High resolution audio. The science, or lack of...?

[fr0g]

It just strikes me as a bit sad just going onto threads that you have no interest in just to try and put people down. They are perfectly entitled to do so, just as we are entitled to consider such a poster as rather a sad individual and a bit of an............. :silenced:

I have an interest in the forum being interesting, not some pointless thread which is going nowhere. Now who is putting people down? Say what you mean rather than hiding behind dots and smilies. I'm new here and frankly, it's not making much of an impression so far.

Honestly.

Here is an idea. Find a thread you are intrested in, contribute to it, smile.

Much better than having a hissy fit because your mummy bought you the wrong dress I think. (That is a metaphor by the way)

 

[busb]

It just strikes me as a bit sad just going onto threads that you have no interest in just to try and put people down. They are perfectly entitled to do so, just as we are entitled to consider such a poster as rather a sad individual and a bit of an............. :silenced:

I have an interest in the forum being interesting, not some pointless thread which is going nowhere. Now who is putting people down? Say what you mean rather than hiding behind dots and smilies. I'm new here and frankly, it's not making much of an impression so far.

Honestly.

What's interesting is a matter of opinion. I steer well clear of many threads rather than negatively commenting how boring they are (to me). Suggesting that some should "butt out" is a legitimate response to those being tiresome.

 

[Alec]

Unlike you.

King of the pointless post. Grow up.

Jus' sayin'.

 

[Anonymous]

Here is an idea. Find a thread you are intrested in, contribute to it, smile.

Much better than having a hissy fit because your mummy bought you the wrong dress I think. (That is a metaphor by the way)

How nice you all are!

Here is an idea. Freedom of speech, open forum, own thoughts and comments that anyone can post on, with whatever and whenever they like, even pointless ones (which should have a degree of decorum applied at all times).

 

[fr0g]

Here is an idea. Find a thread you are intrested in, contribute to it, smile.

Much better than having a hissy fit because your mummy bought you the wrong dress I think. (That is a metaphor by the way)

How nice you all are!

Here is an idea. Freedom of speech, open forum, own thoughts and comments that anyone can post on, with whatever and whenever they like, even pointless ones (which should have a degree of decorum applied at all times).

All very well, it's just a suggestion. I would fight for your right to post your pointless drivel on this thread... But unless you are simply trying to troll, then wouldn't it be better to go and enjoy a thread that suits you?

You are the equivalent of a spawn-camper in a FPS (That's a synonym by the way)

 

[Alec]

Here is an idea. Find a thread you are intrested in, contribute to it, smile.

Much better than having a hissy fit because your mummy bought you the wrong dress I think. (That is a metaphor by the way)

How nice you all are!

Here is an idea. Freedom of speech, open forum, own thoughts and comments that anyone can post on, with whatever and whenever they like, even pointless ones (which should have a degree of decorum applied at all times).

All very well, it's just a suggestion. I would fight for your right to post your pointless drivel on this thread... But unless you are simply trying to troll, then wouldn't it be better to go and enjoy a thread that suits you?

You are the equivalent of a spawn-camper in a FPS (That's a synonym by the way)

Isn't killing folk the name of the game?

 

[davedotco]

Glad you have noticed, my new years resolution to be polite is holding so far...

Matter of opinion rather than fact, though, eh.

And I thought I was doing so well too......

I was contemplating a 'No more Mr Nice Guy' approach but thought being polite would be more annoying, to some members at least..... :twisted:

 

[BenLaw]

Glad you have noticed, my new years resolution to be polite is holding so far...

Matter of opinion rather than fact, though, eh.

And I thought I was doing so well too......

I was contemplating a 'No more Mr Nice Guy' approach but thought being polite would be more annoying, to some members at least..... :twisted:

I don't think anyone would pick politeness as your most annoying characteristic

 

[the record spot]

It should be pointed out that this is a public forum and members are entitled to post their view whether you agree with it or not.

Its not here for your personal use................

I suppose he had to find out some day ....

I know, I know........ :shame:

It just strikes me as a bit sad just going onto threads that you have no interest in just to try and put people down. They are perfectly entitled to do so, just as we are entitled to consider such a poster as rather a sad individual and a bit of an............. :silenced:

You mean like your two trolling posts on this thread below Dave? Neither of which added to the discussion. People with glass houses...

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/every-now-and-then?page=1

 

[John Duncan]

We appear to have degenerated from discussion of the topic - which has been quite interesting - to personal attacks. I'd suggest we get back on topic quickly otherwise I'll be locking it.

 

[steve_1979]

We appear to have degenerated from discussion of the topic - which has been quite interesting - to personal attacks. I'd suggest we get back on topic quickly otherwise I'll be locking it.

Is there any chance you could prune the bickering comments from the last few pages JD? It was quite and interesting and informative thread until this afternoon.

And please, with respect to everyone posting could we try to keep things on topic without the pointless and negative comments about forum politics. ray:

 

[matt49]

We appear to have degenerated from discussion of the topic - which has been quite interesting - to personal attacks. I'd suggest we get back on topic quickly otherwise I'll be locking it.

Is there any chance you could prune the bickering comments from the last few pages JD? It was quite and interesting and informative thread until this afternoon.

And please, with respect to everyone posting could we try to keep things on topic without the pointless and negative comments about forum politics. ray:

Amen.

 

[steve_1979]

This is worth reading.

+1

This is very good explanation of dithering which is written in 'relatively' simple to understand layman's terms and is short enough to be easily digested.

 

[chebby]

I bought a Decca classical CD (brand new) during the week that cost me £3.99 from our local HMV. (Not discounted and not part of any special offer).

It's £7.16 for the same CD on Amazon.

However, the identical Decca recording / performance costs £18 to download from Linn Records in 'Studio Master' quality. (Even Linn's £8 320K MP3 download costs over twice as much as my CD.)

Disregarding all the technical argy-bargy for a moment, how is a Linn Studio Master download going to sound 4.5 times better than my CD?

(Don't give me any 'law of diminishing returns' cr#p either. That sort of weasel translation of ... 'we won't give you what you pay for' lost any of the persuasive power it used to have when the economy tanked!)

 

[jcbrum]

Disregarding all the technical argy-bargy for a moment, how is a Linn Studio Master download going to sound 4.5 times better than my CD?

This article (click on it) gives you an answer, from a fairly well respected source.

Some more info here.

JC

 

[drummerman]

I can't vouch for this particular recording and Linn has a good reputation for recording quality but Paul Miller's measurements of such downloads in HN does shed a somewhat mixed light on this kind of media ...

As for me ... I think even Spotify premium sounds great these days ...

regards

 

[lindsayt]

Hi,

The first square wave indicates that the amplifier has a capacitively decoupled input. This is a typical response of a Capacitance-Resistance circuit for a step input change.

The jaggly bits on the second trace are harmonic distortion.

I would state that Total Harmonic Distortion does represent the distortion of the amplifier in its entirety.

A theoretical perfect amplifier is supposed to have only gain, therefore any deviation from a simple scalar factor (gain) will be represented as distortion - that is a non-linearity.

THD measures this.

The "squareness" of the output is simply an indication of the amplifier bandwidth, and the filtering characteristics of the amplifier topology, not distortion.

Agreed that an objective measurement is not indication of a subjective sound evaluation.

Regards,

Shadders.

If the jaggly bits on the Anthem square wave are harmonic distortion, how come this amp is specified as having less than 0.06 Total Harmonic Distortion and Noise? How come the Yamamoto which has a better, but still far from perfect square wave output, is specified as having 5% Total Harmonic Distortion and Noise?

 

[Neuphonix]

Don't disagree mate, but, yourself excepted, the ratpack are pretty rude if you dare to disagree with them. A bit like rolling up in the members stand at the MCG on boxing day and supporting England.

Well if you're going to put yourself in the heart of enemy teritory on a sacred day you have to know what to expect!!!

 

[Neuphonix]

Glad you have noticed, my new years resolution to be polite is holding so far...

Matter of opinion rather than fact, though, eh.

And I thought I was doing so well too......

I was contemplating a 'No more Mr Nice Guy' approach but thought being polite would be more annoying, to some members at least..... :twisted:

I don't think anyone would pick politeness as your most annoying characteristic

I wondered what had happened to him? It's been making me feel a bit nauseous TBH watching him pick his words so carefully!

Bring back the old Dave :twisted:

 

[fr0g]

I bought a Decca classical CD (brand new) during the week that cost me £3.99 from our local HMV. (Not discounted and not part of any special offer).

It's £7.16 for the same CD on Amazon.

However, the identical Decca recording / performance costs £18 to download from Linn Records in 'Studio Master' quality. (Even Linn's £8 320K MP3 download costs over twice as much as my CD.)

Disregarding all the technical argy-bargy for a moment, how is a Linn Studio Master download going to sound 4.5 times better than my CD?

(Don't give me any 'law of diminishing returns' cr#p either. That sort of weasel translation of ... 'we won't give you what you pay for' lost any of the persuasive power it used to have when the economy tanked!)

It won't sound 4.5 times better. But it may be a better recording. Linn, whilst supplying some truly excellent recordings are somewhat taking advantage I feel.

It is not the quality difference that drives the price variation, but the demand. And I think it suits them to be coy about the reasons why the studio master sounds better...

I

 

[altruistic.lemon]

This is worth reading.

+1

This is very good explanation of dithering which is written in 'relatively' simple to understand layman's terms and is short enough to be easily digested.

Even for the clueless? Really, Steve!

 

[Alec]

This is worth reading.

+1

This is very good explanation of dithering which is written in 'relatively' simple to understand layman's terms and is short enough to be easily digested.

Even for the clueless?

Dunno. Read it and get back to us.

 

[shadders]

Hi,

The first square wave indicates that the amplifier has a capacitively decoupled input. This is a typical response of a Capacitance-Resistance circuit for a step input change.

The jaggly bits on the second trace are harmonic distortion.

I would state that Total Harmonic Distortion does represent the distortion of the amplifier in its entirety.

A theoretical perfect amplifier is supposed to have only gain, therefore any deviation from a simple scalar factor (gain) will be represented as distortion - that is a non-linearity.

THD measures this.

The "squareness" of the output is simply an indication of the amplifier bandwidth, and the filtering characteristics of the amplifier topology, not distortion.

Agreed that an objective measurement is not indication of a subjective sound evaluation.

Regards,

Shadders.

If the jaggly bits on the Anthem square wave are harmonic distortion, how come this amp is specified as having less than 0.06 Total Harmonic Distortion and Noise? How come the Yamamoto which has a better, but still far from perfect square wave output, is specified as having 5% Total Harmonic Distortion and Noise?

Hi,

Ok - i mistook the order of your explanation of the figures to the naming of the amplifiers in your text. Therefore i assumed the jaggly bits were the higher THD amplifier distortion based on the fundamental of the input signal of 10kHz.

The stereophile website states the jaggly bits - are in fact the Class D switching frequency.

On the sterophile website they have a second figure - which you did not display.

The rising edge of the second figure which is low pass filtered for signals above 200kHz shows that the rising edge time is very similar to the other amplifier picture you have shown.

They therefore have similar bandwidths.

The jaggly waveform from the Anthem M1 has a bandiwdth of 39kHz (-3dB point) (sterophile web site)

The Yamamoto A08 has a bandwidth of 34kHz (-3dB point) (sterophile web site)

THD is measured for a specific power into a known load, sine wave at a specific frequency - 1kHz is the frequency used.

Plots are usually given as per their website for a specific power into a known load across the frequency range etc.

A square wave contains the fundamental (10kHz in this case) and all odd harmonic frequencies up to infinity.

This is not a test of distortion, but how the amplifier performs under a wideband frequency input in the time domain.

Therefore you cannot infer that the "nicer" looking square wave means a better amplifer.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

This is worth reading.

+1

This is very good explanation of dithering which is written in 'relatively' simple to understand layman's terms and is short enough to be easily digested.

having read the article and surely heard the attached audio files, do you still believe that 16 bits offer full 96dB of dynamic range, Steve? unless you prefer to listen to distortion or hissssss.....

 

[Covenanter]

I can't remember whether I posted to this stupid thread before or not but what is the point of members slagging each other off?

Grow up chaps!

Chris