steve_1979 said:
What's the problem, this is the year 2005, right?
I got my first MP3 player in 1998 (the real 1998, not manicm's); if I remember correctly most on my tracks were in 128kbps and did not sound particularly bad back then...
What's the problem, this is the year 2005, right?
I got my first MP3 player in 1998 (the real 1998, not manicm's); if I remember correctly most on my tracks were in 128kbps and did not sound particularly bad back then...
Many of my friends have chosen Blu-ray version live concert. These audio are in DTS HD/Maters which kicks CD off..
iMark
Well-known member
There is no way that HiRes will become popular, simply because it is too cumbersome and the files are way too big. Consider this. When do most people listen to music: when they're on the move, either walking/cycling, on public transport or in a car. These are all noisy environments where HiRes is a complete waste of recourses. Then there is the problem of playback devices and storage.
I can see lossless downloads (CD quality) eventually taking over from mp3 and AAC. Our own music collection is mainly ripped CD's, some recorded vinyl, some ripped music DVDs. Everything is stored as ALAC files which works great for streaming audio over the Airport Express. When we put music on our iPods we automatically downsample on-the-fly to 256 kbps AAC, which is good compromise between storage space and sound quality in noisy environments.
Streaming HiRes at home is difficult and expensive because there aren't many streamers available. The required storage space for the files is outrageous. It is simply not feasible to use mobile devices with HiRes.
In hindsight the record companies missed a trick by not switching all their releases to hybrid SACD. What a nice and elegant solution it is. You have multi channel and stereo in HiRes and a standard CD layer for ripping or playing in any CD player. The SACD layers play in (some) DVD-players and (some) Bluray players. If all releases from around 2000 had been hybrid SACDs..... Instead the industry came up with a format war between SACD and DVD-Audio which basically meant that both formats lost.
There's also a great argument that properly mastered CDs or lossless files files are more than good enough for any but professional studio use.
I can see lossless downloads (CD quality) eventually taking over from mp3 and AAC. Our own music collection is mainly ripped CD's, some recorded vinyl, some ripped music DVDs. Everything is stored as ALAC files which works great for streaming audio over the Airport Express. When we put music on our iPods we automatically downsample on-the-fly to 256 kbps AAC, which is good compromise between storage space and sound quality in noisy environments.
Streaming HiRes at home is difficult and expensive because there aren't many streamers available. The required storage space for the files is outrageous. It is simply not feasible to use mobile devices with HiRes.
In hindsight the record companies missed a trick by not switching all their releases to hybrid SACD. What a nice and elegant solution it is. You have multi channel and stereo in HiRes and a standard CD layer for ripping or playing in any CD player. The SACD layers play in (some) DVD-players and (some) Bluray players. If all releases from around 2000 had been hybrid SACDs..... Instead the industry came up with a format war between SACD and DVD-Audio which basically meant that both formats lost.
There's also a great argument that properly mastered CDs or lossless files files are more than good enough for any but professional studio use.
iMark said:
Why is this the only time people listen to music - because generally its the time when they are not actually listening to it - its just on.
Why is this - why do people not sit and actually listen to it - maybe its because its actually unlistenable or maybe because they dont care.
The people that dont care - that includes a lot of av enthusiasts which are close hobbyists there is no point aiming for them.
However I think if actually educated (term used loosely) to how good sitting and listening to music can actually be - when the music is brought to life in front of you this habbit might well change.
This starts with the source - as its only ever as good as this - therefore the music the majority like ie. commerical music needs to be of a high quality and quite often its not. So people are not going to sit and listen to it and really enjoy it when it sounds crud - it has to sound really good.
The better the source starts - the more chance of changing this habbit - this is what Pono is trying to do in my eyes and Meridian with MQA. Make people remember listening to music can be a great event - not exclusively something you do on the train or in the gym
iMark
Well-known member
Obviously people could be educated into taking more care about the way they listen to music. But the sad truth is that many (most?) people don't care about the quality of the source file they listen to. The interesting thing is that people will immediately see the difference between SD and HD TV but don't ***** up their ears when they hear a great sounding stereo system.
IMHO music has lost most of its value when it became available as 'free' downloads of badly encoded mp3 files in the late 1990s. It will be very difficult to reverse the idea that music is 'free' and should sound good.
IMHO music has lost most of its value when it became available as 'free' downloads of badly encoded mp3 files in the late 1990s. It will be very difficult to reverse the idea that music is 'free' and should sound good.
you can download pirate movies easy enough or buy them off the chinese guys who go around selling them - sure nowdays they are decent enough to watch
That doesnt stop people buying blu rays and dvd's - why - because of the quality.
Music can be the same as this - that is what I think they are hoping high def music will do which is a great thing and needs people getting behind it - imagine music thats blu ray quality for movies - how good would that be
That doesnt stop people buying blu rays and dvd's - why - because of the quality.
Music can be the same as this - that is what I think they are hoping high def music will do which is a great thing and needs people getting behind it - imagine music thats blu ray quality for movies - how good would that be
ellisdj said:
Sadly that's not the case. Truth is, most people really honestly do not care. You're preaching to the converted here on this forum, but really and honestly, in the big wide world people don't care. You could sit them in front of one of the best sounding systems imaginable in a perfectly treated room and a majority of people wouldn't be impressed. Music is a background noise to be chatted to, jogged to, something to put on in the car, and they massively value convienience over quality if they have to choose between the two.
some people on here are kind of missing something when they talk about better quality music etc...
The only people who *really* care about top notch tip top quality music production are producers or hifi buffs. Sure there's always going to be those people who do that aren't in those groups, but in general hifi peeps need to accept they are in a very small minority and it's an industry of money. Money talks and those people who buy the inferior product make up so much more of the sales it's not even worth discussing. Otherwise SACD and all it's ilk wouldn't have died a death.
However, with the advent of streaming and mp3's and music on the go, ticket sales for gigs and festivals keep increasing every year. Those are the very same people that some on here would look down their nose at, or decry for spoiling their enjoyment of their expensive stereo systems as they don't care about quality are the ones regularly going out to gigs and really supporting the artists, *not* the people who make the stereo equipment. Why do these people need to be "educated" in how to enjoy music when they are doing it in the very setting it was meant for, IE live, and they are supporting the artist much more than and audiophile sitting alone in a room with some big speakers.
It's also the same with Beats. Yes, they are a fashion statement, yes they aren't great, but it's taken an entire generation of people who would have traditionally used the rubbish buds that came with the player, and made them think about how they can get better sound. Surely this should be a cause for rejoicing within the hifi world, but no, sneery, snide comments, universal condemnation and general poking fun of those who purchase them ensue.
Audiophiles can be their own worst enemy at times.
The only people who *really* care about top notch tip top quality music production are producers or hifi buffs. Sure there's always going to be those people who do that aren't in those groups, but in general hifi peeps need to accept they are in a very small minority and it's an industry of money. Money talks and those people who buy the inferior product make up so much more of the sales it's not even worth discussing. Otherwise SACD and all it's ilk wouldn't have died a death.
However, with the advent of streaming and mp3's and music on the go, ticket sales for gigs and festivals keep increasing every year. Those are the very same people that some on here would look down their nose at, or decry for spoiling their enjoyment of their expensive stereo systems as they don't care about quality are the ones regularly going out to gigs and really supporting the artists, *not* the people who make the stereo equipment. Why do these people need to be "educated" in how to enjoy music when they are doing it in the very setting it was meant for, IE live, and they are supporting the artist much more than and audiophile sitting alone in a room with some big speakers.
It's also the same with Beats. Yes, they are a fashion statement, yes they aren't great, but it's taken an entire generation of people who would have traditionally used the rubbish buds that came with the player, and made them think about how they can get better sound. Surely this should be a cause for rejoicing within the hifi world, but no, sneery, snide comments, universal condemnation and general poking fun of those who purchase them ensue.
Audiophiles can be their own worst enemy at times.
ellisdj said:
it doesn't stop people buying blu rays etc because there are still quite a lot of people who a) like to support the producers, b) don't know how to illegally download, c) like to have the physical object d) have watched a pirated copy and they want the real thing or e) have morals enough that they don't like downloading.
The quality thing is not an issue as it's possible to download full fat blu ray rips, thus having the same quality as you would if you had purchased the disc.
edit: Just to say, my point E about morals was not meant as a dig, but I couldn't think of a better word!
All that doesnt stop people buying the real thing as you say - I bet they sell millions of blu rays every year and will sell millions of the same 4K Blu rays when released.
More likely for someone to follow a music performer than follow a movie producer I would imagine
The world is ready for higher quality. Instead its being done the cheaper way by offering streaming services. No need to produce a new medium for it just tag on to the exisiting habit of downloading music. But its not better its barely CD quality at present for commercial music services - obviously its early days
No company seems to have the balls to say here is the new High Res CD - obviously fearing it wont sell
More likely for someone to follow a music performer than follow a movie producer I would imagine
The world is ready for higher quality. Instead its being done the cheaper way by offering streaming services. No need to produce a new medium for it just tag on to the exisiting habit of downloading music. But its not better its barely CD quality at present for commercial music services - obviously its early days
No company seems to have the balls to say here is the new High Res CD - obviously fearing it wont sell
MajorFubar said:
This is the perfect example - a person sits down in an amazing room with an amazing system.
Puts on their favouirite pop track and the fantastic system in the fatnatastic room rips it to bits and it sounds crud.
So they quickly puts on a bit of well recorded jazz to try and highlight how good the system sounds and the person is instantly bored and on the phone on facebook.
Had their favourtie song been that good it caught their full attention and they couldnt not listen to it fully engrossed - maybe the end result would be different??
ellisdj said:
but they already have - SACD - and it tanked. Hence they won't in the future unless they know it's a certain. Companies are out there to make money.
Don't get me wrong, I would like to see better quality, but first they need to sort out the loudness wars before they start trying to shove another format down people's throats.
matt49
Well-known member
cheeseboy said:
If you're referring to rock/pop music, then I think you're right. But there's also a category of people who listen to classical music at home and who decidedly do care about the quality of recordings, and I'd guess most of these people don't fall into the category of hi-fi buffs.
The fact is that part of the music industry decided some time ago that the product needed to be optimized for use on radio, iPods etc. Another (admittedly much smaller) part realized that for a number of reasons this wouldn't work, so classical music on CD remains excellent in terms of sound quality.
ellisdj said:
you might change 1 in 100 at a conservative estimate, but most hear the music, not the quality of the playback system, so to them, you're just playing their favourite track in a weird room
I think you would change more than 1 in 100 if the truth was presented, to get someone in that seat they need to be not on the dont care category I mentioned before. Some people do care - people that buy and wear better headphones that commute for one example - there are lots of them about
Trouble is there is nowhere to go and listen to music sounding really good - where you can listen to any song and it always sounds to a certain standard, because the standard is currently wildly different.
Trouble is there is nowhere to go and listen to music sounding really good - where you can listen to any song and it always sounds to a certain standard, because the standard is currently wildly different.
matt49 said:
yup, I agree, that's why I said there will always be people who don't fall in to those groups.
Covenanter
Well-known member
serious non leading question - does anybody know how big the classical music industry and how it compares the the non classical side? I'm geniunely interested to know if it's just static, or if it's expanding or slowly dying out?
cheeseboy said:ellisdj said:
we'll have to agree to disagree on that one then
Theres a shock we dont agree on something
Covenanter
Well-known member
cheeseboy said:
Classical is about 3% of the total so a small part of the whole. It is declining slowly.
Chris
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