Help with sound staging and other speaker tweaks please

[lordmortlock]

I've just spent a pleasant evening listening to music. The Quad/proac combo is bedding in really well (and loves the spotify feed for some reason -sounds awesome) but I'm concious the sound stage is slighty lacking. With my old kit (budget Ca, mission floorstanders) I would sometimes get the most tremendous width to instruments and height to the vocal. It didn't happen all the time but when it did it was special. I haven't had that happen yet with this (admittedly still very new) kit.

The proacs are my first standmounters. What can I do to really nail that soundstage? Some toe in? I'm using Atacama nexus stands which are not yet filled. Will this help? And if so will sand do the trick or must I really buy atabites?

Thanks as always, Jake

 

[Anonymous]

How far apart are the speakers? How far do you sit from them?

 

[chebby]

lordmortlock:With my old kit (budget Ca, mission floorstanders) I would sometimes get the most tremendous width to instruments and height to the vocal.

If really wide instruments and tall vocals were actually on the recording I am sure you will hear it with the new gear. You are still getting used to it and your speakers are still running in.

 

[idc]

lordmortlock:I've just spent a pleasant evening listening to music. The Quad/proac combo is bedding in really well (and loves the spotify feed for some reason -sounds awesome)......

Off topic but same here, Spotify sounds fantastic with my kit. I get crackles with itunes through the headphones which are missing from Spotify.

 

[shooter]

Hello lordmortlock, The problem with soundstaging is their are no set rules. Its a process of elimination with positioning. Even though the Proac's are front ported they may need room to breath so positioning them away from the wall (if Poss) may help. To get te soundstage as you like it, just play around with the toe. Stick on your fave cd and have a listen. Move the speakers around until your happy, all speakers are different they may need to toe out (like mine) just find their ideal spot. On the stand's the Proac's like rigid high mass stands, filling them should help. Last off thier may be a difference in tweeter position from your old floorstanders to the new Proac's on stands, idealy tweeters should be at ear level when sat confortably This also can alter the soundstage. Hope this helps.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Fill the speakers. Sand will be fine (All your trying to do is add weight and stop the metal 'ringing')

Make sure the speakers are WELL conencted to the stands (Id suggest blu tak) and the stands are WELL connected to the floor (ONce your happy with a position to seat them properly). There should be NO movement in them or the speakers (Push them with your hands, if they 'rock' then you need to sort it)

As for positioning thats entirely down to your room etc. Usually toe them in some and away from side walls. Some speakers are best close to a back wall and some best away from them. Experiment.

You need the tweeter at 'ear level' too (You can offset the stands 'spikes' a little bit to compensate if need be). Personally my floorstanders are sat on 'plinths' to raise them up and make them 'solid'.

If theyre new theyll need a good 100 Hours running in time or more to 'bed in'

 

[lordmortlock]

igglebert:How far apart are the speakers? How far do you sit from them?

Either side of my sofa - probably 8/9 ft apart. Currently I spin a chair round and sit facing them to listen properly and I guess I'm the same distance away. I'll have a good sort out soon so I've got a prime listening spot from the sofa!

 

[lordmortlock]

Lovely thanks all. So its finding the time to have a really good experiment by the sounds of things

idc:
[Off topic but same here, Spotify sounds fantastic with my kit. I get crackles with itunes through the headphones which are missing from Spotify.

I know! I don't really understand it. Surely lossless files from itunes should destroy spotify? They don't.

 

[pwiles1968]

Have you seen the What Hi-Fi podcast about setting up Hi-Fi, some useful advice in there there is speaker distance and toe in advice toward the end, this is the one - http://www.whathifi.com/Video/Get-the-best-from-your-hi-fi/Vidcasts/Page2/

My setup procedure is similar with respect to distances, I listen the music with a vocal I know is in center of the stage, and toe the speakers in a little at a time to get this set, then over time move each speaker a little toe in out etc (only 1 speaker at a time) till i get it how I like it, can get it right first time can sometimes take weeks.

 

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK:
Fill the speakers. Sand will be fine (All your trying to do is add weight and stop the metal 'ringing')

Mmmmmmmmmm...........They will sound really muffled if you do and I think there may be a warranty problem in the future........

 

[a91gti]

I`ve always toed my speakers in and try to get them firing at my ears.

 

[aliEnRIK]

raym87:aliEnRIK:
Fill the speakers. Sand will be fine (All your trying to do is add weight and stop the metal 'ringing')

Mmmmmmmmmm...........They will sound really muffled if you do and I think there may be a warranty problem in the future........

haha

oops

 

[idc]

lordmortlock:Lovely thanks all. So its finding the time to have a really good experiment by the sounds of things idc:

[Off topic but same here, Spotify sounds fantastic with my kit. I get crackles with itunes through the headphones which are missing from Spotify.

I know! I don't really understand it. Surely lossless files from itunes should destroy spotify? They don't.

Phew, I thought it was just me! Out of Spotify, lossless from my ipod via a GQ-24 cable to amp and itunes on the PC via USB to DAC, Spotify wins. And that is with the lower bit rate, a higher one is to come.

 

[lordmortlock]

idc:lordmortlock:Lovely thanks all. So its finding the time to have a really good experiment by the sounds of things idc:

[Off topic but same here, Spotify sounds fantastic with my kit. I get crackles with itunes through the headphones which are missing from Spotify.

I know! I don't really understand it. Surely lossless files from itunes should destroy spotify? They don't.

Phew, I thought it was just me! Out of Spotify, lossless from my ipod via a GQ-24 cable to amp and itunes on the PC via USB to DAC, Spotify wins. And that is with the lower bit rate, a higher one is to come.

So whats that all about then? Why should spotify be a better source?

 

[lordmortlock]

idc I feel another thread coming on in computer based music. I wonder how many others have found the same.

 

[idc]

You are on, you start it!

EDIT - there was already a post on Spotify Bit Rates, so I have posted comments there.

 

[Anonymous]

Toeing in will increase focus and probably make the treble sound 'well lit' as you're more on axis with the tweeter. Sitting above a tweeter can make them sound less bright according to Sonus Faber, below more; not sure about this one.

Firing them straight out will increase sound stage size but may sacrifice imaging and clarity. Listening to tweeters off axis will potentially make them sound more dull but this depends on the design. In fact, all drivers will have a certain axis range that they're ideally positioned within. I heard that a lot of domestic speakers keep this field quite small to help and avoid room reflections. Mine are toed in about 20 degrees which seems to be a good compromise.

As stated, keep them well away from side walls and only use rear wall bass reinforcement if you absolutely have to. Such reinforcement tends to be less even and smooth than the actual speaker response and it can upset the balance a little. It can also upset the imaging too.

Make sure that anything in between the speakers is as clear as it can be, e.g. try and keep flat panel TVs set as far back as you can.