Help with Focal Bathys and Astell and Kern

[raoulthemerciless]

Hi all

I have Focal Bathys headphones and an Astell and Kern SR25MkII DAP. I love them both. And I love to use them wirelessly together.

However, 2 things bother me and I wonder if anyone has any ideas.

First, in London especially and especially in busy areas such as stations I get massive wireless disruption to the point I cannot listen to anything.

Second, I understand the Bathys DAC cannot cope with a DAP that also has a DAC meaning I cannot try the DAC mode on the Bathys. Perhaps I do not need to as the A+K DAC is already doing that quality work for me, but I have heard such good things about the Bathys DAC mode that I want to experience it with my A+K player.

If I can use the two devices wired, I am wondering if I can solve both issues above ... but in order to wire them together and use Bathys DAC mode, I need to turn off the DAC on the SR25 and I cannot see any way to do that? Or is there a wiring approach between the two devices which is going to work for me?

At present I am wondering if I need a different DAP to use with the Bathys DAC mode?

All help gratefully received!

Thanks

Paul

 

[Al ears]

Hi all

I have Focal Bathys headphones and an Astell and Kern SR25MkII DAP. I love them both. And I love to use them wirelessly together.

However, 2 things bother me and I wonder if anyone has any ideas.

First, in London especially and especially in busy areas such as stations I get massive wireless disruption to the point I cannot listen to anything.

Second, I understand the Bathys DAC cannot cope with a DAP that also has a DAC meaning I cannot try the DAC mode on the Bathys. Perhaps I do not need to as the A+K DAC is already doing that quality work for me, but I have heard such good things about the Bathys DAC mode that I want to experience it with my A+K player.

If I can use the two devices wired, I am wondering if I can solve both issues above ... but in order to wire them together and use Bathys DAC mode, I need to turn off the DAC on the SR25 and I cannot see any way to do that? Or is there a wiring approach between the two devices which is going to work for me?

At present I am wondering if I need a different DAP to use with the Bathys DAC mode?

All help gratefully received!

Thanks

Paul

I would be very doubtful you could find a dap that would do that as they are all designed to be a music player with inbuilt DAC that convert to analogue. Therefore they are best suited to wired headphones.
No point in buying a decent DAP if you are going to use an inferior method of getting said music to a pair of headphones.
Ditch one or the other.

 

[Vincent Kars]

If you connect over Bluetooth, the media player sends the audio file to the Bluetooth radio. It will be encoded using the protocol negotiated between sender and sink. At the receiver (the headphone in your case), de audio will be decoded by the Bluetooth receiver and send to the DAC of the headphone. Obvious the DAC of the DAP is not involved at all.

If you connect using a 3.5 mm, this is an analog connection. The DAC of the DAP does the conversion to analog,
However, the headphone must be on. Likely it still does some DSP. If that is the case, the analog signal is converted to digital, DSP applied and then converted to analog by the DAC of the headphone. As the Bathys has ANC, it indeed has a ADC on board.

If you connect using USB-C, now you have a digital connection with the source using a lossless protocol. Again as the connection is digital, the DAC of the source is not used. The conversion is done by the DAC of the headphone.

Basically you are listening to the DAC of the Bathys all of the time regardless the type of connection.
Only if you make a analog connection, the DAC of the DAP is involved as well.

 

[raoulthemerciless]

I would be very doubtful you could find a dap that would do that as they are all designed to be a music player with inbuilt DAC that convert to analogue. Therefore they are best suited to wired headphones.
No point in buying a decent DAP if you are going to use an inferior method of getting said music to a pair of headphones.
Ditch one or the other.

thanks for this - which is what I had concluded myself was likely to be the answer. So I am looking for a decent pair of wired headphones, that do not have their own DAC - any suggestions?

 

[Al ears]

If you connect over Bluetooth, the media player sends the audio file to the Bluetooth radio. It will be encoded using the protocol negotiated between sender and sink. At the receiver (the headphone in your case), de audio will be decoded by the Bluetooth receiver and send to the DAC of the headphone. Obvious the DAC of the DAP is not involved at all.

If you connect using a 3.5 mm, this is an analog connection. The DAC of the DAP does the conversion to analog,
However, the headphone must be on. Likely it still does some DSP. If that is the case, the analog signal is converted to digital, DSP applied and then converted to analog by the DAC of the headphone. As the Bathys has ANC, it indeed has a ADC on board.

If you connect using USB-C, now you have a digital connection with the source using a lossless protocol. Again as the connection is digital, the DAC of the source is not used. The conversion is done by the DAC of the headphone.

Basically you are listening to the DAC of the Bathys all of the time regardless the type of connection.
Only if you make a analog connection, the DAC of the DAP is involved as well.

Agreed.
The DAC in the DAP cannot be turned off, it comes down to how you take an output from that device.
Using Bluetooth, if you can actually do that, might be the only way to ensure the headphone dac is utilised.

 

[raoulthemerciless]

If you connect over Bluetooth, the media player sends the audio file to the Bluetooth radio. It will be encoded using the protocol negotiated between sender and sink. At the receiver (the headphone in your case), de audio will be decoded by the Bluetooth receiver and send to the DAC of the headphone. Obvious the DAC of the DAP is not involved at all.

If you connect using a 3.5 mm, this is an analog connection. The DAC of the DAP does the conversion to analog,
However, the headphone must be on. Likely it still does some DSP. If that is the case, the analog signal is converted to digital, DSP applied and then converted to analog by the DAC of the headphone. As the Bathys has ANC, it indeed has a ADC on board.

If you connect using USB-C, now you have a digital connection with the source using a lossless protocol. Again as the connection is digital, the DAC of the source is not used. The conversion is done by the DAC of the headphone.

Basically you are listening to the DAC of the Bathys all of the time regardless the type of connection.
Only if you make a analog connection, the DAC of the DAP is involved as well.

OK thanks, but I am a little confused by some of this.

If I am using Bluetooth, are you saying I am getting the benefit of the Bathys DAC anyway? I am losing out on whatever quality the A+K DAC provides but am getting the Bathys one instead so if they are of similar quality no problem?

Regarding wired options, when I have tried this before and switched on DAC mode on the Bathys, the DAP volume has gone up to full and cannot be adjusted making it unworkable.

I am wondering if my best bet is a wired connection but not using the Bathys DAC mode, so I get the DAC from the DAP instead ... but your comments imply the 2 DACs are always working, with the Bathys "overruling" the DAP in some circumstances?

I suppose at the end of the day what I want to know is what is the best way to connect the DAP and the Bathys with a wire - USB C, or a more traditional 3.5 jack, or one of the other size jacks on the A+K perhaps?

 

[raoulthemerciless]

Agreed.
The DAC in the DAP cannot be turned off, it comes down to how you take an output from that device.
Using Bluetooth, if you can actually do that, might be the only way to ensure the headphone dac is utilised.

so no need to switch on DAC mode on the Bathys and use a wire? Bluetooth (which I am currently using) will use the DAC anyway as it has no choice? (and the reason the wireless sound quality on these headphones is so good presumably).

Regarding a wired approach, should I go for that, is there any wire connection I might try that could damage either product?