HiFi Expensive in the Rip off UK

[BenLaw]

£80K sounds a lot for some of the companies whose equipment i've seen featured on front pages over the years. Some of them would be lucky to make that in annual profit let alone be able to stump up such a sum just for advertising in one magazine.

Are you saying What Hi-Fi? S&V make over a million pounds a year (13 issues x £80k) just from advertising on the cover alone? I find that highly unlikely.

Just about covers Andrew's annual salary. Or so I have it, on very good authority.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Jibes at magazines... I have it on very good authority, the A400 was a paid off product review / success.

As the only member of the current team who was on the magazine at the time, I can asure you your very good authority is talking nonsense.

And I read somewhere else the front of this magazine is £80k.

Love to know where that mysterious somewhere was you read this, as no-one has ever paid to have their product on the cover of the magazine. It's an editorial page, not an advertising one, and products are chosen for the cover on their ability to sell the magazine to readers, and for no other reason whatsoever.

 

[dbbloke]

I read somewhere else, not sure if i believe though.

Cant always believe what you read, but I might add - especially if your ears tell you otherwise, not directed at anyone in particular.

The A400 thing was a long time ago, that's all the defence it has really. Im not prepared to say on who's authority, so take it or leave it. I'll just keep on reading and note when I see 5 stars and hear 1 star as I said, its nice to look at new hifi gear and interesting articles.

e.g. HiFi choice was completely brilliant this month. Cleaning contacts, what next for a premium mag Perhaps they will cover Dirac in mobiles.

 

[dbbloke]

Bit off topic. I'll let you know if i find the 80k reference. From memory I think it was audio asylum / diy hifi or some other music forum. Really I forget.

Point noted about the A400 but it works both ways, I really dont think they were talking nonsense. And it is a completely overrated product, come on, it was a huge success. So defensive, interesting the amount of feedback if there is no fire. I wasnt even going to mention it again until someone commented on jibes at magazines so I felt the need to somewhat qualify my assertions. If I were you I would just ignore such weekly comments and invest time in the magazine what with so much free web competition nowadays. I will mention no more.

 

[Mcklemme]

Regarding the HIFI prices in Britain.

I live in Denmark and I checked a lot of prices this fall, mainly amps in the price range £800-1200 and speakers in the same range for a pair. The prices in Denmark were significantly lower than the prices in Britain. Usually I can save money buying shoes, clothing, music and blurays in the UK but for some reason this was not the case with the HIFI I looked at. Ironically I was looking into good, British HIFI like Rotel and Bowers & Wilkins.

I recommend checking the prices around Europe when you are looking at new gear. It is the only way to make your local dealers consider marketing HIFI at more competitive prices. Like most people I like supporting my local dealers, but only if they are willing to offer competitive prices... Otherwise I will take my business elsewhere...

 

[Andy Clough]

Jibes at magazines... I have it on very good authority, the A400 was a paid off product review / success.

As the only member of the current team who was on the magazine at the time, I can asure you your very good authority is talking nonsense.

And I read somewhere else the front of this magazine is £80k.

Love to know where that mysterious somewhere was you read this, as no-one has ever paid to have their product on the cover of the magazine. It's an editorial page, not an advertising one, and products are chosen for the cover on their ability to sell the magazine to readers, and for no other reason whatsoever.

Just to add my own comments to Andrew's robust defense: FACT 1 – We have never sold the front cover of the magazine, nor would we do so (and given that Andrew and I have both been involved with WHF?SV for a very long time, we'd know if it had happened). FACT 2 - We have never been paid for a review, and if anyone on the editorial team took backhanders they'd be fired. Simple as that.

However, as for readers disagreeing with our reviews or verdicts, we have absolutely no problem with that, and we always urge people to audition a product before they buy. The magazine is there as a guide to help, but there's nothing to beat using your own eyes and ears.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Bit off topic. I'll let you know if i find the 80k reference. From memory I think it was audio asylum / diy hifi or some other music forum. Really I forget.

Good, solid evidence, then...

Point noted about the A400 but it works both ways, I really dont think they were talking nonsense.

Not a clue what that means, and who are these 'they'?

So defensive, interesting the amount of feedback if there is no fire.

Ah, so the fact we respond to very serious allegations of malpractice suggests guilt to you? That's ridiculous: I simply respond in what AC refers to as a 'robust' manner simply because I am sick of these allegations, not one of which has ever been backed up with a shred of evidence, about a magazine on which I have worked for over 20 years.

I wasnt even going to mention it again until someone commented on jibes at magazines so I felt the need to somewhat qualify my assertions.

Which you haven't.

 

[chebby]

Bit off topic. I'll let you know if i find the 80k reference. From memory I think it was audio asylum / diy hifi or some other music forum. Really I forget.

Oh okay. I believe you now we all know you think it was someone on another forum but you've forgotten.

Point noted about the A400 but it works both ways, I really dont think they were talking nonsense. And it is a completely overrated product, come on, it was a huge success.

I'm disappointed. I thought someone had finally come here to accuse the magazine of iffy behaviour and really did have a very good, verifiable, source to back it up. Expecting dust, feathers, claws, desperate calls to to the legal team, the whole Haymarket edifice collapsing and it's owner going bankrupt.

What did we get instead? It must have happened because it got rave reviews and you didn't think it was any good. Ergo bent review.

So defensive, interesting the amount of feedback if there is no fire. I wasnt even going to mention it again until someone commented on jibes at magazines so I felt the need to somewhat qualify my assertions.

And failed.

 

[Mcklemme]

Wow, storm in a tea cup!

...and you started it.

A piece of advice: if you make serious allegations at someone, make sure you have hard evidence to back it up. If you don't, admit that you went to far. Otherwise you'll end up looking like a fool who got carried away by his emotions...

 

[BenLaw]

So defensive, interesting the amount of feedback if there is no fire.

Ah, so the fact we respond to very serious allegations of malpractice suggests guilt to you?

Like, obviously. And of course, like, if you'd said nothing that would have been such an obvious sign you were guilty. Duh.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Like, obviously. And of course, like, if you'd said nothing that would have been such an obvious sign you were guilty. Duh.

 

[Mcklemme]

He he. Reminds me of how we "tested" if women were witches in the dark ages here in Denmark. They were hog tied a put in a basin with water. If they floated it was a proof that they were guilty. If they sank, they were innocent...

Given the choice, I'd choose working for What HIFI...

 

[BenLaw]

Like, obviously. And of course, like, if you'd said nothing that would have been such an obvious sign you were guilty. Duh.

I like how you had your hair then, you should go back to that look.

 

[Andrew Everard]

I like how you had your hair then, you should go back to that look.

Not sure: once one gets past the big 5-0-0, such a style might be seen to be trying too hard.

 

[Singslinger]

I actually used to own the A-400 and thought it was fantastic. Definitely not overrated IMO.

 

[dbbloke]

Hi Andrew E. I guess you can write? because due to your stupifying non-comprehension of english I'm having to write yet another post. Are you just trolling me? Wish I could PM.

"good solid evidence" I'm not giving evidence of the 80k frontpage, just something i read on another forum and i never stated it was true just something i read. Interesting to note the Facts, nice to get a response.

"Not a clue what that means, and who are these 'they'?"

Why do you take they as plural? It might be singular depending on context.

"Ah, so the fact we respond to very serious allegations of malpractice suggests guilt to you? That's ridiculous: I simply respond in what AC refers to as a 'robust' manner simply because I am sick of these allegations, not one of which has ever been backed up with a shred of evidence, about a magazine on which I have worked for over 20 years."

There you go again, introducing one of your words, "malpractice". This is what I meant when I said smoke, you are free to interpret how you like.

It's not an allegation, it's something someone told me about one of your reviews. Personally I find it strange you review the same old established brands for the last umpteen years and often find your reviews dont match up with my findings in the real world at all. Reviewing equipment objectively is possible and as such personal preference doesnt come into it. So you either have - strange synergy between your components, special review samples, non-representive listening rooms, unqualified reviewers or just ones who cant describe what they are hearing. Perhaps its me mis-hearig things time and again in different locations in different setups.

Perhaps I'm the only person to think this way though. As such one reader shouldn't be a concern to you, you could probably write it off as someone who knew no better. If potentially half the readership thinks this though (the half no longer reading), then you should wake up. Constantly look at the was you review gear and strive to improve so when you give 5 stars, people go and hear it and think, wow, this really is 5 stars glad i bought WHF. I understand a lot of people don't like real hifi though, they prefer something which just looks good. As such I hope you take this criticism in a good constructive way.

Maybe I've just missed all the issues where you review something I've never heard of from a small struggling company? Or something rediculously cheap. Perhaps you know your readership doesn't care for this and that's a marketing decision.

"Which you haven't."

I think a page or so of constant posts seems to suggest there is some feedback happening. Perhaps it's not what you were after in the way of - who said this

- but I did say somewhat qualified, im clearly not saying if you didnt realise by now. And if you are good investigative journalists then you should be able to find the 80k reference. I've wasted anough time on this thread.

Andy C

Useful reply at last, but still.. if things are objective then it's not a personal opinion. If a piece of equipment is not the reviewer preference then I would expect him to say, e.g. i dont like warm speakers but still mark them accordingly in his conclusion. An example from me is I personally dislike dynaudio (and my perception of their value) but understand they are fairly accurate and have friends that seem to love them, I probably hear/have heard a lot more live music though from organ-classical-pop-rock-acoustic-electro etc... so this influences me over another who hears mostly dance music in clubs. I guess in reviews it says - good for classical, good for rock, good for dubstep etc sometimes.

Thanks to an earlier reply about prices. Next time I'm looking for a brand I will look around europe, I notice amazon de sometimes has bargains but never really looked for hifi gear, currently mostly broke for hifi purchases. Anyhow, It's not good form to listen at a shop and buy somewhere else. I guess if it's a brilliant amazing shop then you buy there whatever and it's up to the shop to make you think about them so positively. Or just buy blind or from a review you read or advie in this forum. Dont know any hifi shops down south that I think are really passionate about thier gear/clients.

Wow it's late. Hope this was useful and someone appreciates my time, I could be reading a good book and listening to the new Foals album.

 

[ID.]

I too believe that everyone with a different opinion from me is either an idiot or corrupt.

I mean it's obvious that my opinion is correct, and I'm prepared to provide any amount of hearsay to back me up.

Now where's that troll emoticon...

 

[Andrew Everard]

Hvorfor kan du aldri finne en Trolljegeren når du trenger en?

 

[jjbomber]

Hvorfor kan du aldri finne en Trolljegeren når du trenger en?

Do Trolls come from Norway? You learn something new every day.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Do Trolls come from Norway? You learn something new every day.

H2H

 

[dbbloke]

So all reviews are subjective opinions and no piece of equipment is better than any other. An amplifier is just wire with gain, although eq/processing has come a long way.

People should blindly accept everything if someone has like 10000 posts or is a reviewer.

Nobody exists in the world with experience, who is respect amongst their peers, and is qualified to say anything? Particularly if it might makes the reviewers / advertisers fearful.

Or

People who speak the hard truth and state their arguments clearly with feedback deserve to be bullied for fear of upsetting the status quo.

The status quo should be deaf (no pun), not accept any criticism or take anything on board from anyone.

Funny, I'm wrong not the reviewers. Only works one way. At least I'm open to discussion. I guess that's what happens when you experience a lot of average lazy people in the world. Choose friends wisely.

 

[Clare Newsome]

But you're not speaking "the hard truth", you're repeating unsubstantiated rumours.

As someone whom worked for WHF for 10+ years, and is now on 'the other side', I can tell you it is IMPOSSIBLE to buy a good WHF review, or even to guarantee any editorial coverage.

I encounter media every day where I know I can 'pay to place' - ie advertising guarantees coverage. That simply isn't the case with WHF, which enjoys editorial independence.

Long may that continue, however nerve-wracking it is waiting to see what WHF star rating you're going to get. (The last product one of our brands submitted got 3 stars, incidentally. A brand that has spent tens of thousands of pounds advertising in WHF over the past few years).

 

[chebby]

So all reviews are subjective opinions and no piece of equipment is better than any other. An amplifier is just wire with gain, although eq/processing has come a long way.

People should blindly accept everything if someone has like 10000 posts or is a reviewer.

Nobody exists in the world with experience, who is respect amongst their peers, and is qualified to say anything? Particularly if it might makes the reviewers / advertisers fearful.

Or

People who speak the hard truth and state their arguments clearly with feedback deserve to be bullied for fear of upsetting the status quo.

The status quo should be deaf (no pun), not accept any criticism or take anything on board from anyone.

Funny, I'm wrong not the reviewers. Only works one way. At least I'm open to discussion. I guess that's what happens when you experience a lot of average lazy people in the world. Choose friends wisely.

When in a hole, stop digging. You can't / won't even back up your own baseless & source-less allegations. No links, no names, no direct quotes. Just some vague and rambling drivel which ultimately consists of "I got it from some bloke on the internet" and... "I don't agree with your reviews so you must all be bent".

If I was a moderator I wouldn't hesitate to ban you for making unfounded accusations regarding advertisers paying for reviews. You should be grateful that the actual staff and moderators are a lot kinder than I am.

You are not even very good at it. We have (and have had) some bl---y marvellous, funny and intelligent trolls on this website and you are letting the side down!

 

[AEJim]

But you're not speaking "the hard truth", you're repeating unsubstantiated rumours.

As someone whom worked for WHF for 10+ years, and is now on 'the other side', I can tell you it is IMPOSSIBLE to buy a good WHF review, or even to guarantee any editorial coverage.

I encounter media every day where I know I can 'pay to place' - ie advertising guarantees coverage. That simply isn't the case with WHF, which enjoys editorial independence.

Long may that continue, however nerve-wracking it is waiting to see what WHF star rating you're going to get. (The last product one of our brands submitted got 3 stars, incidentally. A brand that has spent tens of thousands of pounds advertising in WHF over the past few years).

Haha, I can certainly vouch for this situation!

We (Acoustic Energy) have had our share of average reviews, 5-Stars and Awards as well, but It may surprise certain people to hear that we won WHF "Product of the Year" awards for three years running during a period we weren't even advertising - and on the flip-side got some 4-Stars a couple of years back when we'd committed to a year's worth. I've never heard anything about prices being offered for the front cover, you pay more for an inside front or back cover advert but it's certainly not £80k!

The review staff give away nothing (positive or negative) about your product and from chats I've had in the past at shows don't even seem to know the advertising department. The discussions with the reviewers are largely limited to dropping off of product and then perhaps answering a few questions via email and that's it, nothing more is let on. We found out about our latest review outcome when a shop called to congratulate us becasue they'd got their sub copy of the mag!

We may or may not always agree with the outcomes of reviews but I firmly believe that the vast majority of the Hi-Fi press that remain (at least in the UK) are fair and truthful about product which can only really be reviewed subjectively. Measurements don't always mean that much in the real world and of course the bigger names and more popular products will be promoted and mentioned more, but then that is the case in all media.

It's the reviewer's personal opinion at the end of the day, if you trust that particular person or magazine's opinion then it will matter to you, if you don't it won't.

Always try product that appeals to you for yourself regardless of what reviews say, they are a guide, not a set of rules that must be followed.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Surely the extra expense of any improvements would be more than mitigated by the reduced cost of cheap Chinese manufacture.

In my youth "cheap" was associated with Japan and now Japanese engineering is rather highly thought of. The world changes and doubtless in a few years China will be viewed in the same way and people will be complaining about cheap maufacturing from Peru or wherever.

Indeed: as I explain here, the idea of 'cheap Chinese manufacture' is fading fast