Help me unsplit my mind... PDP-508XD or TH-46PZ85

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Hi guys,

I am going nuts being split between the choices of either Pioneer PDP-508XD or Panasonic TH-46PZ85 - I hope that you might be able to contribute with something to make my choice, and life, easier...

Right now I have the choice between the 508XD and the 46PZ85 at around the same price and I really don't know what to do - I know that the Pana has a full HD (Pioneer is at 1366x768), the Pioneer is probably a little better image although it is last years model of KURO - and this is speculation as Pioneer spots their generation 8 panel where the Pana is a new generation 11.

Please don't spend too much of your time going through reviews - I have been there, done that and gotten a few t-shirts... and I am still torn ;o) The most obvious reason is of course that Pioneer was reviewed last year winning hands down - whereas the Panasonic was released this year and has received good reviews - yet I have still to find someone who might draw direct similarities between them.

My living room is quite modest at about 24 sqm - but I dont think that the size difference between the 46 and 50 should make all the difference in the world. I watch about 80% SD and 20% HD material - normal TV is delivered from external decoder over HDMI. Blue Ray from Panasonic's BD50. Sound is provided by external means in a decent 5.1 setup using Audiovector speakers and sub.

An additional piece of information - I plan on keeping this set for about 2-3 years before dumping it on the used market...

Please help if you have any innovative thoughts on this - of if you have tried them head to head...

Thanks,
Claus
 

FuzzyinLondon

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If you're watching 80% SD, I would go with the Pioneer, absolutely no question about it. The Panasonic is a good screen for HD but I find the SD performance of the new Full HD Panasonics slightly disappointing. I also think that the Pio is a match for the PZ85 with HD, despite its lower pixel count, but this does depend on your viewing distance to a certain extent.
 
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Anonymous

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Well, U will find many recommendations for Kuros, but: at 50" resolution difference is obvious to all, and 508 have much stronger reflection of ambient lightning than Panasonic. Difference in blackness of black is really small, only noticeable in absolute dark environment.

Id go for Panny.

P.S. And no, SD picture is NOT way better on Kuros... Especially if U have some sort of upscaling; in that case SD on KURO is WORSE (softer picture).
 
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Anonymous

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Hehe ...I guess my hope for a plain, simple, and most of all obvious answer was a little too much to expect - I had a feeling!

Does anybody have an idea on how they compare if your ass is seated about 3 meters from the screen? Is 50" too big? Is 46? ...and if I go down to a 42, then I guess that I might not even want to worry too much about full HD anyway, as the difference should be negliable!? ...then perhaps, I should just go with the Pioneer 428XD?

Thanks for all the good comments so far...

Kind regards,
Claus
 
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Anonymous

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3 metres away (10ft) I would go for the 46/50".

As most of your viewing is SD, I would go for the Pioneer. It will also probably hold its second value better than the Panny when you come to sell it.
 
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Anonymous

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Hi, me again..

I am looking 42" from 3m; at first, TV looks really big, now im sorry its not even bigger...

Yesterday i was in a store with 428XD side by side with 42PZ85, 42PX80, Sony 40 W4000 and lots of LCD-s. 428 had really soft image with HD source, much softer than same-resolution Panny PX. In side by side comparison, Pio was the worst - although, it had the blackest black, and great colours. But, HD on 428XD looks like upscaled DVD on FullHD pannys... Not to mention, image stutters in comparison with Panny 85 series (lack of motion compenstaion technology). Although, same goes to Sony W series...
 

FuzzyinLondon

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Claus, I think 3m is borderline for a 50". I sit about that distance from a 42" and it's great but obviously it very much comes down to personal preference. A 50" set at that size might be great for movies but might be a bit big for normal SD viewing. A 46" set might be a better compromise. You'll have trouble finding a 428XD as they seem to be sold out everywhere. You might find the odd 4280XD around at a few places.

SasaK:
Well, U will find many recommendations for Kuros, but: at 50" resolution difference is obvious to all, and 508 have much stronger reflection of ambient lightning than Panasonic. Difference in blackness of black is really small, only noticeable in absolute dark environment.

Id go for Panny.

P.S. And no, SD picture is NOT way better on Kuros... Especially if U have some sort of upscaling; in that case SD on KURO is WORSE (softer picture).

You seem to have got the wrong end of the stick from what I said. Of course, close-up the difference in resolution might be noticeable but, having seen a 508XD running HD alongside an LX508D from about 10ft, I'm not convinced it's a huge factor. In fact, I hardly noticed any difference at all. A Full HD Panasonic definitely can come close to the quality of the Kuro by going through an external scaler but then you also have to factor in the cost of the scaler. If you really want to do it justice, you need to go through something like an Onkyo 875 which is an extra £700. I've got nothing against the Panasonic screens. I just got my folks a 37PX80 which is an excellent set for the money. However, I think their Full HD screens could be better with SD.
 

FuzzyinLondon

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SasaK:
Hi, me again..

I am looking 42" from 3m; at first, TV looks really big, now im sorry its not even bigger...

Yesterday i was in a store with 428XD side by side with 42PZ85, 42PX80, Sony 40 W4000 and lots of LCD-s. 428 had really soft image with HD source, much softer than same-resolution Panny PX. In side by side comparison, Pio was the worst - although, it had the blackest black, and great colours. But, HD on 428XD looks like upscaled DVD on FullHD pannys... Not to mention, image stutters in comparison with Panny 85 series (lack of motion compenstaion technology). Although, same goes to Sony W series...

If you looked at it in store and it's stuttering, then it's set up wrong for a start. I'm not prejudging the other sets as I doubt they were set up properly either. Most likely, you were looking at them all with out-of-box settings.
 
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Anonymous

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I checked and adjusted settings, didnt find out if there is any type of motion compensation like IFC on Pannys...Although, because of great number of setting options, its possible I missed that... But, as far as i know, 428 has no IFC options...
 
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Anonymous

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SasaK:

P.S. And no, SD picture is NOT way better on Kuros... Especially if U have some sort of upscaling; in that case SD on KURO is WORSE (softer picture).

Hi guys,

Is this true - does the Panny outperform the Pioneer in displaying SD content? So far I have heard that the Panny does a pretty mediocre or at best - average - job in displaying that? Also - I have heard a few complaints about the IFC - and the general consensus is that people are about 50/50 split in whether to engage or leave it off.

PS. An exact measurement is that the viewing distance is just about 3,5 meters (not that it matters SOOO much, but since the choice is most likely to be decided on nitty-gritty details, I might as well be a little more precise)

Once again - I appreciate all the efforts excerted to (hopefully) make me capable of making an informed (and correct) choice... ;o)

Kind regards,
Claus
 
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Anonymous

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Its true, Pannys are in worst case as good as Kuro in SD content, but ONLY if they receive quality upscaled signal. In side by side comparison with Atlanta STB (upscale IPTV signal to 1080i), and same program on 4280 with its digital tuner, picture was better on Panny. When I connected Kuro on Atlanta, it was noticeable improvement, but i still prefer Panny, although not by large margin. But, with upscaled DVD, and especially HD content, Kuro was way softer, Panny shows more details. I would say, that upscaled DVD on Panny looks like HD on Kuro. Never really liked softness of HD picture on Kuros...
 
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Anonymous

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SasaK:Its true, Pannys are in worst case as good as Kuro in SD content, but ONLY if they receive quality upscaled signal. In side by side comparison with Atlanta STB (upscale IPTV signal to 1080i), and same program on 4280 with its digital tuner, picture was better on Panny. When I connected Kuro on Atlanta, it was noticeable improvement, but i still prefer Panny, although not by large margin. But, with upscaled DVD, and especially HD content, Kuro was way softer, Panny shows more details. I would say, that upscaled DVD on Panny looks like HD on Kuro. Never really liked softness of HD picture on Kuros...

Thanks Sasa,

Now another crazy input is that I should seriously consider the Sony LCD 46W4000 as a contender for the title - apparently LCD has made some progress while I have been looking in the other direction?

Apart from the obvious benefits of LCD (less power consumption, less heat emission, no burn-in, etc) is it really true that LCDs have made such a quantum leap, that various reviewers are now comparing them to overall performance of plasmas?

Kind regards,
Claus
 
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Anonymous

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Yup, its true. I really liked W series, although they have one flaw - lack of motion compensation (smoothing movements and panning).

For example, black level of 40W4000 is same as Panasonic plasmas (0,5 cd/m2 after calibration), while last year Kuros manage 0,3 cd/m2 (this year models: stunning 0,04 cd/m2) Didnt see 46W4000, but 40W4000 has great SD performance, great colors and everything. In fact, only side by side comparison with Pany plasma shows slightly
worse colors of W series, so i reckon its best LCD right now... But, i
would wait for new X series. Way better picture then 428 in HD, which tends to be darker, and way more reflective. Thats really annoying if u look TV during daylight.

One more thing: in daylight, black is much blacker on LCD than plasma, specially Panny whose black looks gray in rooms with lots of light. Also, plasma looks pale in that environment.
 

Smarted

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I have a 50" and sit 3.5m away, the screen is great for movies but a little big for normal TV viewing, I watch movies all the time so for me it's perfect but if you watch a lot of TV 46" or 42" may be better. (for me it's Pioneer
emotion-5.gif
)
 

FuzzyinLondon

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Everyone's eyes are different so, if you can, you have to get yourself down to a friendly dealer and decide for yourself. That really is the only way to do it properly. Take along a favourite DVD and Blu-Ray and some recommended settings for the tvs you're considering and ask for the remotes. Any dealer worth their salt will let you have a play. You also have to consider your budget and try and stick to it. If I hadn't, I would've ended up spending three grand on an LX508 eight months ago and I'd still be paying for it now. In the end, I tested a Sony W3000, a Panasonic 42PZ70, and a Pioneer 4280XD side by side. The Pioneer won and I still haven't seen a tv at that size to regret me making that purchase. Taking price out of the equation, it's still considered the best around. Value-wise, I consider the 42PX80 to be the best around at that size for anyone with a viewing distance such as your own. On a 42inch set, you will see no benefit from Full HD at that distance.

The statistics mean nothing. I could go on about how, when calibrated, the Kuros come closest to the D65 colour standard used by broadcasters and movie studios but it would be pointless. If you don't like the the picture, then what does it matter how accurate the picture is. At the end of the day, the only person who can decide which tv has the best picture for you is you.
 
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Anonymous

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SasaK:

One more thing: in daylight, black is much blacker on LCD than plasma, specially Panny whose black looks gray in rooms with lots of light. Also, plasma looks pale in that environment. Nothing wrong with my plasma's blacks/colours in daylight. It doesnt like direct sunlight, true, but when you want to settle down and watch a decent film in the evening (when most serious watching is done) nothing beats a plasma.

when did you last go to the cinema and watch a film under strong lights? LCDs are good for conservatories, though.
 
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Anonymous

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Well, I have plasma, before i had LCD. Plasma is better in dark conditions, LCD in rooms with lots of light. I live in penthouse, TV is next to 3 120*180cm windows facing south, and during daylight thats a problem... Specially now, when days are much longer than during winter.

Only Kuros and Panny series 80 are better then really good LCD like Sony W and X series, even in darker conditions... I am really happy with 42PZ85, but i wanted Sony X in first place. Plasma was way cheaper (cca 1000 pounds vs 1.800 pounds for Sony 40X3500) and thats why i bought it...
 
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Anonymous

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Hi guys,

Thanks for all the insightful comments...

I am currently living in Ukraine, which has severely limited my possibility to go see the sets at a local store - and instead I sent a trusted friend on the streets of Copenhagen.

Based on the inputs of this trusted friend, I think I will opt for the 508XD - the other sets were absolutely brilliant, but it seems that the 50" gen 8 is just what I am looking for in a competent all-rounder.

Again - thanks for the enlightened discussion...
emotion-15.gif


Kind regards,
Claus

PS. I just want to quote FuzzyinLondon's wise words - it cannot be repeated too often - staring yourself too blind on the specs, might not give you exactly what you are hoping for

FuzzyinLondon:

The statistics mean nothing. I could go on about how, when
calibrated, the Kuros come closest to the D65 colour standard used by
broadcasters and movie studios but it would be pointless. If you don't
like the the picture, then what does it matter how accurate the picture
is. At the end of the day, the only person who can decide which tv has
the best picture for you is you.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
trille:

Based on the inputs of this trusted friend, I think I will opt for the 508XD - the other sets were absolutely brilliant, but it seems that the 50" gen 8 is just what I am looking for in a competent all-rounder.

Just to finish this off ...I accidentally watched 508XD side by side with LX5090 ...and I have to admit that I finally bit the dust... The LX5090 is, hands down, the best I have ever seen... I have stretched my budget a little, and ended up feeling absolutely fantastic about the choice - it is just gorgeous... The real reason for me was that I have a good friend that started bringing me lots of HD material and having a full HD then makes a lot of sense in the end...

Kind regards,
Claus
 

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