confused, personally I think we've got just about the right balance now...
Cofnchtr
Well-known member
Hi,
I don't think we do have a good balance.
You used to be able to buy only 4:3 films for home use. This matched the 4:3 screen of your tv.
Then widescreen versions of films were released and we were introduced to widescreen tv's. You had the choice of buying an 'ordinary' version of the film or an 'as the director intended' or 'special widescreen edition' or the like.
Now we have got used to the widescreen tv's they don't give us the option of a 16:9 picture to fill our new widescreen tv's - we only get 21:9 which leaves black bars.
What if I want to watch the film as my TV intended? I can't.
Pan & Scan was all we were used to. If I want to watch it as the director intended I'd go to the cinema where he/she/they intended it to be shown. Consumer choice - there isn't any other than buy the film or don't buy the film.
There's plenty of room on bluray for two versions of the same film. Why not utilise that?
Cheers,
Cofnchtr.
I don't think we do have a good balance.
You used to be able to buy only 4:3 films for home use. This matched the 4:3 screen of your tv.
Then widescreen versions of films were released and we were introduced to widescreen tv's. You had the choice of buying an 'ordinary' version of the film or an 'as the director intended' or 'special widescreen edition' or the like.
Now we have got used to the widescreen tv's they don't give us the option of a 16:9 picture to fill our new widescreen tv's - we only get 21:9 which leaves black bars.
What if I want to watch the film as my TV intended? I can't.
Pan & Scan was all we were used to. If I want to watch it as the director intended I'd go to the cinema where he/she/they intended it to be shown. Consumer choice - there isn't any other than buy the film or don't buy the film.
There's plenty of room on bluray for two versions of the same film. Why not utilise that?
Cheers,
Cofnchtr.
professorhat
Well-known member
But the Zoom aspect control does pretty much what Pan & Scan used to (other than a few scenes). Personally I'd prefer they use the space on Blu-Rays for a better picture and uncompressed soundtrack...
professorhat
Well-known member
timwileman
Well-known member
a conversation had a few times in my house...
Claire: can you do the zoom thing
me: Why
Claire: i dont like the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen
me: but we will miss off the sides
Claire: it looks too wide screen, like its at the cinema like this
Me: it is a widescreen telly
etc.....
Claire: can you do the zoom thing
me: Why
Claire: i dont like the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen
me: but we will miss off the sides
Claire: it looks too wide screen, like its at the cinema like this
Me: it is a widescreen telly
etc.....
professorhat:Do you want all film directors to start shooting their films in standard 16:9 format? Okay, but then we lose the impact you can get with a great film in the cinema... Also, I think you'll find most film directors will tell you to get stuffed.
This seems to be what they're clamouring for Prof so I'm going to throw an extra bit of info into the mix. Every modern film camera has what is known as an 'action-safe 16:9 area' in the viewfinder. It's a white outline of a 16:9 frame. This means that even if you are filming at 2.35:1, you can see what what area of the frame is cut off for 16:9. Cinematographers and Directors are forced by the studios to keep the main action of just about any shot within this 'action-safe' area. The reason being that TV sales is still a large revenue stream for film studios and a lot of films are converted from 2.35:1 to 16:9 for broadcast. TV companies will pay less if they have to do more work to do the conversion so the studios try to make it easier for them. It's a bit of a tightrope that the directors and cinematographers constantly have to walk. They need to deliver something 'cinematic' whilst, at the same time, keeping in mind that it will end up on the small screen. As a result, the director's artistic vision already compromised and has been for many years, ever since sales of films on VHS took off. The Zoom function effectively does the same thing as the cropping that would be applied by the TV networks.
This seems to be what they're clamouring for Prof so I'm going to throw an extra bit of info into the mix. Every modern film camera has what is known as an 'action-safe 16:9 area' in the viewfinder. It's a white outline of a 16:9 frame. This means that even if you are filming at 2.35:1, you can see what what area of the frame is cut off for 16:9. Cinematographers and Directors are forced by the studios to keep the main action of just about any shot within this 'action-safe' area. The reason being that TV sales is still a large revenue stream for film studios and a lot of films are converted from 2.35:1 to 16:9 for broadcast. TV companies will pay less if they have to do more work to do the conversion so the studios try to make it easier for them. It's a bit of a tightrope that the directors and cinematographers constantly have to walk. They need to deliver something 'cinematic' whilst, at the same time, keeping in mind that it will end up on the small screen. As a result, the director's artistic vision already compromised and has been for many years, ever since sales of films on VHS took off. The Zoom function effectively does the same thing as the cropping that would be applied by the TV networks.
professorhat
Well-known member
Nice one Fuzzy - basically what I've been trying to say but put much better than I could have done!
I also have a theory on why you don't see two versions of the films any more i.e. Wide Screen and Full Screen - I remember when the Wide Screen versions of VHS videos started coming out, I would seek out and buy these versions as I wanted to see the whole film, not just the small part of it with the sides chopped off (even though at the time, I was watching in my bedroom on a little 4:3 14" screen).
Over time, more and more releases came out in both versions and then we started seeing only the Wide Screen versions... could it therefore be that they stopped making the Full Screen versions because not many people bought them?
Just a theory...
I also have a theory on why you don't see two versions of the films any more i.e. Wide Screen and Full Screen - I remember when the Wide Screen versions of VHS videos started coming out, I would seek out and buy these versions as I wanted to see the whole film, not just the small part of it with the sides chopped off (even though at the time, I was watching in my bedroom on a little 4:3 14" screen).
Over time, more and more releases came out in both versions and then we started seeing only the Wide Screen versions... could it therefore be that they stopped making the Full Screen versions because not many people bought them?
Just a theory...
You must have good eyesight then. Did you watch the films on your 14" screen with a pair of operah glasses!
professorhat
Well-known member
Actually I used a small telescope.
In all seriousness, yes the picture was small, but (a) I was a young teenage film fan and wanted the best experience possible, but was obviously very limited in budget (didn't get pocket money in those days, had to work for a living and all that!); plus (b) I clearly wasn't sitting 12 feet away like I do in my lounge now. That's the reason I have a 42" TV in my lounge you see...
The point I've been trying to get across is, I'm a big film fan and wouldn't want the picture any different in my home cinema compared to the main cinema so I'm a big supporter of having the proper cinematic aspect ratio, even if that means black bars at the top and bottom.
Others clearly have different preferences, but as Fuzzy has shown so well, most films are filmed with this 16:9 safe zone in mind so, with your TV set to Zoom, you're getting the same picture as you would on a version which had been scaled down to fit your 16:9 TV.
In all seriousness, yes the picture was small, but (a) I was a young teenage film fan and wanted the best experience possible, but was obviously very limited in budget (didn't get pocket money in those days, had to work for a living and all that!); plus (b) I clearly wasn't sitting 12 feet away like I do in my lounge now. That's the reason I have a 42" TV in my lounge you see...
The point I've been trying to get across is, I'm a big film fan and wouldn't want the picture any different in my home cinema compared to the main cinema so I'm a big supporter of having the proper cinematic aspect ratio, even if that means black bars at the top and bottom.
Others clearly have different preferences, but as Fuzzy has shown so well, most films are filmed with this 16:9 safe zone in mind so, with your TV set to Zoom, you're getting the same picture as you would on a version which had been scaled down to fit your 16:9 TV.
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