Hifi dealers, please learn from this..

[Superaintit]

Have to get this of my chest: just been to a hifi demo I arranged for today. Listened to some Neat motive 2 and pmc gb1i. The PMC's I liked most. However, the sales guy has slated my arcam a couple of times in the short time I met him.Not such a good tactic...

On the phone he mentioned they had arcam in house but it wasn't hooked/warmed up, so it wouldn't sound not so good. He suggested a naim combo instead. I agreed as this seemed a reasonable explantion. During the demo the guy asked what I thought of the speakers and asked what gear I had. I said I liked them, especially the PMC but would like to try them with my own arcam gear. Then he practically slated all arcam gear, as he thought it was inferior to naim. Ok, given the fact that the arcam mini was quite good in it's category....(you can pretty much guess how he went on). He suggested I swap my arcams for some naim.

Saying what they said didn't win them anything; they just lost a customer. They even offered a home demo but I just don't feel inclined to buy from them anymore. I can get that they don't prefer arcam as everybody has it's own preference and they want to sell as much as they can, but this was just plain stupid. I have listed to naim, cyrus, quad and arcam and have already made up my mind about the components. Which I had said before. I just needed some speakers, but apparently this fell onto deaf ears.

I guess I will find another dealer then...

 

[Sizzers]

Name and shame?, or would that be libellous?

 

[chebby]

Better if the dealer sets up some Arcam and Naim side by side and leave you to decide (and keeps his mouth shut about his own prejudices).

His is, essentially, a shop assistant* and should be assisting not spouting.

*A pet peeve of mine. 'Dealers' (and I use the word like everyone else out of conformity) are shop assistants unless they own or manage the business.

 

[SonofSun]

I am astonished that 2 dealers I have visited in the Northwest are still in business. I went to B&W dealer in Chester and mentioned that I would like a home demonstration. There was a look of horror and disgust on his face, he then proceeded to tell me that the speakers would sound exactly the same and a home demo was going to happen over his dead body. Also, during the in house demo, the assistant removed my CD and put some unknown garbage on and attempted to vapourise my eardrums, when I had previously mentioned that I didn't listen at high volumes.

 

[audioaffair]

If I can offer our two cents - despite some of our past foibles due to rapid growth, I've never understood why some sales assistants push one brand over trashing others and in some cases don't even listen to the customer. If a customer is looking for something to match their current set-up, the best the dealer can do is offer a home demo or allow the customer to bring in their own equipment to try with the items being demm'd.

If a customer is coming in for a demonstration of speakers - especially at this level which is quite a spend, the dealer should allow the customer to let their ears do the deciding, act as a neutral advisor if the customer has any questions and feel appreciative the customer is considering making a purchase with them. The dealer might get the odd customer stay for half a day or even a whole day in some cases and not buy on the spot, but that's all part of the territory in allowing you to take your time if you're not ready to buy on the spot.

Like I've started saying quite a bit - the best advice is simply to listen and allow your own judgment to make the decision for you.

 

[scene]

Exactly. You were there to choose speakers, to go with your system. That being the case, he should have hooked the speakers to some arcam kit. His thoughts on the relative merits of Arcam shouldn't come into it...

ok, maybe he could say at the end of your demo "have you heard what they sound like with Naim kit, they really sing..." then he's sharing his enthusiasm, that might win you over, rather than just slagging off your beloved arcam kit (see sig. for my beloved kit

)

 

[wireman]

To add to this tale of Dealers not listening to Customers...

Several years ago now, I went into the nearest dealer I could find who stocked both Wadia and Mark Levinson, with a view to buying a new CD player. Both the CD player models I had in mind then cost around £6000.

My friend already had the Wadia model, so I had a pretty good idea what that was about... I really wanted to compare it to the Mark Levinson, of which I knew very little, but it was at that time getting rave reviews in all the magazines.

The dealer pretty much dismissed the Mark Levinson player from the outset - even though he was a main agent for the brand - and insisted I just listen to the Wadia, which clearly would have been his personal choice... but a totally pointless exercise for me given the above.

I just walked out in disgust, and have never been back there again. Once I did get to compare the two players elsewhere, I ended up buying the Levinson player, and so that original dealer lost an easy £6000 sale simply by not listening. I did have half a mind to go back and tell him...

 

[Superaintit]

Thanks for your support, guys. I won't name any names, as I don't think that helps matters much. It was an independant retailer carrying mainly high-end brands, nagra, meridian, naim, pmc, neat etc. I selected them because they were one of the few places that both had neat and pmc in stock.

I think I told him pretty clearly that I already settled on arcam gear (after some previous demos at a different dealer, who didn't have either pmc or neat.) He didn't get the hint. It might have been a bad case of hifi arrogance as when he asked me what I used as a source and I said computer and rdac, he clearly thought it inferior. As I saw a naim uniti on the shelves, I mentioned to him I read reviews saying that the uniti and hdx are equally good at playing from hdd or cd.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

The upshot of this is that he showed me a meridian sooloos playing through a bryston system to some 40.000 euro speakers. (To him this was the only system that actually sounded good with a hdd.) Unfortunately he forgot that 40.000 euro speakers at the end of a 20.000 euro system is slightly over budget for a simple guy like me on the look for a 1500 euro speaker...

 

[Anonymous]

i think dealers that stock multiple brands, which most do, are going to make more money on some over others at any given time, so some of them are more likely to push whatever brand/item the biggest mark up is on.

i think they should let the buyer decide what they prefer without any persuasion either way, then no matter what the buyer decides to buy, they still make a profit, better to make a small profit and have a happy customer that may tell others of a positive experience of the store than gamble on a bigger profit that could backfire, and dent the dealers reputation.

its common sense really..

 

[6th.replicant]

Curious, I had a very similar experience during a speaker demo back in Aug - 'your dealer' isn't based in the Borough of Lewisham by any chance?

Even though 'my dealer' stocked Arcam and Naim, the demo room was setup like a temple to the latter, whereas the former's products and general promotional stuff were conspicuous by their absence.

Used my Arcam CD37 and his A38 during the demo. I'd barely sat down before he started slagging off the CD37 and saying how both the Naim CD5i and CD5 XS were far superior and much more "musical" etc. Hmm, well thanks for that, mate, but having demo'd said Naims, I beg to differ - horses for (SACD) courses etc.

He also became borderline stroppy when I said that I preferred the Spendor A5 to the A6 when playing rock/pop/soul etc. (Although, IMHO, the A6 was/is a peach with classical and jazz.)

Needless to say, I took my (Amex card's) £2k budget for speakers elsewhere.

BTW, Superaintit, thanks for your advice - in another thread - that the rDAC needs c. 100 hours of run-in. You were quite correct.

 

[Frank Harvey]

With the decreasing amount of interest in hi-fi generally over the past 10 years, no dealer can afford to be slagging off brands so blatantly. Voice reservations if they benefit the customer in any way,, but no more than that - the customer is there to make his own mind up, not the dealer make it up for him. And you can't just dismiss the customers system like that - they obviously chose that combination via demonstration - if I was the customer and a dealer slagged my system off, I know I'd walk out too!! stores that keep a lot of brands tend to attract more people for demos, and if treated the way would expect to be treated yourself, will more than likely buy from you too, so there's no real benefit from trying to do what this dealer has done. Maybe they get a 1 in 10 hit rate doing this, which will earn them an extra sale - but at what long term cost?

And to say all speakers sound the same is ludicrous! As most people know, there's more discernible differences between speakers than electronics, and even though a larger difference would be heard in your own home, an initial demo in store can save a lot of time and petrol!

I'll admit, and those that know me know that I generally prefer Naim over Arcam, but that doesn't mean everybody else will think he same. There's a tough year ahead of the hi-fi industry next year, maybe it'll weed out some of those less desirable dealers so you guys are less likely to encounter them.

 

[ID.]

chebby:
*A pet peeve of mine. 'Dealers' (and I use the word like everyone else out of conformity) are shop assistants unless they own or manage the business.

I've encountered a number of people like this. I think the problem is they don't see themselves as shop assistants. The attitude that I've been met seemed to indicate that they were the absolute arbiter of taste and knowledge about HiFi combined with their own view that they are a "salesman" (and a darned fine one at that).

It seems to be a rather shortsighted view where they only view it as not having being able to upsell you on the Naim, rather than seeing that they've lost a potential 1500 pound speaker sale and your trust (which will often lead to repeat business down the track).

As suggested, it doesn't take much more effort to instead talk about the synergy with Naim products, or mention how Naim products might be in line with the qualities the customer is looking for and them provide the opportunity to hear for yourself in comparison to Arcam..

 

[matthewpiano]

I agree with what is being said here but only in part.

A good salesperson should be able to make a profitable sale for the company by playing to the customer's tastes and requirements, not by effectively talking down to the customer or trying to enforce his/her own opinions. Slagging off a customer's existing equipment (or other product) is one of the big don't-dos of sales in my opinion and I shudder if I hear anyone else doing it. Nobody working for me would get away with it!!

What I am slightly uncomfortable with in this thread is the inferred denigration of sales people. A sales job is what you make it. There are plenty of sales staff in all sorts of settings who are little more than shop assistants because they don't make anything of the job and get by on the minimum levels of work, knowledge and effort (and, actually, there are many shop assistants in less specialist settings who work damned hard day in and day out and achieve more for their company than the less professional 'sales staff'). However, well-chosen sales staff who see it for the professional job that it is are highly skilled and highly knowledgable and go out of their way to fulfil the TWO main facets of their role - 1. To provide quality service, advice and back-up to the customer, always with a focus on the customer's needs and requirements, and 2. To make sales that are profitable for the company. It is quite possible to achieve both at the same time and that is the skill of a proper sales person.

 

[ID.]

Good point MP, nothing wrong with working in sales. My bad experiences have been of staff who think of themselves as hotshot salesmen and only have one rather unsubtle hardsell approach.

A good salesman (salesperson) should be able to read the situation to a degree and vary their approach. They can sell things and make suggestions in an appropriate way so that they can come away with a sale and the customer comes away pleased. Win-win.

 

[Andrew Everard]

I think we're talking the difference between 'dealers' - who will offer service, advice and of course a deal, and are comparatively rare - and retailers, who just sell things.