Help with upgrade... upgrade speakers or poor amp choice?

[admin_exported]

Hi,

I have recently been upgrading my HiFi components and now find myself in a situation that I seem to have taken a backward step!

Speakers: B&W DM 601 S2 (yep, bought them a long time ago!)

CD Player: Denon DCD-700AE (recent upgrade)

Amplifier: Denon PMA-710AE (most recent upgrade replacing a Rotel RA971-MKII)

(Cables: QED Silver Anniversary XT terminated speaker cables + QED Qunex 3 30th Anniversary Edition interconnect)

The logic being that the Denon CD player and Denon amplifier would make the perfect partnering (and also share the same remote which was a definite plus). However, the sound seems a little on the dull side with the treble muted a little. If I slip the Rotel amplifier back in then then sound definitely improves on the treble side, brighter even. The Denon amplifier received very good reviews, so could it be that the speakers are not the best match for this Denon CD/amplifier pairing? ...or could it be really that the 9 year old Rotel amplifier is actually better than the Denon?

Any guidance or help would be greatly appreciated!

KnightAzul

 

[matthewpiano]

I have heard the Denon 710AE sounding very good through a pair of KEF Q100s...

In the meantime I would change your cables. The QED stuff can squash everything a bit. Moving to Chord Company CrimsonPlus interconnect, and Chord Company Carnival Silverscreen will certainly help IMO.

 

[Anonymous]

Good to know that the Denon 710AE is capable of sounding very good. Any other recommendations for a good speaker match for the Denon amplifier and CD player combination?

I am curious about the cables. Why would the Rotel seem to be able to get "more" out of the QED cables than the Denon?

KnightAzul

 

[Anonymous]

How long have you had the new amp? it could just need running in.

My kit needs a good hour to warm up so that too could be a factor.

 

[Anonymous]

I have had the Denon amplifier at least two months. How long could be considered to be a normal "running in" time? And does running in mean just "on" or actually playing music?

KnightAzul

 

[Anonymous]

playing music, after 2 months it should be run in by now.

 

[Anonymous]

I am surprised by your amplifier upgrade as in my opinion the Rotel is superb. If it had been me I would have changed to a different type of B &W speakers first.

 

[Anonymous]

KnightAzul:
Hi,

I have recently been upgrading my HiFi components and now find myself in a situation that I seem to have taken a backward step!

Speakers: B&W DM 601 S2 (yep, bought them a long time ago!)

CD Player: Denon DCD-700AE (recent upgrade)

Amplifier: Denon PMA-710AE (most recent upgrade replacing a Rotel RA971-MKII)

(Cables: QED Silver Anniversary XT terminated speaker cables + QED Qunex 3 30th Anniversary Edition interconnect)

The logic being that the Denon CD player and Denon amplifier would make the perfect partnering (and also share the same remote which was a definite plus). However, the sound seems a little on the dull side with the treble muted a little. If I slip the Rotel amplifier back in then then sound definitely improves on the treble side, brighter even. The Denon amplifier received very good reviews, so could it be that the speakers are not the best match for this Denon CD/amplifier pairing? ...or could it be really that the 9 year old Rotel amplifier is actually better than the Denon?

Any guidance or help would be greatly appreciated!

KnightAzul

against the Denon I would expect the Rotel to have a better upper mid and treble. As mentioned on this forum quite regularly, B&W speakers seem to enjoy Rotel.

 

[Anonymous]

brittondave:I am surprised by your amplifier upgrade as in my opinion the Rotel is superb. If it had been me I would have changed to a different type of B &W speakers first.

You are right that the Rotel is an excellent amplifier. However, after 9 year of service and me starting to get lazy, I wanted an amplifier with a remote control

After having previously bought the Denon 700AE CD player, I thought that I could not go wrong with the matching Denon 710AE amplifier.

Now, I'm not sure what to do... ditch the B&W speakers if there are some more compatible speakers out there which will bring out a better sound from the Denon CD/Amp combo. Or swap out the Denon amplifier.

KnightAzul

 

[Anonymous]

I know what you mean, how lazy we are. I am currently looking at an Arcam amp for that very reason. I always found Denon quite warm sounding really. Maybe a move to something like the Monitor Audio BX 2 could be a good plan.

Anyway good luck

 

[Anonymous]

Took some action yesterday and went to my local HiFi shop with the intention of listening to other speakers with my Denon CD/amplifier setup. They didn't have my Denon combo but were happy to let me listen to different speakers.

Interestingly, they didn't have good words to say about my current B&W DM 601 S2 speakers, or the new B&W 685's, mainly their impression was that the bass was too boomy.

In my price range I tried:

Monitor Audio Bronze BX2 (interestingly the shop also didn''t particularly like these either)

Dali Concept 2

I managed to convince them to let me take the Dali Concept 2 speakers home for a trial. Wow! What a difference compared to my old B&W DM 601 S2's. The high end just completely opened up revealing lots more detail. Very impressed. But... I felt they were lacking a little in bass punch and "presence".Took them back this morning.

The good news is that this has restored my confidence in the Denon CD/amplifier combo and that it just needs to be carefully paired with speakers. The speaker search continues...

KnightAzul

 

[Anonymous]

Just to wrap this thread up. After trying:

* Dali Concept 2 - Great treble range but lacking in bass.

* KEF Q300 - Definitley not lacking in bass, but overall a "dull" sound. They are actually quite big too (depth-wise)

* Dali Lektor 3 - Somewhere between the above two... great treble and enough bass punch. Great sound with the Denon amp/cd combo.

I went for the Lektor 3's in the end.

KnightAzul

 

[Blackdawn]

Good choice. I've been running my Lektor 2's with an old Denon.