Headphone newbie seeking recommendations

[Angle Poise-Lamp]

my question is: is it normal for £400 headphones to be more resolving and detailed than £1000+ speakers?

It’s often said that to achieve the same sound quality with speakers as headphones, you need to spend 4 times as much. Not everyone agrees though and, of course, the listening experience is very different.

 

[Fidelity dom]

Just got the HD650 today (for some bizarre reason, the HD600 will be delivered tomorrow) - first impressions are quite good.

Did a very quick A/B with my speakers (Focal Aria 906) and I think I actually prefer the Sennheiser - i can definitely hear the bass more clearly than through the speakers and despite many people talking about the HD650 being veiled, I find them and as clear as the Focal. The latter might have just a smidgen more bite though.

Anyway - as a total HP noob - my question is: is it normal for £400 headphones to be more resolving and detailed than £1000+ speakers?

Many of us are listening in sub optimal rooms, the room probably has the greatest impact on sound quality & getting it right with room treatments is not always easy with the lived practicalities of multi use spaces. Headphones take the room out of the equation & I find myself at times preferring a relatively cheap set of cans over my system speakers. I am not surprised your finding the headphones giving you more, there is a reason why recording engineers master using headphones as well as monitor speakers😀

 

[Jasonovich]

Just got the HD650 today (for some bizarre reason, the HD600 will be delivered tomorrow) - first impressions are quite good.

Did a very quick A/B with my speakers (Focal Aria 906) and I think I actually prefer the Sennheiser - i can definitely hear the bass more clearly than through the speakers and despite many people talking about the HD650 being veiled, I find them and as clear as the Focal. The latter might have just a smidgen more bite though.

Anyway - as a total HP noob - my question is: is it normal for £400 headphones to be more resolving and detailed than £1000+ speakers?

Headphones you don't have room acoustics to ruin the sound of your speakers.
Once you step up to top notch planars, you'll be blown over.

 

[Entrigo]

Thanks all. I have started down the room treatment route (wool rug, two acoustic panels at first reflection point etc) but I guess more would be needed.

Well, very interesting indeed. Have the HD600 coming today, will do a bit of comparing to see which one I prefer and return the other haha. And I since I got a £150 Richer Sounds voucher for my birthday, might even take the chosen ones to a store and compare to the Hifiman (I think RS has the Ananda). I feel the bug is already settling in my organism 😂

 

[PieterG]

Anyway - as a total HP noob - my question is: is it normal for £400 headphones to be more resolving and detailed than £1000+ speakers?

I'd say yes. Speakers depend so heavily on room interaction. Headphones are way more direct. I also agree that they are two distinct listening experiences that each have their own place.

 

[Entrigo]

I'd say yes. Speakers depend so heavily on room interaction. Headphones are way more direct. I also agree that they are two distinct listening experiences that each have their own place.

Yes definitely. I can see the benefits of both.

But knowing me, the risk is now this will further fuel my upgrade bug as I'd want to be sure my speakers are at the same level as my headphones. And as more extensive room treatment is not an option - it's a shared living space, as Fidelity dom was rightly saying - I will be looking even more keenly at better speakers 😂.

 

[Entrigo]

Seriously can't decide between the two.

The HD600 is crisp and clear and engaging but the mids and bass are a touch too light or even recessed.

The HD650 has a more satisfying bass but it's a bit "veiled" as in fact many people say.

Harrumph.

I am SERIOUSLY thinking about buying a pair of Hifiman Ananda (have a gift card, could get them for £120 all considered) and do a 3 way comparison - and have a meltdown in the process....

 

[Jasonovich]

Seriously can't decide between the two.

The HD600 is crisp and clear and engaging but the mids and bass are a touch too light or even recessed.

The HD650 has a more satisfying bass but it's a bit "veiled" as in fact many people say.

Harrumph.

I am SERIOUSLY thinking about buying a pair of Hifiman Ananda (have a gift card, could get them for £120 all considered) and do a 3 way comparison - and have a meltdown in the process....

Sounds like an excellent idea, you can always return them to the store if you don't like them.

 

[Revolutions]

Annnnd, this is the game we love so much 😁

Be really interested to see how you find the Hifiman vs Sennheiser.

 

[Entrigo]

Annnnd, this is the game we love so much 😁

Be really interested to see how you find the Hifiman vs Sennheiser.

Haha yeah

The problem with that for me is that I have a very, very bad short/working memory, so my A/Bs need to be very short and the swap over VERY quick or I won't be able to pinpoint/remember the differences...

 

[Entrigo]

Annnnd, this is the game we love so much 😁

Be really interested to see how you find the Hifiman vs Sennheiser.

Haha it is...

Yeah me too. Have confirmed via email I want to go ahead (sent a price match request which went to the telesales team...). Hopefully can do a proper shootout next week.

 

[PieterG]

But knowing me, the risk is now this will further fuel my upgrade bug as I'd want to be sure my speakers are at the same level as my headphones. And as more extensive room treatment is not an option - it's a shared living space, as Fidelity dom was rightly saying - I will be looking even more keenly at better speakers 😂.

This sounds like a very expensive trap. Your speakers may already be good enough.

Based on personal experience, i'd say the biggest sound improvements are most likely in the room, not the speakers. Mine are set up in the living room, which i know has too much open space and hard reflective surfaces. There is very little that i could still fix in that space.

With my headphones and dac/amp, there's nothing left to fix. I could buy something else that's potentially better, but that's a different story. Sure, i could buy a pair of speakers 5 times the price of my 15 year old KEFs, but i don't expect them to deliver superior sound in my flawed listening space.

Assuming i had the money and would be willing to part with it, i would build a new house, incorporate a space suited for critical music listening, and then install those Dynaudio Contour 60s 😉. Until then, i accept that my headphones produce better audio, even if the complete listening experience is better with the speakers in the flawed room (and a glass of wine, and company, ...)

 

[Jasonovich]

Headphones and speakers have a different trajectory, they offer the same desired outcomes but in a different way and rather than viewing it as opposing forces, I would say they compliment each other.

I'm much more immersed in the sound with headphones but more receptive to speakers wider projection of the music. Both different things but both amazing.

 

[Entrigo]

This sounds like a very expensive trap. Your speakers may already be good enough.

Based on personal experience, i'd say the biggest sound improvements are most likely in the room, not the speakers. Mine are set up in the living room, which i know has too much open space and hard reflective surfaces. There is very little that i could still fix in that space.

With my headphones and dac/amp, there's nothing left to fix. I could buy something else that's potentially better, but that's a different story. Sure, i could buy a pair of speakers 5 times the price of my 15 year old KEFs, but i don't expect them to deliver superior sound in my flawed listening space.

Assuming i had the money and would be willing to part with it, i would build a new house, incorporate a space suited for critical music listening, and then install those Dynaudio Contour 60s 😉. Until then, i accept that my headphones produce better audio, even if the complete listening experience is better with the speakers in the flawed room (and a glass of wine, and company, ...)

Yeah sadly I am in the same situation. I moved the speakers to a different place in the living room and added a bit of treatment (rug and two panels at first reflection points) but that's it - unless I want to risk wrecking my marriage haha.

Anyway the speakers are fine but probably not quite at the level I am building my system to. I know money is not an absolute or exact measure of quality but, for example, my turntable costs well over twice as much as the speakers. Even my phono stage costs more... So an upgrade was always going to happen. Sadly not as imminent as I had wished due to other non-hifi related expenses. But at least the headphones will satisfy my cravings for more detail for the time being!

 

[Entrigo]

Headphones and speakers have a different trajectory, they offer the same desired outcomes but in a different way and rather than viewing it as opposing forces, I would say they compliment each other.

I'm much more immersed in the sound with headphones but more receptive to speakers wider projection of the music. Both different things but both amazing.

Yes! I had never considered headphones but they are definitely carving themselves a very good place in my hifi habits.

 

[RTHerringbone]

Headphones and speakers have a different trajectory, they offer the same desired outcomes but in a different way and rather than viewing it as opposing forces, I would say they compliment each other.

I'm much more immersed in the sound with headphones but more receptive to speakers wider projection of the music. Both different things but both amazing

It's a good point, this. My main system is in a wildly compromised space but manages to sound very good in spite of positioning and reflective surfaces - one day I'll move to a more suitable house / the kids will move out and I'll steal one of their rooms to let the system really shine.

But having the options of headphones in that system or via my upstairs system has really been a total revelation for me. It sounds *really* silly, but I didn't appreciate quite what the jump would be from a single Sonos speaker to a dedicated headphone setup. Vastly different in every way, including price, but it's a galaxy of galaxies apart in terms of quality.

 

[Entrigo]

Do you know if you'd prefer / require open or closed-back? A simple generalisation is that open-back have advantages (more spacious sound) and disadvantages (sound leaks in and out).

I think there's an argument that as you cite soundstage as a requirement, then open-backed would perhaps be a better bet.

Then you have the choice between Dynamic Driver or Planar. Historically the latter were more expensive, but the rate at which models are appearing means that now last year's models are massively discounted to make them pretty comparable to DDs.

My initial thoughts would be that you may like the FiiO K11R2R which as new comes in at £150. The definition of "dry" can vary from person to person, but the R2R architecture can add some colour to the sound. It's not a particularly highly-revered architecture on sites where it and its acolytes appear to prioritise looking at graphs over listening, but I think it's an enjoyable sound.

The budget you've set for headphones is decent and you'll have loads of options, but I'd say you need to decide between those two thing: open vs. closed, and DD vs. Planar.

How things have evolved!

Should I end up keeping either the Sennheiser 600 or the Hifiman, the Fiio R2R could be a very good proposition indeed...

Already thinking of immediately flipping my Topping DX7 for another DAC head amp with line in, so I can connect to the Rega Elex-R and also listen to my vinyl through headphones (no idea why I didn't consider that option first...)

And if I go for cleaner /brighter headphones, I can definitely complement with a more musical amp. The reverse of what I was planning - matching a slightly warmer pair of headphones with a "clinical" DAC+amp. The former seems a much better idea.

 

[Gray]

And if I go for cleaner /brighter headphones, I can definitely complement with a more musical amp. The reverse of what I was planning - matching a slightly warmer pair of headphones with a "clinical" DAC+amp. The former seems a much better idea.

What's in a description of sound?
If 'musical' = good, then clean is musical.....surely 🤔

 

[Entrigo]

What's in a description of sound?
If 'musical' = good, then clean is musical.....surely 🤔

Haha yeah very good point. I opted for "musical" instead of "warm" as that's what I read in quite a few reviews of the Fiio R2Rs...

But yes, it's interesting how "coloured" sounding components are often touted as more musical.

I have always had a penchant for warm as opposed to lean and clean but am moving more and more towards a neutral sound preference

 

[Angle Poise-Lamp]

Haha yeah very good point. I opted for "musical" instead of "warm" as that's what I read in quite a few reviews of the Fiio R2Rs...

But yes, it's interesting how "coloured" sounding components are often touted as more musical.

As I have said many times before. it’s how your system sounds to you, that matters. One person’s “coloured” sound, could be another person’s “just how I want it”.

 

[Entrigo]

As I have said many times before. it’s how your system sounds to you, that matters. One person’s “coloured” sound, could be another person’s “just how I want it”.

Yeah but I am feeling the ground shifting under my feet... I had always preferred "warmer" sound signatures but in the last couple of years I am surprising myself moving a little away from it. Or indeed being more attracted by good detail retrieval and resolution. And it's not always easy to reconcile the two...