Help choosing floorstanding speakers

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Anonymous

Guest
Congratulations!

If you can, do post a review when you've got them connected. It's always nice to read more about speakers (especially if I don't know them yet) :)
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Thanks!

I'm afraid that you'll have to wait some time before I can get everything up and running since probably the DAC will not arrive sooner than one month, but meanwhile I can try with my current setup, although I know that partnering the beresford TC-7510 + Rotel + Castle Conway 3 will result in too much up end and harsh treble, while losing some details in depth and bass.

But I will do it if you want, and then review it again as soon as the other pieces of my equipment arrive :)

I fear that you'll never hear of the Conways anymore, since they have been discontinued quite a long time ago (2006 I think, since when Castle went bankrupt and had been resurrected by the IAG group) and I've been lucky enough to get a great price on a couple of perfect shape ex-demo.

Two things I haven't considered before and I realize I've been very, very stupid not to ask:

1 - I just realized that my Rotel RA-04SE has only 40W output but I never thought that they might not be enough for the Castle Conway 3... They just sound so loud and so confident with my Diamonds 10.1 that I never questioned their power.

Luckily, the Conways should be fairly easy to drive, since they have a nice 92 db for 1 W at 1 m sensitivity.

Anyway, what do you think? Is my Rotel enough for them?

2 - The floor of the living room is made of marble... should I consider buying something to put under the speakers? Maybe granite? Wood?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Here we go! Get ready for a wall of text! :D

The Conways arrived 2 days ago, so I moved the RA-04SE and the Beresford in my living room (the NFB-2 DAC still hasn't arrived... damn customs!!).

I hooked 'em up and used my sony dvd player (which curiously have quite a nice mechanic for a budget dvd player) as a source and played some of my favorites.

I started with Eric Clapton, Wonderful Tonight.

As soon as the music started I couldn't resist: I cranked up the volume to 10 o'clock.

The bass was just a bit bloated (I wasn't using the spikes provided because they would have ruined the marble floor and err... well... in the heat of the moment I hooked up the speakers inverted - the left one on the right and the right one on the left :p ) but tuneful, the vocals were ridiculously "real", full of emotion, looked like Eric was there, singing in front of me (well, I could tell it was a bit on the right, not exactly at the center). The music filled the room, it was magic.

Afraid that the bass might become boomy I continued with Let It Grow. This music has very low tonalities and can be a nightmare in a wrong environment because the mid-lows will just bounce from wall to wall.

Luckily, it seemed that the mid-lows where not the problem, as the vocals were clean and tight, no boom.

Next up are Dire Straits with a classic: Sultan of Swing.

This music has great pace, awesome rhythm, clean tight bass, great guitars.

The Conways despatched them effortlessly.

I admit it: I cranked up the volume to 11 o'clock. And the Rotel started tapping on my shoulder saying "man, give me a break".

When really pushed, the RA-04SE showed its limits in power, but then 11 o'clock volume is very, VERY loud.

I lowered it back to 10, which was more comfortable.

The bass was very controlled, tight, tuneful, while the guitars where great, very detailed but not too forward: they were "in place".

I continued with a song I really love: Romeo and Juliet.

I couldn't resist: I turned the volume just a tiny bit up.

The guitar at the start were outstanding but I heard some strange noise, a bit like cracking, coming from the left tweeter. I panicked thinking that I had done some damage, stopped the music, lowered the volume and then tried again, but that little noise was still there.

So I approached the tweeter to listen more carefully and guess what? It wasn't a noise. It was Knopfler's fingers ticking the chords of his guitar.

Insane.

The amount of detail that these speakers are capable to dig is just plain ridiculous.

And I'm still running the old, modest Beresford TC-7510 DAC.

Back on the track now: Knopfler's voice was rendered very softly, just like the way they were intended to be.

The attack with the drums was precise, firm, without slouch.

Next in the mix is Peter Gabriel.

Here Comes the Flood, reinterpreted in the Shaking the Tree is an excellent benchmark: its subtlety may reveal the limits in transparency and accuracy of a speaker/amp.

The song is made of a piano base and Gabriel's divine voice.

The Conways did an excellent job, just as expected.

The piano was a bit forward but, being a (not so good) pianist myself, I appreciated it. The vocals were great, precise and alive: they almost left me breathless.

But at a certain point in the song a very high hiss started! Argh!! That was something like a 18 Khz hiss which was driving me crazy! It was audible only when Gabriel singed more loudly so it must be the microphone's fault during the registration since it wasn't audible during the rest of the song, nor during other tracks.

Again, that was just plain insane.

Then I moved onto something more recent: Linkin Park's "A Thousand Suns" album.

The Requiem (album's first track which serves as intro) was reproduced effortlessly: delicious, sweet (synthesized) vocals, lot of texture and detail.

Then I skipped to the sixth track: Robot Boy.

I'm definitely in love with this song.

It is so delicate yet so energic, full of pathos and with a great crescendo at the end.

The bass in this track is capable of pulling down an entire house: it is very low and enveloping.

After the little piano intro, the bass kicked in and the room started to shake.

It did matter little as the vocals where really clean, not contaminated by low frequencies.

Yes the bass were a little boomy at some points but man, that crescendo near the end really left me breathless.

At the end of the listening session my mother, who was theoretically watching the tv in her bedroom at the opposite side of the house, said "That sounded really good. Please, play more."

Next day I had to find a way to decouple the speakers from the room without using the spikes that would ruin the marble floor (and got me killed).

So I just went to the nearest hardware store and bought some... err... "blind dices"? I'm literally translating from italian, I mean these:

http://www.vibierre.it/upload/dadi-ciechi.jpg

Anyway, I put them under the speakers with some scotch tape so that I could adjust them.

Again, I forgot to swap the speakers left-right.

It was time for another listening session.

First off is Mr. Oldfield with Moonlight Shadow.

I bet you all know the song, so I'll just skip the description. :p

The bass was still there, very very tight and precise, really tuneful. If possible, the speakers sounded even more transparent and clear.

The guitar attack was reproduced effortlessly and, as you would expect, the vocals were amazing.

Then it came the time to check on that boomy bass.

Again Mike Oldfield was the chosen author, this time with his last (awesome IMHO) creation: Music of the Spheres.

This album sounded a lot like Tubolar Bells, but with more power.

The music is full, poweful, almost overwhelming.

Starting with the first track, Harbinger, I could definitely tell that the bass was finally under control: boom's not allowed in my house, sorry.

The music was very powerful, rich in details, but the instrument separation wasn't top notch: I think I'll have to wait for the new DAC to arrive to unleash the true marvel of those speakers.

I skipped then to Shabda, which has a part with terrific drums, very very loud and very low.

Luckily the boom was extremely reduced but I'd underline that that drums are the lowest and louder I've ever heard in a track, so it's ok.

Finally, I put in Jimmy Somerville's Dare to Love album.

I admit that I only really like the first track, the rest of the album is a bit garbage in my opinion.

So I played heartbeat.

It starts with some electric piano and (surprise!) a heartbeat base.

They were both rendered very well.

Jimmy's vocals were treated properly and were a bit forward, but that's ok because he has a very expressive, high pitch voice.

When I'll get the DAC I'll write another review to let you know how the ensemble works.

Meanwhile, I'll try to remember to switch the speakers' position
smiley-undecided.gif
 

MajorFubar

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This has been a brilliant thread to read through, I have only first read it today. Thank you for starting it and keeping it updated.

Regarding the spikes, another option to stop them scratching your marble floor would be to put metal coins under them.

I'm not sure how that would affect the sound? Maybe you could try it and let us know what difference it makes, if any.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Once I have the entire system hooked up and running I'll surely try putting coins under the spikes as well as playing with speakers' position and toeing.

I was considering buying a power amp (my rotel ra-04SE has Pre outs) when I'll have the money, probably the Rotel RB-1552 to keep the sound signature, so I'll not stress too much my amp when listening music loud.

Or maybe buy a new integrated, the rotel RA-1520.

Well, this is something that may be discussed later on... I'll be 25 on september, so I guess that I'll receive some money and I'll have to choose between upgrading my main iMac 24" to the new 27" (maxed out) or buying a power amp/new integrated.
 
MajorFubar said:
This has been a brilliant thread to read through, I have only first read it today. Thank you for starting it and keeping it updated.

Me too, by coincidence. I could almost hear that Dire Straits guitar riff...

Nearer the beginning of your story I would have chipped in to say that paying more attention to securing your Wharfedales will repay the effort. I'll say that now regarding your Castles. You can easily under-estimate the impact of secure mounting, good alignment, careful positioning, the right connections (and so on). Fussing over this is worth the effort.

A nice slab of Italian marble would be a good base for your speakers (I have as much for my Italian speakers!) and then the spikes can do their job - in particular, to prevent forward and back movement, so your speakers vibrate the air, not wobble the floorboards!

Best wishes.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
nopiano said:
Me too, by coincidence. I could almost hear that Dire Straits guitar riff...

Nearer the beginning of your story I would have chipped in to say that paying more attention to securing your Wharfedales will repay the effort. I'll say that now regarding your Castles. You can easily under-estimate the impact of secure mounting, good alignment, careful positioning, the right connections (and so on). Fussing over this is worth the effort.

A nice slab of Italian marble would be a good base for your speakers (I have as much for my Italian speakers!) and then the spikes can do their job - in particular, to prevent forward and back movement, so your speakers vibrate the air, not wobble the floorboards!

Best wishes.

Thanks for the input.

I'm not fussing too much now about securing everything because my system is not complete, it's in a situation of transition. When I'll have all the equipment I'll be trying all the aforementioned suggestions.

What kind of marble do you recommend? The smooth one (which is the one the floor is made of) or the rough one?

p.s.: nice system!
 
donluca said:
What kind of marble do you recommend? The smooth one (which is the one the floor is made of) or the rough one?

I'm afraid I've never tried any alternatives. Sonus Faber recommended the marble slabs, and I used them as they look great and they protect the floor. If I had marble floors, I would try the coin solution suggested above, probably using a tiny blob of blutak or double-sided tape to keep them in place.

A nice piece of hardwood might work instead, though will probably have a different 'colour' to marble. Well worth playing around though.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Interesting!

Looks like I'll have a lot of fun trying all the possible combinations to sort out what sounds best!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Quite an entertaining read. Your writing is infectious, you certainly had me looking up the same songs (where available) to try to match your descriptions :)

donluca said:
Eric Clapton, Wonderful Tonight, Let It Grow
The boominess might be due to not securing the speakers properly, but then again, a stone floor should not cause that much resonance. Did you try closing the reflex ports (if any)? There certainly is no boomy bass in my version of Wonderful Tonight -- for me Let It Grow sounds more woolly in the bass, but I only have that song as 160kbps mp3.

Dire Straits with a classic: Sultan of Swing, Romeo and Juliet
Interesting. I've never noticed the finger tapping before, but you're right: if it were played from vinyl, I'd have suspected dust, it's that subtle.

Next in the mix is Peter Gabriel. Here Comes the Flood
Not my favourite track, but a great benchmark and I can understand its appeal to a pianist. I was unable to reproduce the high hiss though, other than the natural s's in Peter's voice. I agree with you on the piano, it sounds like an unnatural effect has been applied to it. Either that, or the piano was in a concert hall and the microphones were placed way too close.

I don't have the rest of the songs for comparison, but it really sound like you've chosen the right speakers for you. I know it was a bit of a gamble, so congratulations again!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
tremon said:
There certainly is no boomy bass in my version of Wonderful Tonight -- for me Let It Grow sounds more woolly in the bass, but I only have that song as 160kbps mp3.

My bad, I didn't intend bass but rather the medium-low frequencies, were the vocals lie.

Anyway, I'll try to better secure the speakers.

Meanwhile, try to snatch a lossless version of the song and compare it to your lossy version, I'm curious to know if there are any substantial differences (though I'm quite sure that there definitely are).

tremon said:
I was unable to reproduce the high hiss though, other than the natural s's in Peter's voice.

Try with the wonderful "Don't give up" duet with Kate Bush. There's a point, when Kate's voice kick in, where the hiss becomes clearly audible for 2 seconds or so, then fades.

tremon said:
I don't have the rest of the songs for comparison, but it really sound like you've chosen the right speakers for you. I know it was a bit of a gamble, so congratulations again!

Thank you so much!

By the way, my speakers are bottom ported and I can tune the bass output by adjusting the distance between the speaker and the base.

As of now, I've put all the separators in it, this way the bass should be less present and more tamed.

I'm really happy to see that so many people are enjoying reading my adventures, that just makes me want to write more.

Yesterday I've loaded some other albums in my system.

I've made a comparison between Alan Parson Project's "Turn of a Friendly Card" and Muse's "Origin of Symmetry".

The first one is godlike recorded, mixed and mastered, the second suffers the ridiculously high dynamic compression that today's album are applied.

Well, the Alan Parson's masterpiece sounded heavenly.

I can state without a hitch that it is the best sounding CD I have in my collection.

It is so dynamic, so enticing, it's magic.

Just try and listen to "Snake Eyes", the second part of the track that gave the album the name. The percussions at the start are impressive, they literally seem to come at you, out from the speakers.

On the other hand, Muse's CD is a total disaster (just like most of the modern CD's mastered nowadays).

It has no dynamic, it is just loud.

Equally loud from the start, to the end.

I love the band, I really do, but I think I'll continue listening them on my iPod or through my 5.1 that I have in my bedroom.

Yesterday I also tried Oasis' "Heathen Chemistry".

It sounded powerful and clear, great instrument separation.

The first track, The Hindu Times, is one of my Oasis' all time favorites.

The sound is literally overwhelming (in a good way), you get carried away through all the track with the powerful guitars and basses and when you reach the end of the song you can't help staying there, almost daydreaming, in amazement.

"Stop crying your heart out" vocals are exquisite, nothing new here.

That's all for now.

Unfortunately exams are near and I'll be all the day at university studying with my friends, so I won't have much time to play with different setups, position or listening CDs.

When the DAC arrives I'll try to test the ensemble little by little and then write something here.

Thank you guys for following and giving your precious opinion, I really appreciate it. :)

I'll be writing the final, big review, as soon as possible, hoping not to disappoint anyone's expectations :D
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I'm just posting to say that the DAC arrived.

It is awesome but my source (the eeeBox) jitters like there's no tomorrow.

Got to do something about it.

EDIT: alright, I'm taking care of the jitter and interference problem.

First of all I've bought a USB galvanic isolator, so the data lines will be clean and I'll remove ground loops.

I took this one: http://electronicsshop.dk/?id=1038

It should be here by the end of the week.

Then I'm about to buy the Audio-GD Digital Interface which essentially introduces Async USB in my chain, reclocks the signal and cleans it from jitter, outputting a sweet clean signal through a nice real 75 ohm BNC socket.

Then I'll mod my DAC by removing the RCA Coax and swap it with another real 75 ohm BNC socket, so I will be connecting the DI to my DAC with a BNC-to-BNC cable. This should also give more clarity and instrument separation.

Let's see how this all wraps up in the end!

Meanwhile I've secured the speakers with 3 blind dices each: now they are perfectly decoupled from the room and almost all the boom and vibration is gone.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Guys, I'm almost done on the main system, I'm tweaking the last bits to make it sound perfect and then you'll have possibly the longest user review of his system ever, with details on listening of different genres.

I've discovered something amazing about true 75 ohm BNC connectors and cables... stay tuned for details about this, it's really a revelation. ;)
 

iceman16

Well-known member
donluca said:
Hi everyone,

this is my first post on the forums, I hope not to screw anything up :p

I'm looking for some tips because I'm about to buy a pair of floorstanding speakers for a little room (3 m x 4 m which is more or less 10 ft x 13 ft, sorry about the metrics, I'm italian).

This room has plenty of furniture: an upright piano, heavy curtains, two 3-seat sofas, 1 small table in the middle of the room, another bigger table on a side of the room, a carpet that covers almost all the floor and a little library, so acoustics should not be a problem.

Despite this, positioning the speaker is a problem indeed, because the only good spot to place them is at the piano's sides, on the longer side of the room.

The listening position will be at 3 meters (10 ft) from the speakers with those standing 20 cm (0,65 ft) away from the back wall and 80 cm (2,5 ft) from the side walls.

I fear that the small distance from the walls can be a bit of trouble for floorstanders.

My equipment is an Asus eeeBox as a primary source, USB connected to an Audio-GD NFB-2 (modded with a DIR9001 chip) straight into my Rotel RA04-SE.

I was looking forward the Mordaunt Short Aviano 6 as floorstanders mainly because I am a detail maniac and love revealing speakers (I have a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 and I'm in love with them) and I found a good ex-demo offer here in italy at 600€ (530£) shipping included, but I'm more than willing to change my mind.

Bookshelf or standmount speakers are not a valid alternative as I already have them and want to try the sound of a good floorstanding speaker.

The budget for the speakers is 900£.

Thanks in advance :)

P.S.: some of you may be thinking "why doesn't this italian just post in italian forums so he doesn't have to mess with different metrics, currency and all that jazz?". I've always followed this website and the forums and I think that they are great and unbiased.

Reviewers are pro and people in the community really know and cares about hi-fi.

That's why I'm posting here :)

how about Proac's studio range.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Thanks for the tip but I'm afraid you're a bit late :p

If you follow the thread, you'll discover that this has become more like an adventure diary of my new audio system where I'm sharing impressions on each upgrade I'm doing and getting advices on what to do next.

Now my system is complete, I'm just waiting for the ferrite beads I've ordered on ebay from spain to arrive, so I can put them on the DC cable running from the Digital Interface to its PSU. They should be here within next week.

Unfortunately then I'll be off to Ibiza for a week of self-distruction and then, when (and if) I'll recover, I'll start my listening session so I can write a proper review here and tell all my discoveries while building this system, hoping that it will be a constructive and informative post without boring anyone. :D
 

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