Isn't a friend's opinion a bit like a review? Just someone else's thoughts? If you like what you hear, irrespective of said opinions and it floats your boat, that's what counts surely?
John Duncan
Well-known member
fast eddie:Are people not missing the point? What does it matter if Chebby told him he liked it when he didn't. I'm sure if the friend wanted an honest answer about if Chebby liked it he'd have gotten it. People ask all the time "what do you think" when they just want confirmation.
From what i've seen on the forum (not reading every thread every day) this is the first time some one's given an opinion that the DM isn't the best thing since sliced bread, and that a mid priced CD player is still better.
I'm with you Ed - it's refreshing to hear somebody not like it! Overhung bass is absolutel not what I'm hearing though, be interesting to hear your thoughts with XLRs in place (though honestly I wouldn't expect it to change).
From what i've seen on the forum (not reading every thread every day) this is the first time some one's given an opinion that the DM isn't the best thing since sliced bread, and that a mid priced CD player is still better.
I'm with you Ed - it's refreshing to hear somebody not like it! Overhung bass is absolutel not what I'm hearing though, be interesting to hear your thoughts with XLRs in place (though honestly I wouldn't expect it to change).
Are'nt you guys forgetting something? £200 RRP for a start, XLR balanced, switchable filters ... no budget player below £500 can match that.
The 'budget' giveaway is in the choice of 8740 Dac's, which impose certain limitations but thats about it. Many 'mid priced' players costing many hundred pounds more use it and, imo, don't sound significantly better. Something like the 840C is a clear step up but I honestly haven't heard anything near the price that would give the DM a fright, never mind run for money.
regards
The 'budget' giveaway is in the choice of 8740 Dac's, which impose certain limitations but thats about it. Many 'mid priced' players costing many hundred pounds more use it and, imo, don't sound significantly better. Something like the 840C is a clear step up but I honestly haven't heard anything near the price that would give the DM a fright, never mind run for money.
regards
Once it has 'burnt in' a bit - and is connected optimally with the balanced connects - things may change.
I am used to hearing his system with (mostly) his P3-24/DL103R and (occasionally) the Apollo.
Tomorrow (if I get time and everyone is out) I am going to swing my own (USB) DAC's cable over from my laptop system - which normally hosts my iTunes - and plug it into our own iMac to see if the 'warmth' and bass goes up a notch. This is NOT to compare my DAC with the DMagic (entirely different systems) but to see if the iMac contributes a 'thicker' more bassy sound. My iMac and my friend's iMac are very similar vintage (the very last of the white Intel Core 2 Duo 2007 machines.)
I am used to hearing his system with (mostly) his P3-24/DL103R and (occasionally) the Apollo.
Tomorrow (if I get time and everyone is out) I am going to swing my own (USB) DAC's cable over from my laptop system - which normally hosts my iTunes - and plug it into our own iMac to see if the 'warmth' and bass goes up a notch. This is NOT to compare my DAC with the DMagic (entirely different systems) but to see if the iMac contributes a 'thicker' more bassy sound. My iMac and my friend's iMac are very similar vintage (the very last of the white Intel Core 2 Duo 2007 machines.)
John Duncan
Well-known member
chebby:Once it has 'burnt in' a bit - and is connected optimally with the balanced connects - things may change.
I am used to hearing his system with (mostly) his P3-24/DL103R and (occasionally) the Apollo.
Tomorrow (if I get time and everyone is out) I am going to swing my own (USB) DAC's cable over from my laptop system - which normally hosts my iTunes - and plug it into our own iMac to see if the 'warmth' and bass goes up a notch. This is NOT to compare my DAC with the DMagic (entirely different systems) but to see if the iMac contributes a 'thicker' more bassy sound. My iMac and my friend's iMac are very similar vintage (the very last of the white Intel Core 2 Duo 2007 machines.)
Cool. I have to say I'm surprised - not at the fact that you didn't like it - which is everybody's absolute right, obviously - but at the nature of the not-liking; timing in the bass and on the drums was specifically what made me go "wow" in comparison to the Primare...
I am used to hearing his system with (mostly) his P3-24/DL103R and (occasionally) the Apollo.
Tomorrow (if I get time and everyone is out) I am going to swing my own (USB) DAC's cable over from my laptop system - which normally hosts my iTunes - and plug it into our own iMac to see if the 'warmth' and bass goes up a notch. This is NOT to compare my DAC with the DMagic (entirely different systems) but to see if the iMac contributes a 'thicker' more bassy sound. My iMac and my friend's iMac are very similar vintage (the very last of the white Intel Core 2 Duo 2007 machines.)
Cool. I have to say I'm surprised - not at the fact that you didn't like it - which is everybody's absolute right, obviously - but at the nature of the not-liking; timing in the bass and on the drums was specifically what made me go "wow" in comparison to the Primare...
Gerrardasnails
Well-known member
drummerman:
Are'nt you guys forgetting something? £200 RRP for a start, XLR balanced, switchable filters ... no budget player below £500 can match that.
The 'budget' giveaway is in the choice of 8740 Dac's, which impose certain limitations but thats about it. Many 'mid priced' players costing many hundred pounds more use it and, imo, don't sound significantly better. Something like the 840C is a clear step up but I honestly haven't heard anything near the price that would give the DM a fright, never mind run for money.
regards
Drummerman is spot on. I needed a solution (ideally to lose a box) and the DacMagic gave me that option. I have an amp with balanced connectivity - not many transports under £1k offer that and when I found out the price it was a no brainer to try one out. I reckon I would need to spend at least £700 to hear a dramatic difference and when I have that sort of money, I would probably go and buy a new DAC for that price and keep with the lossless files option.
It is interesting to hear a negative review of the DM but you have to be realistic - you are getting a lot for £200 and they look decent and are tiny.
Are'nt you guys forgetting something? £200 RRP for a start, XLR balanced, switchable filters ... no budget player below £500 can match that.
The 'budget' giveaway is in the choice of 8740 Dac's, which impose certain limitations but thats about it. Many 'mid priced' players costing many hundred pounds more use it and, imo, don't sound significantly better. Something like the 840C is a clear step up but I honestly haven't heard anything near the price that would give the DM a fright, never mind run for money.
regards
Drummerman is spot on. I needed a solution (ideally to lose a box) and the DacMagic gave me that option. I have an amp with balanced connectivity - not many transports under £1k offer that and when I found out the price it was a no brainer to try one out. I reckon I would need to spend at least £700 to hear a dramatic difference and when I have that sort of money, I would probably go and buy a new DAC for that price and keep with the lossless files option.
It is interesting to hear a negative review of the DM but you have to be realistic - you are getting a lot for £200 and they look decent and are tiny.
The more I understand about Hi Fi the harder it is to explain.
What is clear is the many levels of quality in the various pieces of equipment, and that the weakest link will determine the finished sound the ears will hear!
That's why the upgrade path is fraught with difficulties.
If one is comparing 'apples with oranges' it is impossible to arrive at any meaningful conclusion.
To get the open, deep, involving sound stage is the 'holy grail' that many (with deep enough pockets) spend tons of money on.
Personally I find with good pieces of kit they can be improved no end by modification. But the design needs to be excellent to start with.
A good DAC source will be seriously hampered by what it is being fed to, and giving it a good clean signal path and decent amplification etc it will be outstanding.
Spend £2k on a pre-amp and you will know what I mean.
What is clear is the many levels of quality in the various pieces of equipment, and that the weakest link will determine the finished sound the ears will hear!
That's why the upgrade path is fraught with difficulties.
If one is comparing 'apples with oranges' it is impossible to arrive at any meaningful conclusion.
To get the open, deep, involving sound stage is the 'holy grail' that many (with deep enough pockets) spend tons of money on.
Personally I find with good pieces of kit they can be improved no end by modification. But the design needs to be excellent to start with.
A good DAC source will be seriously hampered by what it is being fed to, and giving it a good clean signal path and decent amplification etc it will be outstanding.
Spend £2k on a pre-amp and you will know what I mean.
Eddie Pound:
My opinion is that the lean Apollo is offsetting the bloated Primare.
i30 bloated??? ha ha ha ha ha ha. good one.
My opinion is that the lean Apollo is offsetting the bloated Primare.
i30 bloated??? ha ha ha ha ha ha. good one.
Charlie Jefferson:JoelSim:
I'm a non-believer too (although I have nothing to base that on except for the fact my 4 wolfsons are surely better than a mid range CA DAC and iTunes nonsense).
ÿ
Maybe but they surrender in spades to the Chord DAC/Airport Express combo I've been playing for the last month or so. My Arcam CD92 is but a stilled engine of gloom. Time I put it out of it's misery.
Charlie I have a CD92 - can I ask are you refering to the £2k Chord DAC or the new Chordette Gem? (a friend of mine has the £2k Chord DAC and it's astounding). I would not expect a £900 in 2002 CD player to equal the Chord at all.
I'm a non-believer too (although I have nothing to base that on except for the fact my 4 wolfsons are surely better than a mid range CA DAC and iTunes nonsense).
ÿ
Maybe but they surrender in spades to the Chord DAC/Airport Express combo I've been playing for the last month or so. My Arcam CD92 is but a stilled engine of gloom. Time I put it out of it's misery.
Charlie I have a CD92 - can I ask are you refering to the £2k Chord DAC or the new Chordette Gem? (a friend of mine has the £2k Chord DAC and it's astounding). I would not expect a £900 in 2002 CD player to equal the Chord at all.
John Duncan
Well-known member
C'mon guys, let's not all get touchy and try to justify the DACMagic just cos it's cheap......
I'm surprised, but am not going to get excited about it - it's a means to an end afer all, and it's given me the best end I could hope for. So to speak.
I'm surprised, but am not going to get excited about it - it's a means to an end afer all, and it's given me the best end I could hope for. So to speak.
Alec
Well-known member
JohnDuncan:C'mon guys, let's not all get touchy and try to justify the DACMagic just cos it's cheap......
I'm surprised, but am not going to get excited about it - it's a means to an end afer all, and it's given me the best end I could hope for. So to speak.
But you like it. a lot. and it is (relatively) cheap...
; )
I'm surprised, but am not going to get excited about it - it's a means to an end afer all, and it's given me the best end I could hope for. So to speak.
But you like it. a lot. and it is (relatively) cheap...
; )
John Duncan
Well-known member
al7478:JohnDuncan:C'mon guys, let's not all get touchy and try to justify the DACMagic just cos it's cheap......
I'm surprised, but am not going to get excited about it - it's a means to an end afer all, and it's given me the best end I could hope for. So to speak.
But you like it. a lot. and it is (relatively) cheap...
; )
I do. A lot. And it is cheap. And it looks better than the Beresford. And I have no bass overhang. And it has blue lights, which is more than can be said for a Rega Apollo.
I'm surprised, but am not going to get excited about it - it's a means to an end afer all, and it's given me the best end I could hope for. So to speak.
But you like it. a lot. and it is (relatively) cheap...
; )
I do. A lot. And it is cheap. And it looks better than the Beresford. And I have no bass overhang. And it has blue lights, which is more than can be said for a Rega Apollo.
Charlie Jefferson
Well-known member
HDNumpty:Charlie Jefferson:JoelSim:
I'm a non-believer too (although I have nothing to base that on except for the fact my 4 wolfsons are surely better than a mid range CA DAC and iTunes nonsense).
ÿ
Maybe but they surrender in spades to the Chord DAC/Airport Express combo I've been playing for the last month or so. My Arcam CD92 is but a stilled engine of gloom. Time I put it out of it's misery.
Charlie I have a CD92 - can I ask are you refering to the £2k Chord DAC or the new Chordette Gem? (a friend of mine has the £2k Chord DAC and it's astounding). I would not expect a £900 in 2002 CD player to equal the Chord at all.
Hi HD,
Yes, it's the Chord DAC64. I've had it for a few years running alongside the Arcam CD player and it sounded great but now it's DAC-ing the Lossless files via the Airport Express it sounds altogether in another, superior league.
Sceptical friends often asked to hear the Arcam on it's own and then up against the Arcam & DAC. They heard "some" significant improvements. Now the same friends are noticing the sheer avalanche of detail readily apparent in the Lossless/DAC set up when pitched against the Arcam & DAC.
So, my conclusion is that the DAC did good things for CDs with the Arcam as the transport but it does even better things for Lossless files from the Mac via the AExpress.
It's my major hi-fi upgrade of recent years (Roksan Radius notwithstanding).
Just got to re-import half a ton of CDs into Lossless form to truly benefit.
I'm a non-believer too (although I have nothing to base that on except for the fact my 4 wolfsons are surely better than a mid range CA DAC and iTunes nonsense).
ÿ
Maybe but they surrender in spades to the Chord DAC/Airport Express combo I've been playing for the last month or so. My Arcam CD92 is but a stilled engine of gloom. Time I put it out of it's misery.
Charlie I have a CD92 - can I ask are you refering to the £2k Chord DAC or the new Chordette Gem? (a friend of mine has the £2k Chord DAC and it's astounding). I would not expect a £900 in 2002 CD player to equal the Chord at all.
Hi HD,
Yes, it's the Chord DAC64. I've had it for a few years running alongside the Arcam CD player and it sounded great but now it's DAC-ing the Lossless files via the Airport Express it sounds altogether in another, superior league.
Sceptical friends often asked to hear the Arcam on it's own and then up against the Arcam & DAC. They heard "some" significant improvements. Now the same friends are noticing the sheer avalanche of detail readily apparent in the Lossless/DAC set up when pitched against the Arcam & DAC.
So, my conclusion is that the DAC did good things for CDs with the Arcam as the transport but it does even better things for Lossless files from the Mac via the AExpress.
It's my major hi-fi upgrade of recent years (Roksan Radius notwithstanding).
Just got to re-import half a ton of CDs into Lossless form to truly benefit.
John Duncan
Well-known member
the record spot:Maybe so, but what's the knob count,eh?
(Aye but, naw but, aye but, naw but.....ad inifinitum.)
Yah, Cambridge knobs are poor, irrespective of count. I have told them this.
(Aye but, naw but, aye but, naw but.....ad inifinitum.)
Yah, Cambridge knobs are poor, irrespective of count. I have told them this.
Charlie Jefferson:HDNumpty:Charlie Jefferson:JoelSim:
I'm a non-believer too (although I have nothing to base that on except for the fact my 4 wolfsons are surely better than a mid range CA DAC and iTunes nonsense).
ÿ
Maybe but they surrender in spades to the Chord DAC/Airport Express combo I've been playing for the last month or so. My Arcam CD92 is but a stilled engine of gloom. Time I put it out of it's misery.
Charlie I have a CD92 - can I ask are you refering to the £2k Chord DAC or the new Chordette Gem? (a friend of mine has the £2k Chord DAC and it's astounding). I would not expect a £900 in 2002 CD player to equal the Chord at all.
Hi HD,
Yes, it's the Chord DAC64. I've had it for a few years running alongside the Arcam CD player and it sounded great but now it's DAC-ing the Lossless files via the Airport Express it sounds altogether in another, superior league.
Sceptical friends often asked to hear the Arcam on it's own and then up against the Arcam & DAC. They heard "some" significant improvements. Now the same friends are noticing the sheer avalanche of detail readily apparent in the Lossless/DAC set up when pitched against the Arcam & DAC.
So, my conclusion is that the DAC did good things for CDs with the Arcam as the transport but it does even better things for Lossless files from the Mac via the AExpress.
It's my major hi-fi upgrade of recent years (Roksan Radius notwithstanding).
Just got to re-import half a ton of CDs into Lossless form to truly benefit.
Wow that is amazing - and totally at odds with aforementioned mate who finds his current Sony SA/CD player a far superior transport to his squeezebox. However, he is converting his Apple Lossless files to WAVE before streaming them, as the Squeezebox can't read Apple files...
I think JD concurrs with this, in that a PC/Laptop & AE makes a very good transport...
I'm a non-believer too (although I have nothing to base that on except for the fact my 4 wolfsons are surely better than a mid range CA DAC and iTunes nonsense).
ÿ
Maybe but they surrender in spades to the Chord DAC/Airport Express combo I've been playing for the last month or so. My Arcam CD92 is but a stilled engine of gloom. Time I put it out of it's misery.
Charlie I have a CD92 - can I ask are you refering to the £2k Chord DAC or the new Chordette Gem? (a friend of mine has the £2k Chord DAC and it's astounding). I would not expect a £900 in 2002 CD player to equal the Chord at all.
Hi HD,
Yes, it's the Chord DAC64. I've had it for a few years running alongside the Arcam CD player and it sounded great but now it's DAC-ing the Lossless files via the Airport Express it sounds altogether in another, superior league.
Sceptical friends often asked to hear the Arcam on it's own and then up against the Arcam & DAC. They heard "some" significant improvements. Now the same friends are noticing the sheer avalanche of detail readily apparent in the Lossless/DAC set up when pitched against the Arcam & DAC.
So, my conclusion is that the DAC did good things for CDs with the Arcam as the transport but it does even better things for Lossless files from the Mac via the AExpress.
It's my major hi-fi upgrade of recent years (Roksan Radius notwithstanding).
Just got to re-import half a ton of CDs into Lossless form to truly benefit.
Wow that is amazing - and totally at odds with aforementioned mate who finds his current Sony SA/CD player a far superior transport to his squeezebox. However, he is converting his Apple Lossless files to WAVE before streaming them, as the Squeezebox can't read Apple files...
I think JD concurrs with this, in that a PC/Laptop & AE makes a very good transport...
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